Animal trade in Sg

[FuEl]

Remember the time cats were being culled?

Or that only some dogs are allowed in HDBs?

Or the recent rumour that huskies might be banned in Sg?

Or even the "hush-hush" subject on reptiles or other exotic pets?

Or even the apparent favouritism of some breeds over others?

Or the permit of sale of some animals for economical benefit with disregards to the environment?

Whatever your thoughts..air them here for all to read!

[andysho]

Well , i just hope public will not abuse those stray cats and dogs

and AVA will not have culling session here and then

Those dogs and cats deserve a chance to live ~~~

Sometimes i cant just stand some ppl after seeing a dog

scream like crazy ~~ as if a tiger just walked pass

So if humans chopping bodies here and then now,

Wat about culling of humans >?

In Singapore , bascially pets are just treated like toys

by many home owners

I think the law being apply to to those animals abuser are too light

Well if anyone just treat pets as a toy , then i think it sounds better to buy

some stuff toy and hug it all day and night

Are there animals right in singapore?

[Terryz_]

I just feel that some of the restrictions that AVA carry out is somewhat unreasonable...

Like cannot have a dog weighing more than 10kg in a HDB apartment...

And can hand carry 30 fish in SG but cannot have water more than 3 litres... Weird..

Will get sued anot huh... lol...

[FuEl]

Here's some of my views. The recent topic of a blue ring octopus being bought by a consumer. While many people worry for the person who bought it, I share their sentiments especially if the person is new to the hobby. However if the person knows it was and still bought it, there lies with him the responsibility to make sure the animal is secure and there is no threat to others. I recently got to know a housemate, who told me that the most dangerous weapon in the world..is the automobile. It does however, kill people every single day around the world. Compared to automobiles, how many people die due to blue ring octopus bites? If you ask me, it would really be insignificant. In many other developed countries like U.S.A, you could even keep a large cat if you had the proper permits. However in S.G., a small blue ring octopus would even potentially alert the authorities. What does this imply on how the authorities judge their citizens compared to foreign countries? Are we supposedly made out to be immature people who can't make our own decisions and understand our own social responsibilities?

And to tortoise lovers out there, many of which are in this forum. Don't you agree with me that captive bred animals make better pets in Sg compared to terrapins? The authorities know the damage the common terrapin is causing to the ecosystem..yet no steps are being done to cull them from the wild..nor are their sales being stopped. This has been going on for decades. Sometimes I wonder whether they are really ignorant..or are they sacrificing the local ecosystem for the considerable profit that such cute little green terrapins make. Anyone in nature society care to share their views?

Andysho..I wonder how animal rights or ethics can ever be applied in Sg. Even if they do probably they will only be limited to animals that are considered domesticated to the majority of the population. Such is anthropomorphism. Animals like fish, and other cold-blooded organisms will probably not be awarded animal rights just because the majority don't see them to be "human". If a society is ever to be considered morally developed, such rights has to be given to ALL animals..be it a cat..a dog...a neon tetra (yea I know this sounds extreme but that's what I believe in). Animals that are not seen as "friendly" to the majority of people should not be ostracized by authorities (Eg. Iguanas, etc). Think of it this way, if Iguanas smiled they would probably be all over petshops in Sg legally now. Where I am down South, you got to apply for ethics approval to work on prawns. I wonder if such procedures is even done in Sg (there might be..but I have not heard of any).

Terryz to get sued is ridiculous. Sg is supposedly a proclaimed country of free speach is'nt it? I find the lack of people having the courage to speak out deeply saddening. It's not like the old days of war where the possession of illicit literature can lead to executions.

[Terryz_]

Here's some of my views. The recent topic of a blue ring octopus being bought by a consumer. While many people worry for the person who bought it, I share their sentiments especially if the person is new to the hobby. However if the person knows it was and still bought it, there lies with him the responsibility to make sure the animal is secure and there is no threat to others. I recently got to know a housemate, who told me that the most dangerous weapon in the world..is the automobile. It does however, kill people every single day around the world. Compared to automobiles, how many people die due to blue ring octopus bites? If you ask me, it would really be insignificant. In many other developed countries like U.S.A, you could even keep a large cat if you had the proper permits. However in S.G., a small blue ring octopus would even potentially alert the authorities. What does this imply on how the authorities judge their citizens compared to foreign countries? Are we supposedly made out to be overgrown babies who can't make our own decisions and understand our own social responsibilities?

