Starting a nano tank

[Firestarz]

Hi!

Would need some help here. I think some of u might hav read abt me wanting to start off with a 96G tank.

But after some considerations i will b starting with a 18G tank as my parents r not convince enough to allow me to hav a big tank.

I visited the LFF at pasir ris farmway 2 earlier on n my mum is convinced that a small setup is alot easier then a big one ( as mentioned by the LFF owner ). He tried to sell me his nanocube ($188) n said i dun need skimmer, chiller, n that the nanocube in stock would b alrite with weekly water change using NSW. BTW he even said that if the corals dun survive after a few months y not juz replace it with a new piece n that really got on my nerves. I mean corals r also a life form n we shld all do our best to maintain it in good health.

Juz wondering if any of u hav comments on this n can help me out in starting my hobby.

After reading some of the nano tank posts, i also noticed that most owners even hav a sump, skimmer, chiller in their setup. I hav dawn up the design for the tank as i would like to custom make one instead of using a nanocube as i find it very riggid n future expansions would b very difficult.

I would like advice on whether i should expand the size of the design a little more to make it a 24G or mayb a 30G. By the way i hav also included an overflow compartment in my tank idea which will lead to a sump at the bottom of the tank.

If possible i would also like some reccommandations on skimmers n chillers n also other equipments i should invest on to create a successful nano setup.

Would like to thank everyone in advance.

[Firestarz]

By the way i m planning to keep soft corals. and if possible i would also like to keep some clams. There will also b fishes.

[Qxnviolet]

Sorry cant help u much here...i dun have an overflow nor a sump. Which LFS did you go to? The one who told u to change ur corals when they die every mth? Pretty irresponsible in my mind....

[Firestarz]

The farm in pasir ris farmway 2.. Eh .. tahts beside the point.

Can anyone help me out with my question?

[nicholas_yeo]

hi firestarz

Small tank doesn't means easier by the way. In fact, it is much harder to maintain its parameters since a little spike like dead fish can send the nitrate / ammonia all the way up or a overdose of iodine can be deadly to invert....

In my personal opinion (I have 2 nano, 10G and 45G), Nano can be tougher than the next size which is a 3ft tank. Reason is u can house more proper equipment like skimmers, reactors, etc to maintain your parameter plus any 'wrongdoing' wont crash your tank since it is potent in small tanks.

If u really want to start this hobby, it is my personal belieft u can start at a 2ft tank like most pple do here. It is always better to have sump since it allows u to install equipment and increase your load / capacity. Make it tidy as well.

The LFS can be right on just do wkly change to maintain tank condition but that doesn't mean it is easier. Check this link out on the guys 2ft tank and read some of the threads from fellow reefers. It is crucial u understand it better b4 u embark on this. Otherwise, the result usually is a costly one.

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/index.htm

But it is critical u pick a good salt like Marine environment or something else and use DI or RO water to mix.

[Firestarz]

Thanks alot.

Yea .. i m intending to hav a sump with skimmer. the sump should b of abt 1/2 the capacity of the main tank so as to increase the total water vol.

Yea .. i m oso intending to add in a chiller n might wanna use MH lights I know this might b a little overkill but i m actually intending to add clams after a while.

alot ppl.

[cityofangels]

I totally agree with nicholas_yeo. Contrary to what most people think, nanos are infact harder to keep than larger tanks. It is harder to maintain water conditions in nanos as any spike in ammonia, nitrite or nitrate may result in a tank crash, as compared to a larger tank.

I often find it hard to believe a saltwater tank can be kept without a skimmer. In my personal opinion, in order to keep a marine tank in the long run (without considerable losses to your fishes/corals), a skimmer is a must.

[Maxstar81]

I'm by no means experienced but IMO,

since U are keeping softies & in future clams,

why do U need skimmer ??? If U skim away

all the food that U dose then no point liao....

They need nutrients leh. Dun need so clean

water. If U wanna get some exp. w/ clams,

get a squamosa. Its doing ok in my tank.

I only have T5 HO and fan. No MH or chiller.

(click my tank link & its on pg 8.)

Hope U have fun !!!

I have contact to tank maker if U need.

If interested, pls pm.

[FuEl]

Proper introduction of livestock is a must for nano tanks. Make sure the livestock don't outgrow their tanks, which is really common during the Luohan saga. Stick to small species and introduce slowly and you should be fine. If you are introducing coral, make sure it is not attached to large pieces of liverock which can easily contribute to an ammonia spike. Frags of soft corals and hard corals work better in this sense. Don't overstock either as the parameters in nano tanks fluctuates greatly. As for the skimming, I believe you can get away with your weekly water change as long as you don't overfeed and overstock.

