LR and Cycling

[jas_soh]

HI.... pretty new to marine tank la and now my tank in it's 4th week, expected to finish cycling this week or next week. So far i have the following LS in my tank:-

1) 4 damsels

2) 1 banded shrimp

3) 2 cleaner shrimps

4) 2 turbo snails

5) 1 sea cucumber

6) 1 choco chips starfish

7) 1 hermit crab

8) green buttons, sea pen, sea fan, blue sponge, etc.

wish to add LR to the tank yet i heard from LFS that since i have mixed 2/3 self-mixed water plus 1/3 sea water i should wait till my tank is about 2 months old before i add the LR in otherwise the tank would crash.

any advise from any of you???

thanks!!

[Achilles Tang]

Did you know that you are not supposed to have any livestock when your tank is still in the cycling stages?

Your livestock will be under tremendous stress as they try to cope with elevated ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels... surprised that they haven't all died yet... especially the sea cuke and shrimps.

I don't know which LFS you went to that gave you such bad advice... you should have read up and researched on your own as LFS advice is generally proven unreliable.

Your LR should have been added during the cycling stage. You mean to say that you don't have any LR but you already have livestock in there??

Do you know that LR is a critical element in your tank's biological filtration system?

Bet you don't... so can I suggest that you read up as much as you can immediately? Do a search on the pinned up links... or use the search key... all this info is there already... !

Get test kits for your water parameters... top priority... and report back.

And can you show us a photo of your tank now?

[metals99]

sigh..

please save the shrimps give back to lfs etc. orelse they will die or sell them to out reef people here some with cycled and a 'ready' tank would sure buy from u.. anyway please start slowly.. i only dare to put my liverock in my 'empty' tank 3 months after and then let it cycle for another 3 more months...

the bacteria is not strong.. if not given time..

[jas_soh]

i tested all water parameters daily from Day 1 to Day 14 and nitrite, amonia and pH was all acceptable before i added the fish. din use LR as i only used base coral rocks. all the live stocks have lived in my tank for the past 2 weeks or so and growing bigger each day. i think my nitrite level again shot up only after the fish and the shrimps were added. BTW, they were added only 4-5 days after the fish were added. can't be that bad right????

[jas_soh]

For easy reference, i add the water parameters.

Day 10 - added fish

NH3= 0

NO2=0

PH=7.5-8.0

temp=29deg

salinity =1.022

(has it finished cycling?)

Day 15 - added all others

NH3= 0-0.1

NO2=0.5

PH=8.0

temp=29deg

salinity=1.022

i suspect my tank is having its second cycling now?? currently my NO2 is reading about 0.5 still.

[Achilles Tang]

You are still registering nitrites? NO2 is toxic to livestock. This shows that your cycling is not over yet.

Your introduction of livestock is adding ammonia into the system and your different bacteria that processed nitrites to nitrates isn't established yet to cope with this load. If your bacteria that processes ammonia isn't established enough... you may be heading for a crash.

What I suggest you do is to pass your livestock to someone with an established tank or a LFS... put in your LR immediately... and wait for the cycle to fully complete.... before putting back your livestock.

[jas_soh]

okayz... i would try to put in LR asap.. DANKS!

[jas_soh]

BTW, does what can the NITRATE test show? can it show the existence of bacteria in the tank or something? is it really necessary???

[Achilles Tang]

?? A nitrate test kit or any test kit for that matter... is suppose to measure certain chemical, organic, ionic or metal components in the test water.

So a nitrate test kit reports what the nitrate level is in your test water.

Using ammonia/nitrite/nitrate test kits will verify that your tank's biological filtration aka via bacterial processes is working/ready or not working/ready.

[oshkosh]

Get test kits for your water parameters... top priority... and report back.

And can you show us a photo of your tank now?

Damn fierce. A waste if you are not in the military service.

Hey, we may be jumping the gun here. Jas has his LS in the tank for about 2 weeks now. If his tank is not properly cycled, the bioload from all the LS should have started the cycle by now.

The fact that NH3 and NO2 are still low shows that the bacteria in the tank are able to cope. Anyways, most of your current LS can take the low NH3 and NO2. Long term exposure will result in death of LS.

Lets not be so hasty about fishing out all the LS. Check your parameters daily. If NH3 and NO2 goes up further, you'd better have a backup to place your LS.

On another note, you might want to remove your LS if you are going to put in your LRs soon.

By doing so, you can prevent accidentally crushing the life out of your LS and new LRs tend to kick off another mini cycle, that can kill your LS.