And to tortoise lovers out there, many of which are in this forum. Don't you agree with me that captive bred animals make better pets in Sg compared to terrapins? The authorities know the damage the common terrapin is causing to the ecosystem..yet no steps are being done to cull them from the wild..nor are their sales being stopped. This has been going on for decades. Sometimes I wonder whether they are really ignorant..or are they sacrificing the local ecosystem for the considerable profit that such cute little green terrapins make. Anyone in nature society care to share their views?

Andysho..I wonder how animal rights or ethics can ever be applied in Sg. Even if they do probably they will only be limited to animals that are considered domesticated to the majority of the population. Such is anthropomorphism. Animals like fish, and other cold-blooded organisms will probably not be awarded animal rights just because the majority don't see them to be "human". If a society is ever to be considered morally developed, such rights has to be given to ALL animals..be it a cat..a dog...a neon tetra (yea I know this sounds extreme but that's what I believe in). Animals that are not seen as "friendly" to the majority of people should not be ostracized by authorities (Eg. Iguanas, etc). Where I am down South, you got to apply for ethics approval to work on prawns. I wonder if such procedures is even done in Sg (there might be..but I have not heard of any).

Terryz to get sued is ridiculous. Sg is supposedly a proclaimed country of free speach is'nt it? I find the lack of people having the courage to speak out deeply saddening. It's not like the old days of war where the possession of illicit literature can lead to executions.

Becos of the recent incident about the posting of racisim on forums...

So must be careful...

But i seriously feel that not all singaporean can accept ppl keeping potentially dangerous animals, like blue-ring, snakes and etc...

And some singaporean really treat animals like toy... you imagine if a person keeping a snake and he got bored of it and released it... It might cause a big hoha to the public...

Although it can be controlled like license or so... But i doubt AVA will go to such extent as it is increasing their work...

[FuEl]

And oh yes..the good old days for amphibian lovers. Fire-bellied toads, fire-bellied newts, axotols were commonly available. Now they're banned while the common terrapin still roams free in the trade. Yea, fire-bellied toads and newts are poisonous..only if you eat them or an animal eats them. I had a fire-bellied newt which died, I fed it to my Oscar cichlid which just spat it out immediately. Don't see how a human could swallow one of those. And the all cute axotol..it's even common in strict Australia but now its banned in Sg.

Hmm..finally someone who shares my opinion on the lack of diligence exhibited by certain people. Anyway, trust me...if a dog like a German Sherperd got loose it would cause more panic than a snake, even a cobra. Simply because a snake would rather flee than to defend itself. Not sure what to say with regards to a dog though, especially a large breed.

Anyway, an animal is only dangerous if it's keeper allows it to be. It's like a simple kitchen knife. Give it to the wrong person and it can be very very dangerous. Maybe we should get knife licensing? Anyway, in addition to knives..pepper sprays, stun guns etc are plentiful.

[FuEl]

Bah after all my ranting it all boils down to one simple statement. Bearing in mind the examples of the simple kitchen knife, or even the common vehicle.

No animal should be judged/ostracized/banned by whatever it is or whatever it might turn out to be, its actions and impact on other people should be the full responsibility of the owner.

No dog more than 10kg in a HDB apartment? Imagine if the rule was no occupants more than 70kg in a HDB apartment. If equality between species is even to be considered such rules should either be taken away or applied to human counterparts as well.

[Terryz_]

Although i really wish that the animal trade in Singapore can loosen up... But i think singaporean are not really ready to keep these animals as pets... I dunno why but it seems like we are not as matured as other countries ppl of the same ages...

And our attitudes towards pets in not really matured, parents buy dogs, cats, hamsters when their kids like it.. And just abandoned those animals when their children get bore of it...This is a serious problem with most parents in Singapore...

Most ppl also buy on impluse,(I admit i do buy on impulse at times)... They dun read much about the animal they are going to buy and just buy... And den panick later...

I am not saying i am not a singaporean but i dunno why, i feel i cannot stand some singaporean actions and character...

Or the problem lies with me???

[FuEl]

Everything starts with education. For example when I started reefing, I just kept buying and replacing dying corals (sad but true). Then I got educated through sgreefclub which helped me make wiser decisions. As a result, less marine life suffered in my hands in the years that followed.

