How will it affect the color of SPS if p04 = 0

[AlfaRomeo]

FYI all my SPSs r still with me, not even one gone to STN/RTN, In process or result of SUGAR.

If you want to know, u could read in my tank thread under SUGAR Dosing.

The YOUNGEST SPS in my tank is 5 months++ in my tank ( Yes I am still new to SPS )

The sugar method will work I believe but got to be very careful with it. Same theory as the Vodka method. Right, Mins?

[minsmarine]

Alpha,

vodka and sugar is the same method ( as I believe ). I do notice that even zerovit is based from sugar method ( well not relying sugar ), I can't remeber where the web page was , but I did read once b4.

I will try sugar again, but this time I will be very careful about the dosage. I know it can do it. It's not matter of cheap or expensive. I just want to try to be out of the box.

My frist try to SUGAR stopped , due to OVER DOSAGE ( 1/2 teaspoon a day ).

Thank WeiLeong, u enlighteen me about DOSAGE.

And I will let your guys know the result.

Yes I dare to try again , because my cost for SPS are cheap, half of my SPSs r from browny ( so pay very little compare to fresh one )

[Dorado]

Alpha,

vodka and sugar is the same method ( as I believe ). I do notice that even zerovit is based from sugar method ( well not relying sugar ), I can't remeber where the web page was , but I did read once b4.

I will try sugar again, but this time I will be very careful about the dosage. I know it can do it. It's not matter of cheap or expensive. I just want to try to be out of the box.

My frist try to SUGAR stopped , due to OVER DOSAGE ( 1/2 teaspoon a day ).

Thank WeiLeong, u enlighteen me about DOSAGE.

And I will let your guys know the result.

Yes I dare to try again , because my cost for SPS are cheap, half of my SPSs r from browny ( so pay very little compare to fresh one )

Bro Mins, how much is the dosage per day, 1/2 teaspoon or table spoon?

My nitrate is at 0.25 and P04 undetectable, is it wise to use the sugar dosage?

(Using salifert, got to save-up for hanna)

[weileong]

Those sugar, volka, alcohol are bacterial base. Our tanks are carbon limited so introducing carbon source will cause bacterial bloom. This would have an effects on PO4 and NO3 as they will go into the bacterial biomass and the skimmer can then skim them out. Did you noticed that with sugar or volka you get very dark skimmate?

So you can think what happens when the NO3 and PO4 runs out or there is insufficient PO4 & NO3 produced to feed the bacterial population? Mins can surely answer that lol.

Dorado, different tank requires entirely different dosage and so there is not fixed rule, you really need to dose very little, slowly increasing by 50%/day and at the same time monitor the PO4. Once PO4 starts to reduce then you need to reduce your dosage by 50%. There is however a catch if you try to use salifert PO4 test kit, you will never know that your PO4 are dropping until it is too late and you already overdose.

[weileong]

As Mins on the effects & also ask some of the reefers who had given up on zeovit then you know already.

Bacterial we can't see but SPS we can see

[minsmarine]

In my experience,

when there are no more DOC ( in my case , casue b4 start dosage, I had no prob with PO4, NO2 & NO3 ),

Slimmy algae ( I believe it's bacteria , not algae ) sart appear everywhere, especially @ HIGH FLOW area.

Those slimmy bacteria can chock ur pump, pipe ( BELIEVE ME IN LESS THAN 24hr, they can DOUBLE UP THEMSELF ).

Doraro

I did dose 1/2 tea spoon for my total water of 80G ( 40G + 40G sump ) for 10 days. U can refer to my tank thread for more info

WeiLeong is RIGHT, once u dose SUGAR, your SKIMMER will give BLACK THICK COFFEE.

[Dorado]

Thanks Bro weileong and Mins.

I think like what Bro weileong said, I better invest and hanna than

using selifert for exact before start the dosing.

Bro weileong, can pm me the lfs carry Hanna.

[weileong]

No LFS carry hanna, go hanna singapore and get it. Can check with yellowpages.

[madmac]

Okay... not the answer I was expecting... so can someone answer me? The sugar removes no3 or po4??

when you dose organic C, as in Vodka, Sugar, etc, you create a environment where bacteria can multiply... these take up N and P compounds from their surrounds.

