How will it affect the color of SPS if p04 = 0

[weileong]

Purpose of zeostart is to speed up nutrients reduction.

I am not sure what "Marc Weiss bacteria" is about but zeostart is not bacterial. Zeobak is the bacterial strains.

Zeostart is powerful stuffs for nutrients reduction, with proper and correct dosage we see a reduction in NO3 and PO4.

Based on my experience, coloration of SPS can be directly based on concentration of PO4.

The lower the PO4 the better the coloration provided the PO4 is not too low and that means not lower than 0.01 to 0.02ppm with hanna.

Algae growing from LR could be caused by LR still leaching nutrients. Eventually the algae will die off. This could happen if your nutrients levels were high before. Are you running a DSB? Maybe the DSB not properly managed too and still leaching out nutrients.

What is the source of water you're using for water change?

Sugar basically does the basic stuff of reducing N and P only but zeovit does more provided you follow the basic properly.

If I were you I would be using all zeovit stuffs rather than some alternatives. At least with this when there is problem I won't be wondering what is causing that.

You might like to run your zeovit reactor on a 3hr on 3hr off basis as that will help for more balanced nutrient reduction.

[35Cents]

Based on my experience, coloration of SPS can be directly based on concentration of PO4.

The lower the PO4 the better the coloration provided the PO4 is not too low and that means not lower than 0.01 to 0.02ppm with hanna.

Thanks for the interesting information on the ideal range of PO4.

I stand corrected.

[minsmarine]

xpert1974

I dido Weileong,

u already have a white elephant why do u want to get a micky mouse.

Or else u could exchange with me 1Kg of sugar for your zeriovit j/k

[weileong]

Thanks for the interesting information on the ideal range of PO4.

I stand corrected.

Corrected for?

IMO when PO4 was 0.00 with hanna, my SPS turns too pale

Only when I raised it to 0.01 then the colors came back.

[35Cents]

Corrected for?

IMO when PO4 was 0.00 with hanna, my SPS turns too pale

Only when I raised it to 0.01 then the colors came back.

All this time I thgt that PO4 the lower the better for sps.....

thus stand corrected by you lah...... it's a figure of speech.

[weileong]

Same like you, I also thought low low PO4 is very good but end up I prove myself wrong.

[hamannbmw]

Same like you, I also thought low low PO4 is very good but end up I prove myself wrong.

people wan to lower their PO4 instead u raise it up

[xpert1974]

Weileong

Thanks for the info, not here to cast doubts on zeovit or anything. I am using Bacter Vital from Marc Weiss, its basically another product to promote reproduction of all nitrifying bacteria like what Zeostart purported to be.

Does that mean I need to buy the entire range of zeovit pdts to be ideal, No I don't think so as every tank is unique as evidenced by the numerous TOM tanks running with and without zeovit. Even some beautiful tanks run with improvised or HF zeovit regiment.

I am not running DSB only 2inch sandbed. It could be LR leaching nutrients back (Very possible)

As mentioned, to reduce P even lower, I want to experiment zeovit with sugar. With due repsect to Alan and topic relevancy, I hope to attain P=0 with no algae and better sps colors

Minsmarine

White elephant with Mickey Mouse? I think its too far fetched. Can sugar complement zeovit to reduce my tank's P that's what I am looking for.

[weileong]

Keep us posted on your results

You don't have to buy the entire range of zeovit products. Just the basic 4 will be fine. However you have a doubt now why zeovit is not working for you that's why I thought you're not using the full product and not getting the full benefit of zeovit.

You got TOTM with tanks running DSB and BB too and all other ways of reefing. Why are there success and failure? If you look beyond that, you'll realise one word and that is "stability"

Another advise for you, how are you going to control your dosage? By looking at color of SPS? or waiting for algae to die off?

[xpert1974]

my pt is lets experiment without too much deviation not much on disbelief of zeovit, DSB, BB etc...

Will dose half a teaspoon for tonight

success criteria:

A gradual reduction of algae growth (I hope instead of massive die-offs) especially

of the nusiance rather wide spread bryopsis.

[YzF]

Xpert1974

Do let us know the results. I'm interested to know how well it works. I'm facing silmilar prob.Just a friendly reminder...Bro MinsMarine reminded not to overdose.

Good luck.

[minsmarine]

I won't recommand you xpert1974 however if you really want to try. Go ahead, I will stand by you and respect your decision.

However, I would suggest 1/4 teaspoon ( the smallest spoon ) than 1/2 and wait for 48hs please. PROVIDED your total water volume is about 1,000L

Lesson learned from my UNSUCCESSFUL experimental

I dosed too much. ( I should had done lot lower )

and slowly increase and decrease.

I used the word UNSUCCESSFUL , because it was NOT failed the objective but not successful to the extended that I didnt' know where to stop.

FYI : all my BGA gone after 5 days.

[alanseah]

Hi xpert1974,

It's seem to me you never go read the zeovit guide. Pls do so as to give you a better idea of what is what.

Cause if u depend on us to spoon feed u, we might miss something here and there cause both WL and Me are already in phase 4 and the run of zeovit will be more relax and thus some of things we no long doing...

Also with a guide book at least you can run the zeovit with the guide book on hand. Cause if depend on ours info, you might miss one or 2 or not as handy as the gudie book.

So for those who are into zeovit pls be reminded to read the guide book till you can even write it out cause you cant go that much wrong if you follow the guide book strictly. Problem will only come when you go do something funny which the guide book did not ask u to do it. And by the time u see problem it's already too late. Even WL and me will not be of much help already.