People buying pets for their children to make them happy is but a global phenomenon. There is nothing we can do about it but it's through responsible retailers that can make the difference.

Let's talk about my next common interest besides reefing. I would say it aloud..it's herpetoculture. Basically it means the breeding of reptiles and amphibians. I understand that Sg being a predominantly asian society is rather conservative with regards to such animals. However, Taiwan and Japan's reptile industry has taken off ages ago. I deeply saddened, with Sg supposedly having a strategic location as a trade paradise, that the reptile industry is being subject to prejudice just because reptiles in general don't appear to be "human friendly". Imagine this scenario, if reptiles were imported for the reason to be consumed I'm sure their import would be legalized. But in the case for a handful of people who admire such animals, it's not possible. Cause ALL reptiles are banned and the only exception is the terrapin. Does this make any sense at all?!

I was with a couple of reptile lovers years ago and we talked about getting a reptile club being started for the initial intention for education and where we might later move on to the commercial aspect of it (if it could ever happen). Put in alot of effort, had numerous meetings but nothing came out of it. Why was that so? Authorities were unsupportive, even if the purpose was EDUCATION. Talked to professors in a local university..yet none had the courage to back us up even though they knew we were talking sense. Talked to other societies involved with animal welfare and we were given the cold shoulder. Talked to local environmental groups and we were seen as enemies. I'm sure many others have tried too and ended up with the results. That's why reptile lovers here just keep quiet and keep their pets illegally. Not that they wanted to, but they were not given a choice.

And while our intention to get the public educated the right way, the authorities decided to educate the public the wrong way. Articles following articles appeared on raids of exotic pet keepers. Most of which kept their animals in better conditions than what zoos could have provided. Then came the shock, articles were written to stigmatize the public with regards to such animals. I'm sure that does help "alot" with conservation in mind.

People who keep "exotic" animals are not criminals, they are individuals who are being marginalised by society.

[Terryz_]

Not only taiwan, japan but hong kong too...

It is difficult to convince the authorities... And normally will fail one...

Not only with reptiles, it is really difficult to get the ava to approve keeping of dog above 10kg in HDB... And dogs lover are sort of keeping dogs unlicensed and it is illegal, dog will be taken away if caught... Although they loosen the restriction abit...

The authorities always ###### up one lar... Bring the wrong info to the public and the public just "Orh.........."

[BFG]

Let me chip in my 2 cts.

For the 10kg dog for a HDB house. I think it is because the authorities knew that because of the small space, you should keep a smaller species dog, just like reefing. You won't want to keep a juvenile French angel in a 2ft tank right? It will outgrow and need a bigger tank.

But my main concern about pet dog and cat is the way they are being transported out of this country by their owner. I really hate it when I see the owner sending their pet to export them to the destination they are going to in a small cage or container. The dog/cat can barely stand in that container and sometimes could not turn around at all, just to save some money to spend on a bigger cage or container. I really think it is really stupid on the part of the animal owner. Sometimes I overheard them talking to my colleague that their pet is like family to them but seeing the small cage/container that they are placed in, I really wonder. I might give them a piece of my mind but my job is very dear to me. I can tell you that mostly dog that won't survive the trip as they get very stressed in that situation. You can see them start to shiver even before loading onto the aircraft.

[cityofangels]

For the 10kg dog for a HDB house. I think it is because the authorities knew that because of the small space, you should keep a smaller species dog, just like reefing. You won't want to keep a juvenile French angel in a 2ft tank right? It will outgrow and need a bigger tank.

I agree with BFG on the current issue. I've seen owners keeping Golden Retrievers or Huskies in HDB flats. These are BIG dogs, which need ALOT of running space. I know some people will say that they will bring the dog for walks after their work etc. But their walks are only limited to what? An hour? I don't think that's enough for them. And these owners don't have the leisure time to bring these big dogs to several 1 hour walks a day, due to time constraints or responsibility to family or work.

[FuEl]

Hmm...makes sense but I think it would be better if the authorities actually specified the breed of dogs instead of using weight as a determining factor. Some small dogs will actually need more outdoor activity compared to other bigger breeds. Anyone seen an obese chihuahua or jack russel? Sigh if dogs after so long still can't be properly categorized I think reptiles will take maybe another half a century. By then I too old to even catch crickets.

