Sand sifting critters

[dreamzcape]

In light of my coming 2ft nano setup, I'm pondering a BB or DSB setup. One thing that has got me wondering is that for a DSB, or any SB for instance, if i introduce a sand sifting starfish for instance, will it reduce the pod population which would then affect my DSB's performance? Tried WWM and Sgreef's old posts but found nothing.

Feel free to express any view!

[FuEl]

I seriously doubt a sandshifting seastar is fast enough to catch copepods or even amphipods. Perhaps the only thing it could feed on is detritus (which will indirectly affect your pod population) or burrowing worms. You might want to consider a sand dollar too.

The advantage that DSB used to have over BB is nitrate export. But due to new technology (better skimmers, denitrators etc), people can use BB while still maintaining negligible nitrate levels.

The answer to whether you should go for a BB or DSB setup would lie in the fish or invertebrates you wish to keep. Some fish do need a sandbed (Jawfish, etc). Sandbeds normally result in a more productive ecosystem. You could always utilize a shallow sand bed for aesthetic purposes or to satisfy your livestock, while avoiding the cons of a DSB.

Then again for a typical 2ft tank a DSB would take up alot of height. It might be more feasible to go for aggressive skimming or frequent water changes due to the small tank volume.

[dreamzcape]

thanks fuel for your insight...was just wondering about whether the starfish will affect the pod population directly through predation. Right now what i'm considering is trying BB for awhile...then if i don't think it's suitable then i'll add the sandbed. In terms of live stock to keep, i am probably not gonna be keeping gobies and blennies that require a sand bed but more free swimming fishes. In fact, if i manage to keep circulation well enough to have the detritus free floating and not clogging the sandbed, i'd rather not have the starfish there =)

However over time definitely pod population will go down due to fishes eating them right? in that case won't that eventually cause sandbed clumping? Does singapore sell sandbed recharge kits or the best way is still to have a refugium to culture copepods?

[zephyros]

specific fish find their foods in their "destinied" column.

Upper water (and floating) column, suspension (middle/low) column

and sand. <<< this is my observation and classification ONLY

u dun get fish feeding out of their area, ie u dun find a goby that sticks

to the sand swim all the way up to to eat somethind near the surface.

U also dun find suspesion feeder digging/searching the sandbed for food.

so unless u have something like dragonets or ur pods swim into the open

area to be eaten

cheers

[cci[RR]us]

I seriously doubt a sandshifting seastar is fast enough to catch copepods or even amphipods.

Here's a good read on DSB: http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU ADD "SAND-SIFTING" ANIMALS SUCH AS BURROWING SEA STARS OR SOME GOBIES. These animals are "sifting" the sediment to eat the sand critters that you need to have thrive.

I have quoted the sentiments of Ronald L. Shimek, Ph. D., fyi.

[dreamzcape]

zephyros, i understand what you mean...but i'm sure there are fishes that feed from every column. like my ocellaris i do see them pecking on the sandbed quite often, not sure whether it's just small pieces of food or they whacking the pods.

ccirrus, thanks for the link. Have read it before, forgot almost all about it. Will read through again =)

[Kelmen]

Except that Dr Ron stated sand-sifting sea cucumbers are consider "safe" for DSB.

I believe sand-sifting snails would be safe too, like fighting counch.

I think the main star of DSBs are the worms. The pods can survive even on LR, except burrowing worms need the SB specifically.

As one bro recommended, small tank best go with BB.

[dreamzcape]

Kelmen, was that a full post? sorry to ask coz starting with "Except" sounds like you had more to say before that

Anyway, I believe many bros have many views, some say DSB some say BB some say SSB for aesthetics but still must vacuum. What i'm trying to achieve is as natural a system as possible, that i guess would mean DSB but at the same time DSB also has it's own set of pros and cons.

So the point of this thread is basically to ask if sand sifting starfish destroy the biodiversity of a healthy sand bed. Specifially starfish coz i know mandarins do prey on the pod population but i wasn't sure of starfish.

[Kelmen]

My feedback is following the prev post of mys (yours lah)

Well, if its specifically about the sand sifting starfish, I'm kind of confuse as well.

If I not mistaken, I been recently come across threads on Dr Ron, there's a mention of "sand-burrowing starfish" basically no good, in simple, keep them away from your "reef" tank.

But I also have some recalls that surface sand sifting starfish is not that bad, good to keep the surface aerated and clean of bacteria.

Maybe the bad one is the one digging "into" your SB.

I would suggest a better and further clarification from Dr Ron.

pai seh me also blur blur liao . The correct answer would usually need one to specify the species name, not common name.

[Kelmen]

As regards pods population concern, IMO the fishs (dragonet, goby, wrasse) will be the main concern, not those invertebrate like starfish or etc.

IMO, you can be rest assure no big harm from invertebrate onto your pods, if you have the "right" type of fishs in your tank.

The DSB concern is worm-terminator.

[dreamzcape]

hmmz...ok...maybe if get a starfish whose characteristic is to only clean surface sand that may be a good thing.

Anyway just read the DSB article, which mainly states we have to recharge our sand beds not due to predation but more due to the small sandbeds being unable to support pod reproduction over a long period of time. Hence, does anywhere in Singapore sell sandbed recharge kits?

[zephyros]

Not sure if those "live" sand that cost more than 100 bucks per bag is

what u r looking for???

[dreamzcape]

nopenope not those kind zehpyros, i think in the US they sell small packages of tiny critters for the use of simple recharging sandbed. Not those live sand big big bag