[Firestarz]

Thanks alot bros n sis!

Yea .. will b doing weekly water change. Will need lots of help in the future.

Looking for a tank maker now. N the tank should b cycling by feb.

[mUAr_cHEe]

FINALLY!! SOMEONE WHO DOES HIS RESEARCH AND KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING.

Glad to see that you are on the right track even before you started.

First of all, you must know what you want to keep.

Fishes only? No need chiller, no need powerful lights, no need reactors. i.e. Calcium reactor, kalk reactor.

Reef. Fans would be minimal, slightly better lights. i.e. t5s. Maybe can start dosing and a klak reactor or dosing kalk should be minimal.

SPS. This one everything must double. Powderful lights, Big chiller, bigger skimmer, all the reactors, even nuclear reactors!

Don't be scared to try SPS if you really like it. SPS do not need a matured tank, IMHO. They just need a responsible owner. Can try the hardier one first, like acroporas.

Feel free to ask us, or pm me if you need more advice.

If you are girl, we can arrange for a private one to one lesson. More attention can be given this way.

Otherwise, if you are a guy, PM will do nicely. Thank you very much.

[iantoh]

Hi there Firestarz,

great work with the research before embarking on your new system. to contribute to your new well planned nano, i shall make you a kalk dripper!! hahah...that is, if youd like one.

i used to run a goniopora nano, in a custom made tank, so id have some stuff you could use i think. plus if youve designed your tank already, i know a tank maker who can do it for a decent price. hes done both my previous and present tanks, and ive been quite happy with them.

like bro fuel mentioned, try to avoid corals that come on large rock surfaces, or if you do, try to chip the coral's base off the rock that it came on, then superglue it to the tanks rock work, cause flow is a really important aspect to marine systems, and an open rockscape might be more suited to a nano, (to allow water movement) rather than having large cumbersome rockpieces to impede flow.

if youre interested in xenia frags, pm me ya. i also have an oceanfree six fan set you can have if youre planning on going the fans route for temperature control. i found with my old nano that kalk does well for alk and ca supplementation if you dont keep too many calcifying corals, and the fan does its part in allowing you to add more kalk by evaporating more.

cheers,

ian

[Firestarz]

Wow! U ppl r great man. Thanks Loads.

Haha .. Muar-chee .. i m a guy Yea .. will PM u if i need more help.

Thanks Ian .. one of my friend hav alrdy gave me a 4 fan set as he stopped his hobby as he will b furthering his studies overseas. But i would prefer having a chiller as the tank would b beside my living room TV n i wouldnt want too much water evaporation in that area. Yea .. Will surely PM u for the frags when my tank is ready.

By the way r sea fans considered SPS n r they difficult to keep? They do look really nice when they bloom.

One more questions here. Wad is the reccommanded return flow from my sump tank be?

ppl .. really nice of u guys to help me out

[dreamzcape]

really nice to see the reading up being done. however if any points are not being understood, i'm sure many will be willing to post their ideas and opinions! personally im not sure what sea fans would be under but just some comments to add.

Bigger tank better(compare peeing in bathtub to peeing in the pool, which is more gross,basically dilution factor)

If you can go for a sump, by all means, can fit more equipment and hide in cabinet, prettier and more space of stuff.

Skimmer is definitely helps alot but it also depends on your reefing habits. IMO i think equipment is there to help us and also cushion our laziness. Currently i'm running a 9 gallon without skimmer...small tank easier to change water.

Equipment as above, depends on how hardworking u are, the more efficient(most've the time expensive) the equipment, the larger cushion u have in case something goes wrong(like if fish suddenly dies). But one thing i've learnt is that research your equipment too and don't be afraid to break the bank initially, you will save more money than buying cheap stuff first and then keep upgrading.

[dreamzcape]

As muar chee has stated, your livestock choice also affects ur equipment alot, more commonly is the lights+temperature area.

You said you'd go probably go mh and chiller, i suggest u do get these from the start, makes your options very flexible. It's ok to be abit singaporean and be kiasu about everything, equipment are life preservers and over killing won't be an issue.

In fact, i think it's very hard to overskim unless you're really very hardcore so your clams will have trace nutrients....unless u want to practise having skimming intervals(some people do that after they dose additives, scared the minerals get skimmed away).

You will see alot of other people's views and at times they will clash, but most importantly just read what you can and decide what's best for your system, no 2 systems are the same.