[YzF]

Hmm...makes sense but I think it would be better if the authorities actually specified the breed of dogs instead of using weight as a determining factor. Some small dogs will actually need more outdoor activity compared to other bigger breeds. Anyone seen an obese chihuahua or jack russel? Sigh if dogs after so long still can't be properly categorized I think reptiles will take maybe another half a century. By then I too old to even catch crickets.

My gf's JRT weights more than 10kg already. And its supposed to be a small breed and AVA's approved species..

I too cannot understand why the so call 'exotic' animals are still being ban locally. I can understand if the keeping of endangered species and 'fatal to human' species are being banned. In fact, most of the 'exotic' animals are harmless to human. Just that they may look more threatening to most ppl. Guess its more like a demand and supply thingy.

Some time back, Dirtbiking was banned in Singapore. Many was caught going offroad illegally because there is no legal playground for them. Although there used to be one in Changi last time, it was fenced up. And on last weekend, a dirtbike race was held (next to ECP) with the help of some major sponsors.. And there's still no legal playground for Dirtbikers. So all the dirtbikers are riding offroad first time and they are in a race?

Try playing with the CUTE Blue-ring Octo with your bare hands and see what happens.

[flying carpet]

My gf's JRT weights more than 10kg already. And its supposed to be a small breed and AVA's approved species..

I too cannot understand why the so call 'exotic' animals are still being ban locally. I can understand if the keeping of endangered species and 'fatal to human' species are being banned. In fact, most of the 'exotic' animals are harmless to human. Just that they may look more threatening to most ppl. Guess its more like a demand and supply thingy.

Some time back, Dirtbiking was banned in Singapore. Many was caught going offroad illegally because there is no legal playground for them. Although there used to be one in Changi last time, it was fenced up. And on last weekend, a dirtbike race was held (next to ECP) with the help of some major sponsors.. And there's still no legal playground for Dirtbikers. So all the dirtbikers are riding offroad first time and they are in a race?

Try playing with the CUTE Blue-ring Octo with your bare hands and see what happens.

Bro I think if someone plays with blue ring octopus then don't have the time to even notice it.

[nakazoru]

Bah after all my ranting it all boils down to one simple statement. Bearing in mind the examples of the simple kitchen knife, or even the common vehicle.

No animal should be judged/ostracized/banned by whatever it is or whatever it might turn out to be, its actions and impact on other people should be the full responsibility of the owner.

No dog more than 10kg in a HDB apartment? Imagine if the rule was no occupants more than 70kg in a HDB apartment. If equality between species is even to be considered such rules should either be taken away or applied to human counterparts as well.

I will most guess you are a dog lover. Share your sentiment, that one cannot keep big dogs in HDB. I love big dogs too. I however somehow concur that it should not be kept in HDB.

My wife being a volenteer at SPCA/active donors and myself a pets lover, thinks my house as a mini refuge for animals. We adopted 3 abandoned hampster, one blind. No bigger pets as already have 2 dogs, at one time 3, one die at 15 years old. I love parrots too, but decided to leave them in the wild as they really do not have much predator but human...

Big dog, sorry to say needs a big room to run otherwise their legs becomes weak. Even a executive is no enuf room for it. Imagine a Butterfly in a 2 ft tank. But it doesn't mean HDB owner cannot keep them. But one should bring them outdoor for at least half hour in open space to run (not walk).

It also doesn't mean that you can't do it, but many people cannot. They deserve better. My neighbour has a husky, a 70% indoor, I feel sorry for it.

Ill-informed Pets keepers dominates the pet scene, sad right. Pets in pet shops looks good, go to SPCA, you see dogs that probably look the same onces.

You need a licence to drive/ride, our pet licences really fail the dogs...

Responsibe owners, thumbs up. How about those who fails our pets...

[Terryz_]

I know what you mean but what if the dog is a cross breed like mine... Sheltie cross... When it stands it is only about knee height but he weighs more than 10kg...

[nakazoru]

And oh yes..the good old days for amphibian lovers. Fire-bellied toads, fire-bellied newts, axotols were commonly available. Now they're banned while the common terrapin still roams free in the trade. Yea, fire-bellied toads and newts are poisonous..only if you eat them or an animal eats them. I had a fire-bellied newt which died, I fed it to my Oscar cichlid which just spat it out immediately. Don't see how a human could swallow one of those. And the all cute axotol..it's even common in strict Australia but now its banned in Sg.

