Safety Concern!

[seamonkee]

I am not sure if this is something we should all be concerned of... (Well, it could happen to your kid if u bring them along during one of your LFS trip)

I went to a few LFS recently and see tha few of them carrying blue-ring octopus!!!

Those fellows can kill!!!! Though they are safely placed in individual containers (with holes) but I see some LFS recklessly putting them in lower decks of tanks where children can easily reach and grab these containers... (they still can sting through those holes man!)

This is serious! I actually saw a person (looks like a newbie to me) picking one container up and I screamed across and asked him to put it back down!!! The LFS owner just sheepishly said blue ring octopus though venomous is not enoff to kill.. Bullshit!@)(*&#!$. When I told them how venomous they are, the owner's partner (i think its the wife) scolded him upside down for also not warning her... I presumed she was the one asked by the owner to place them in the tank... hahaha... really a good laugh when I see the owner being screamed at....

The owner went on and defended that if venomous fishes like lionfishes can be placed this way in many other LFS, why not blue rings???

Talking about that, I have also witness some of the irresponsible LFS placing their lionfishes on lower decks where children can touch these fishes... Maybe they ran out of space to place them in view of the high stock turnover but still I think it is irresponsible....

I have also seen better LFS place their lionfishes on higher decks... this is something highly commendable...

Lionfish though venomous, still can inflict a painful sting... BLUE RING OCTOPUS!!! MY GOD!!! I can't imagine if they papers where to flash someday that one kid or someone got killed at an irresponsible LFS shop. Seriously, these LFS needs to be really educated, man!

[seamonkee]

I just realised I got lots of typo errors... apologies, but when I typed this, I was fuming mad So didn't really do a spellcheck...

Pardon hor, AT... I know u have been encouraging a better standard in our language when posting...

[williammuk]

Which LFS?

I thought it is illegal to carry Blue Ring Octopus?

[Bob]

Yeah! which LFS

Never seen real live one before.Would like to view them.

[seamonkee]

That's what I thought too! They are illegal right?

It is definitely blue ring octopus!!! I recognised it very well...

Somemore the LFS puts up tag somemore (Blue Ring Octopus $35)...

Already see two LFS actively selling them....

[Golden Tooth]

My In-law saw it too. Once, he ever asked me if he could buy n put it in my tank.

[Tanzy]

I'm quite sure AVA will be interested to know which LFs sells them. I think it's even illegal to possess them.

[Achilles Tang]

The problem with Blue Ring Octopuses is that they are not that easy to ID. Unless very disturbed and flashing its flourescent blue rings, any customs officer will think it's just an ordinary brown baby octopus.

IMO, blue rings should be banned... it's an accident just waiting to happen. I am actually surprised it hasn't happened yet.

Your incident is not new. Since I started reefing, I have come across a few incidents where reefers have told me about them having to 'save' people by screaming at them not to touch or buy BR octupuses out of ignorance.

[FuEl]

Blue ring octopus wun sting thru the holes in the container..their suckers are harmless. It is the mouthpart a.k.a the beak you have to beware of.

Anyway....$35 for a blue ring octopus? I saw somewhere selling for $10. At least that aquarium boss was responsible enough not to sell it to newbies. But....$35?!?!!?!? Sold by an irresponsible aquarium owner!?!?! That really pisses me too...imagine you pay $25 more and end up dead. I think if that happened to me I would haunt the guy for the rest of his life.

Tanzy>> I agree with you...but the problem with A*A is that they spend their resources doing the most futile things when they can focus their efforts on the big picture. If you ask me...I would say they are banning many many harmless animals...while they are turning a blind eye to many other harmful animals besides the blue ring octopus. Take the common terrapins in petshops for instance..not banned till now...see how many are in the ecosystems here now...decimating the fragile aquatic life. Sometimes I really wonder if they know anything at all.

[FuEl]

Hope I don't sound too antangonistic. But it's the fact. Even doctors think the same.

[hoppinghippos]

fuel: I think its easier said than done. its easy for us to take the "academic" view and sit back and criticise AV*, but you think its easy for them to just enforce everything? take terrapins, I agree totally they are being dumped in our local water ways like nobody's business, but AV* can't just ban them or restrict the sales, imagine how much effort and $$$ will go into enforcing it, esp since its so common and easy to import in. and there are gazillions LFS. you need a police force to check on every shop, plus public tip offs. and for every creature brought into the enforcement list of restricted sales, more $$$ Kah-ching, man power, etc is chalked up. and there are gazilion animals too not just fishes, so imagine how long a list it would be if AV* got very strict.

seamonkee: I agree totally with you. I think its very irresponsible of LFS owners to sell BRO, its like selling drugs, cuz it may kill over time. so LFS are kinda like selling death man!! even the most experienced reefer may be careless one day. and I think its the bite that is poisonous not the tentacles per se.