One way to prevent the mini cycle is to quarantine any new LRs in another tank. I put my new LRs in a quarantine tank for up to 3 weeks.

Hope that helps.

Good luck.

[Achilles Tang]

Gee... did I come across as fierce?

I don't see why I am overeacting aka jumping gun.

He is still obviously in a cycle, evidenced by detectable levels of NO2. A cycled tank should have undectectable ammonia and nitrites and very low nitrates. A matured tank should have none of the above.

Why wait on fishing out the LS? A stitch in time saves nine... especially now that the seams are have already broken.

I said to remove the LS because he intends to put in LR and it'll make the cycle worse and longer coz the dieoff from uncured LR is certain to kill off his still surviving LS.

[jas_soh]

thanks OSHKOSH!!! urm, ya, have to agree that the previous advice sounds a little military and harsh but i pressume that comes with good intention...kekeek....

yup, i am measuring the water parameters daily (!!!) and the NH3 remains low low, guess my skimmer is doing its job pretty well...

as for my livestocks they all seem very active and happy so far. no fighting or bitting one another, apart from my skunk shrimps having its feelings being "trimmed" by the boxing shrimp occassionally....!! i would bear in mind no more adding of LS till the nitrite levels drops to zero.

intending to get some 8-10kg of LR and quarantine them for abt 2 weeks before adding them into the tank. as i have a piece of buttons in my tank, i suppose that's consider LR too, right??? my base rocks are also growing green and purplish algae at a considerable rate. brown alages are also growing but my snails shall keep them under control.

anyway, thanks for your advice!!!

[Achilles Tang]

Hahaha... okie...sorrie for being fierce... I just want you to realise proper reef husbandry is important as bad habits die hard.... so you have to learn the basics and the right way. Some people may get away with a shorter cycle or have livestock that survives the cycling process, but SRC has to advocate conscientious reefkeeping as far as possible and this is the first step.

Newbies should follow the tried and tested way or be doomed to waste time and money and avoid needlessly killing livestock.

I definitely have good intentions....

Admiral AT

[jas_soh]

Hahaha... okie...sorrie!

Admiral AT

no prob at all....... aiyo. ..

[Shark]

Hi Jas,

how big is your tank . .

suspect that your have a large one . .. .

[jas_soh]

Hi Jas,

how big is your tank . .

suspect that your have a large one . .. .

nope.... not a big one. 2x1x1

[oshkosh]

I just want you to realise proper reef husbandry is important as bad habits die hard.... so you have to learn the basics and the right way. Some people may get away with a shorter cycle or have livestock that survives the cycling process, but SRC has to advocate conscientious reefkeeping as far as possible and this is the first step.

Good point Admiral.

No short cuts here.

[Achilles Tang]

So small? Seriously, I suggest you do a water change soon as it will prevent a buildup of nitrites accumulating to deadly levels, enough to finally push your LS over the edge. You're kinda lucky enough as it is.

[jas_soh]

i suppose my LS still manage to handle cuz i change 10-15% water every 5 days or so.... lol.

[Achilles Tang]

Ah so neh.... you left that out...

Good job then... once your cycle is complete... you don't have to do weekly water changes, maybe once every 2 weeks since you have a small tank. Bigger tanks generally can get away with lesser water changes (provided they are setup right).

I know some reefer who hasn't changed water in a year!

[jas_soh]

Ah so neh.... you left that out...

Good job then... once your cycle is complete... you don't have to do weekly water changes, maybe once every 2 weeks since you have a small tank. Bigger tanks generally can get away with lesser water changes (provided they are setup right).

I know some reefer who hasn't changed water in a year!

there comes my next question!!!

perhaps i should change 20-30% of the water instead of 15? that would help to reduce the nitrite levels but dunoe if it is harmful to my LS....

[Achilles Tang]

20% should be less stressful than 30%, and your LS will adapt faster.

IMO, smaller percentage but regular changes is less stressful than larger percentage changes done after a longer time.

[chinmo]

hi guys, the water i gonna use for water change, can use straight from the tap or nt? or must leave over night?

[oshkosh]

hi guys, the water i gonna use for water change, can use straight from the tap or nt? or must leave over night?

It would be better to leave the water for a while.

Some leave it overnight, (I do that). Some reefers prefer to leave it for a couple of days. If you do that, remember to aerate your water.

Chorine will evaporate from the water if you give it time.

Cheers.

[jas_soh]

i use my tap water and dropped a few crystal of declorinator..... that acts reall reall fast man..... u may like to try it.