ZEOvitGuide1.pdf

[xpert1974]

pls call me Danny I am using my best friend's account (Xpert1974)

Thanks Mins

maybe a few grains of sugar ha! just joking. will stick to half a teaspoon for dosage, my total vol plus sump 800 L

[alanseah]

well guy..

here is a pic i try to take... well it seem out since the yellowish of the saki is so strong, most of the color of the sps is cover by the brightness if not the yellowish..

Like i say until i got my T5 else the color of the sps will not be shown out in truth..

[weileong]

Hey "Danny" keep us posted on the outcome.

A bit regretted you could not reply to some of my queries

[lizard44]

hi ALL,

just to set the record straight ...

i did not exactly fail. it is just that i didn't bother to reply to all the threads in the SUGAR thread.

if i had failed convincingly, bro MIN won't dare to try it.

it is just a little too unsuccessful and too many parameters that i failed to monitor. as a newbie reefer, i don't have enough equipment and test kits to do justifications to continue a proper experimentation. so i stopped posting.

i now just dose sugar for my own fun and not bother to report any results because parameters in each tank is different enough to have different results. so i am enjoying my experiments in my own private ways.

bro MIN's SPSes have been growing and some even cling to his glass, his tunze, his back glass and cover some of his rocks completely (before the sugar).

he then chanced upon this little SUGAR method and he single-handed has brought the method to a far greater level that i could possibly achieve, i.e., he did it to his SPSes.

i won't have dared to dream that experiment. super experiment, if fail, die man ...

seeing his SPSes colouring up further with a little SUGAR was thus an absolute joy to me.

i must also report that there were no deaths of colonies during his first trial, except for his anemone crawling into his return pump. luckily a partial water change did the trick of recovery.

i think the long term effect on SUGAR dosing is still not known.

so BRO MIN ... you are my man.

lizard

[blueheaven]

I predict that dosing sugar will cause some bacteria to become pathogenic.

I have explained this on the section of "Quorum Sensing" in my article.

When you provide a carbon source, the bacterial populations bloom suddenly and cause that decrease in nitrates. But once it blooms out of control, its quorum gene will naturally cause it to release toxins to kill off and lower their population.

The toxins produced have yet to be studied on reef tanks but if the method works well for you Min, then congratulations!!!

[AlfaRomeo]

Danny, instead of using sugar to bring nitrates down, why dunt u subsitute it with zeostart? It will work beautifully with the whole basic zeovit method. You will see your no3 and po4 go down steadily instead of sudden decrease (slowly is surely better in terms of stability)

Also, it doesnt matter about what phase you are in when it comes to zeovit. You might be in stage 1 now but things will surely improve once u progress correctly with the zeovit method. Follow the guide accurately and things will surely improve.

However, do not go around boasting that u r in stage 20 etc etc if your corals are all brown or different shades of brown.

Im using it for nearly a year now and things have never been better for my tank personally in my own eyes.

[Gouldian]

I predict that dosing sugar will cause some bacteria to become pathogenic.

I have explained this on the section of "Quorum Sensing" in my article.

When you provide a carbon source, the bacterial populations bloom suddenly and cause that decrease in nitrates. But once it blooms out of control, its quorum gene will naturally cause it to release toxins to kill off and lower their population.

The toxins produced have yet to be studied on reef tanks but if the method works well for you Min, then congratulations!!!

Agree.

If I remember correctly in the nineties M^&c W%#** products are super popular in the reefing community. Most people reported great results until sometime when their tank conditions starts to deteriorate.

Upon investigations realized that the "famed" product is just sugar solution. And thats also when some reefers start to realized that sugar although produces great results in certain situation, overdosage or even prolonged dosage can be detrimental.

Anyway, that's just my limited 2 cents.

[AlfaRomeo]

Agree.

If I remember correctly in the nineties M^&c W%#** products are super popular in the reefing community. Most people reported great results until sometime when their tank conditions starts to deteriorate.

Upon investigations realized that the "famed" product is just sugar solution. And thats also when some reefers start to realized that sugar although produces great results in certain situation, overdosage or even prolonged dosage can be detrimental.

Anyway, that's just my limited 2 cents.

So the best way for sugar dosing is dose it once or twice to bring down NO3/PO4 and then stop?

[blueheaven]

Its like AZ-NO3

You cannot adopt it for a long term solution

Zeovit is definately good but initial costs and some basic knowledge is needed for it to be a success

[Gouldian]

So the best way for sugar dosing is dose it once or twice to bring down NO3/PO4 and then stop?

Dunno man, I never tried but I think the Tried and Tested method of dosing Zeostart is a better option.

At least we get a Zeovit guide to let us know what to expect.

For Sugar, I dun think SIS or any sugar manufacturer ever printed guides on reefing let alone intructions on maintaning great parameters with sugar dosage.

[hotlemond]

i find sugar may just be a temporary fix and we do not know the end effect it had on the tank in long term, while Zeovit is a proven method that long term correct usage brings benefits.

[Gouldian]

Personally I will never try Sugar Method but I do repect Lizard and Mins for pioneering the experimentations of sugar for the benefit of the community as a whole. Maybe one day, Singapore reefers will be the first to publish the sugar dosing guide for better reefs.

But I feel that it would be better that the new unsuspecting reefers have to be warn of the consequences just like what Lizard & Mins have done in their post.

My limited 2 cents.