[Achilles Tang]

I think public education is the key factor here. Just like most people know that vipers or cobras are deadly. If the newbie marine LFS people don't even know... how are they supposed to educate the public or safeguard the public by not putting them where its easily accessible?

Let's continue to do our part to educate people... in a humble way of course!

[Chris]

Fuel is right about the terrapin thingy but enforcing and checking these things can be tricky.

At present, I'm worried about the new defunct LH craze. The repercussion of this failed fad is the increasing number of abandon LH in rivers and lakes. Already, I can clearly see them swimming in the canal that I used to jog past. These fast breeding and tough fish will muscle out the resident small fishes and cause an ecological imbalance in our waters. Soon, we may not be able to catch shrimps or guppy or mollies in ponds anymore.

[marinebetta]

Worried about LH? Well, I just saw that they are selling nile perches in LFS now......now that's a worry if they get into the environment!

[zephyros]

Some more info from www.barrierreefaustralia.com

General Information:

With a beak that can penetrate a wet-suit, they are one little cute creature to definitely look at BUT Don't touch.

The bite might be painless, but this octopus injects a neuromuscular paralysing venom. The venom contains some maculotoxin, a poison more violent than any found on land animals. The nerve conduction is blocked and neuromuscular paralysis is followed by death. The victim might be saved if artificial respiration starts before marked cyanosis and hypotension develops. The blue-ringed octopus is the size of a golf ball but its poison is powerful enough to kill an adult human in minutes. There's no known antidote. The only treatment is hours of heart massage and artificial respiration until the poison has worked its way out of your system.

The venom contains tetrodotoxin, which blocks sodium channels and causes motor paralysis and occasionally respiratory failure. Though with fixed dilated pupils, the senses of the patients are often intact. The victims are aware but unable to respond.

First Aid

First aid for blue-ringed octopus bites

Pressure-immobilization is a recommended first aid. Prolonged artificial respiration may also be required. May require supportive treatment including mechanical ventilation until the effects of the toxin disappear. There is no antivenin available in Australia.

Mouth to mouth resuscitation can keep the victim alive and the poison gradually wears off after 24 hrs, apparently leaving no side effects.

Below is a pic

[FuEl]

Hai...by rights they should cut the red-tape over those species that have no ability to populate our local ecosystems. And restrict the species that are adaptable and prolific. I once emailed them on the import of TEMPERATE species...they replied saying that it would be dangerous if they entered our ecosystems. Now...how would that be possible? Could they even survive past a day?

Wow zephyros..nice information... Tetrodotoxin...same as the one found in puffer fish? No wonder no antivenom.

[FuEl]

Oh yes...abit

Anyone who likes freshwater cichlids? There is a breeding population of South American Eartheaters in Macritchie Reservoir. Best to go at night...can catch them by the banks.

[seamonkee]

If people release LHs into lakes now that the trend is over, shouldn't we worry if newbies start releasing these BROs into our shores? Hopefully, they can't survive in our waters, man!

[Achilles Tang]

You can BRO in Singapore waters.

[seamonkee]

Er, AT... you mean to say there's already recorded sightings of BROs in our waters?

[Achilles Tang]

Extracted from this yahoo on BRO in Singapore waters

"....In total three casualties have been reported, of which two have been in Australia and one in Singapore. The danger is nevertheless that present in Australia that in certain regions there are special signs saying "Danger - Blue Ring Octopuses". In fact it is not well known, whether all species of the genus are dangerous, as not all of them have been researched so far and some species regularly are handled with by humans without any known casualties."

I have no idea how old this article is.... so perhaps the above info on BRO danger is outdated?

[seamonkee]

I know there's a case involving a boy in the early 80s... and that's the only one case in Singapore. (so could be it...)

What I understand, they suspect the BRO but never really confirm it...

Yup, I agreed with u, AT... BROs should be banned in Singapore. We are just waiting for another incident like this to happen...

BTW, I went to the LFS just nowand found that it was raided by A*A yesterday, the BROs and some other stuff were confiscated... someone must have already informed AVA...

[Achilles Tang]

Huh? Really...man... I smell trouble coming.

I hope that LFS got their license from AVA before they carry marine LS, coz if they didn't, it's their own fault for trying. Actually, during the Nemo craze, a lot of LH LFS were fined for carrying marine fishes.

[seamonkee]

Yup. I hope so too... from the looks of it, the man was real grumpy today... could be bad... Anyway, on a personal note, serve him right too...

[Tanzy]

There's without a doubt that AVA personal are among the SRC members and reading the posts.