Hmm..finally someone who shares my opinion on the lack of diligence exhibited by certain people. Anyway, trust me...if a dog like a German Sherperd got loose it would cause more panic than a snake, even a cobra. Simply because a snake would rather flee than to defend itself. Not sure what to say with regards to a dog though, especially a large breed.

Anyway, an animal is only dangerous if it's keeper allows it to be. It's like a simple kitchen knife. Give it to the wrong person and it can be very very dangerous. Maybe we should get knife licensing? Anyway, in addition to knives..pepper sprays, stun guns etc are plentiful.

Errr... large dogs like german sherperd is generally very obedient. They are strong thus making them difficult to handle but always listens to the owner. They are guard dogs and always ready to prowl if felt threatened. All big dogs are also hunters, so they are aggressive in its own way. There is no vegie dog.

Big dogs in HDB poses threat:

1. cats - they will definitely give chase. (Hunter instinct)

2. small dogs - (Hunter instinct). My maltese got bitten and got 12 stitches on puncture wounds. My maid kept us in the dark, lucky I found out. 200SGD damage required. Not all dogs, all my 3 dogs goes to dog show and survive all big dogs.

3. Play ground, Curious / naughty kids.

I was bitten by my primary teacher's dog, when I was patting him. But a sudden movement from me frigthen him and he bite me. I dun blame him, my fault.

[BFG]

1 more thing to add. Big dog may bark louder but those small dog bark is irritating if it is not stopped. Previously before the lift upgrading project on my block of flat, I had to walk to the 10th flr as that is where the lift stopped. I always have to pass this house which has 2 small dog. Sometimes the dog might bark when it sense someone approach. I can live with that but not the others. There was an elderly couple who had to travel in the same path. Sometimes they got shock and frightened by the sudden barking. What if suddenly they have a fatal heart attack caused by the shock that the dog barking create?

The owner can silenced the dog by sending it to the vet to remove their vocal cord but truthfully, I really feel that it is wrong to do that even though I am not a dog lover. When I see a dog liked that, it feel unnatural to me. I will see the owner in a different perspective.

This is where the knowledgeable pet owner should be aware of. If they were to get a pet dog, they should be aware of their character.

[FuEl]

1 more thing to add. Big dog may bark louder but those small dog bark is irritating if it is not stopped. Previously before the lift upgrading project on my block of flat, I had to walk to the 10th flr as that is where the lift stopped. I always have to pass this house which has 2 small dog. Sometimes the dog might bark when it sense someone approach. I can live with that but not the others. There was an elderly couple who had to travel in the same path. Sometimes they got shock and frightened by the sudden barking. What if suddenly they have a fatal heart attack caused by the shock that the dog barking create?

The owner can silenced the dog by sending it to the vet to remove their vocal cord but truthfully, I really feel that it is wrong to do that even though I am not a dog lover. When I see a dog liked that, it feel unnatural to me. I will see the owner in a different perspective.

This is where the knowledgeable pet owner should be aware of. If they were to get a pet dog, they should be aware of their character.

Talking about dogs I live in this neighbourhood. If you walk through the neighbourhood at night the dogs will bark and make such a din. However if you drive/cycle through the dogs just keep quiet. Weird is'nt it?

Sigh...reptiles are not vocal animals and they are happy just being quiet. Considering the built-up extent of Sg would'nt they make perfect pets without disturbing neighbours? Just like how fish leave neighbours alone. Or maybe even hedgehogs or ferrets? Dog lovers might find them a better choice compared to dogs. End result = less dogs in spca.

[Terryz_]

I just love hedgdog and ferrets... lol... But not allowed to bring in to SG... was tempted to smuggle back from M'sia when i saw a few...

[FuEl]

I just love hedgdog and ferrets... lol... But not allowed to bring in to SG... was tempted to smuggle back from M'sia when i saw a few...    

Haha...no problem la.. got captive bred hedgehog in Sg liao. I'm not surprised if got ferrets too. But if you buy = "criminal" act. All this small matter compared to civet cat. Remember that time SARs was reported to be caused by the civet in China? After that if I did'nt remember wrongly someone abandoned their civet cat in Serangoon North. Now got bird flu..lucky no reptile flu if not authorities sure use it as a reason to support their ban for reptiles. Now I worry for bird trade.