[iantoh]

your return flow from your sump to display should be as high as your overflow is able to handle. that is, you cant pump your return faster than your overflow can allow water to flow to the sump, because if you did this, your display tank would overflow its sides. But if your return is low, you wont have good overturn rates, and the water and wastes from the creatures in your display wont reach the skimmer or FR frequently enough to be skimmed out.

well, i hope i havent made you more confused. for a guage, if your display is about 20 to 30g, try out a rio14, 17, or 20Hf for return. at least 3000L/Hr because you must take into account that alot of pressure will be lost in the vertical distance it takes to pump from your sump to display. a correctly rated 3000L/Hr pump will only be pumping about 1200L/Hr out of the display at average sump and display height differences.

also, if you get a bigger pump, like the 20Hf, and attach a gate valve ($6) to the pump before it goes to the PVC pipes, you can adjust the return flow rates as you like, without having to do costly pump changes, etc. if you find that after adding some creature that prefers low flow, you can lower the return rates, vice-versa. also, you can up the return flow should you realise your overflow is able to handle more than you expected it to.

in short, get a bigger pump better, and add a gate or ball valve type thing to the pipings going to the display.

[Firestarz]

Thanks dreamscape

I wouldnt wanna overkill my skimmer as read most ppl saying that over skimming wouldnt b good as well. Might settel for a small skimmer. any reccommandations on skimmers?

[dreamzcape]

i'll do a short summary of ian's reply(don't mind yea ian?)

Tank to Sump(overflow): the flowrate would depend on your return pump flowrate. By law of conservation of mass(lol i couldn't resist it),whatever water u put into the tank will be whatever overflows.

However all overflows are not equal and have a maximum(where return is more than overflow and tank floods) hence you must find that maximum, overshoot it and then control with a valve

[dreamzcape]

just a numerical example, assuming u buy a good 3000lph pump which gives u 1200lph at height of 1 metre(lousier pumps find it harder to cope with pressure diff so they might be 700-900lph at 1 metre).

u fix the return pump with gate valve, and find that ur tank is level is gradually rising hence use the valve and slowly decrease the amount of water until it tank level stabilises. When it first stablises, ur overflow max will be around there.

[Firestarz]

thanks for the summary. I think i catch wad it means.

Okies .. time to source for equipments.

[dreamzcape]

Thanks dreamscape

I wouldnt wanna overkill my skimmer as read most ppl saying that over skimming wouldnt b good as well. Might settel for a small skimmer. any reccommandations on skimmers?

no problem man...this kinda thing everyone has their own idea...skimmers depending on whether u're definitely going for sump or not coz there are hangon skimmers too.so i think it's best u declare hangon or not, intending to use ozone or not and budget for it. Alot of things can be said about skimmers...in fact alot of equipment...hardcore discussions on which is better and such

[mUAr_cHEe]

Sea fan is opposite of SPS.

Sea fan need heavy-nutrient water. Alot of plankton and stuff in the water.

SPS need the-lower-the-better-nutrient water. Almost nothing in the water except salt. Clean, pristine water.

As for the other advice, the rest beat me to it...

its nice to give out advice again, rather than deal with the monkey show going on in the nonsense sub-forum.

[Firestarz]

Lol. Thanks again muar-chee n dreamzcape.

i juz finished calculating the total volume of my tank with sump n it amounts to around 130liters or 35G. ( hope its still considered a nano tank )

Is it alrite if i use macro KS-100P which is rated for skimming up to 300L ? If its too powerful i can also consider switching it off when i m feeding like what dreamzcape suggested.

Really grateful to u guys out there.

[dreamzcape]

lol firestarz the nano definition i think comes only with ur display tank gallons but it is after all a definition. imagine a pico tank with mabbe a 100 gallon sump...some think its cheating, some think its safe, some think its crazy.

anyway about equipment...most of the time the rating give is overrated + the fact many people do overstock, pushing the equipment rating even lower. hence i think given all the plus and minus i think a macro with 300-500L rating should be fine even if u leave it on 24/7.

[Firestarz]

Cool.!

Thanks alot dreamzcape.

Yea .. its super crazy for a pico with a 100G .. Must as well make the 100G into the main display.

Yea .. i think i hav settled on the macor skimmer, juz checked the price with bio-ocean, it costs a little below $100 together with pump. quite affordable.

Plus CNY is coming round the corner .. Rejoice!

i see some light to me getting the new tank up n cycling by feb.

Be sure to keep a lookout for my tank topic in the near future.