The short answer to your question would be... yes, it removes both (for the short term), the creation of bacteria takes up N compounds (e.g. ammonium - source) leading to the decrease of NO3 and P, bringing down phosphates too.

However when the source of C expires(bacterial food), what will happen to the excess bacteria, where do they go to(bacteria is limited by food and habitat) removing one means, they die and leak back into the system... you'll have to find a method export them before that happens....

As nutrients are both N & P, reducing them would limit say algae growth. However it is extremely difficult to limit N compounds because N is always present... say in coupled nitrification/denitrification or simply from the atmosphere. So rather than trying to go for something impossible, it would be better to work on reducing P.

[madmac]

bro weileong..just a thought...if there is insufficient PO4 to feed the bacterial population...wont that also applies to the sps...then wont the growth of sps be slowed?

studies have shown that P poisons stoney corals, esp SPS.... so a reduction of PO4 will never slow their growth.

think bro Weileong was referring to, in the reduction of PO4, the newly created bacteria will die and leech back into the system if its not skimmed out.

So you can think what happens when the NO3 and PO4 runs out or there is insufficient PO4 & NO3 produced to feed the bacterial population?

[minsmarine]

I believe RAV65 has the answer he was waiting for

( if not enough tell me huh, I can be InternetReefer )

Or Is he start dosing SUGAR ?

I guess after he became father , he lose reading Because sugar is a new method ?

Actually, Lizard44 started the SUGAR thread and highlighted his failure. I learned from there to dose sugar, but still too much.

I gave full respect to Lizard44 who dare to post his experimental and failure.

We r still learning, when we stop learning, we become......................

Happy Reefing

[Gouldian]

I believe RAV65 has the answer he was waiting for 

( if not enough tell me huh, I can be InternetReefer  )

Or Is he start dosing SUGAR ? 

I guess after he became father , he lose reading Because sugar is a new method ?

Actually, Lizard44 started the SUGAR thread and highlighted his failure. I learned from there to dose sugar, but still too much.

I gave full respect to Lizard44 who dare to post his experimental and failure.

We r still learning, when we stop learning, we become......................

Happy Reefing

Yup! Lizard44 is the guy who started the sugar dosing method and have the courage to admit his failure.

I really respect him for doing that!

With regards to the sugar method, I believe sugar or volka encourages certain strain of bacteria which is effective in bring NO3 down.

However, with prolong dosage, the other strains of bacterium being disadvantaged, will slowly deplete.

This, I feel may tip the balance that we are all searching.

One good analogy is, "Never Put All Your Eggs In One Basket".

I also agree with Weileong with the minimal PO4 theory.

[weileong]

That's why zeovit has the zeobak so you dose this on a regular basis to restore the bacterial strain.

[xpert1974]

is it plausible that we can dose sugar on top of zeovit regiment? anyone tried it b4?

I have been using zeovit from start and though my nitrate shows 0 from 2 test kits, alage is still showing up on my LRs. P might be the other source but am not running Rowa cos of zeovit. If sugar can take out N & P, then is that the balance we are looking for (zeovit + sugar)?

[weileong]

Zeovit itself reduces N & P already and zeofood and start1/2 are the carbon source so why do you want to add sugar? You probably end up overdosing and crash your tank.

How long have you been running zeovit and dosage like?

[alanseah]

Zeovit itself reduces N & P already and zeofood and start1/2 are the carbon source so why do you want to add sugar? You probably end up overdosing and crash your tank.

How long have you been running zeovit and dosage like?

worst still u r crashing the zeovit system.. so end up u want zeovit to work or you want sugar to work.??

[xpert1974]

I have been dosing 3-4 drops of zeobak & zeofood ever since start of tank set-up. But occasionally, dosage regiment not consistent due to not-so-strict husbandry. Even then, algae sprout out from the 2nd mnth onwards (now in 8th mnth).

It may be u/r zeovit that some of my brownish sps lightened tremendously and others lightened up in colors (for eg, deep purple turned to light purple, dark brown turned to creamy-purplish) but I can't put together the correlation convincingly between zeovit, MH lights, N & P because my algae is still flourishing! Probably my P is high all along but it's continously taken up by algae and still sps color lightened up?

My point is I want to experiment with sugar. Will dose tonight starting with very low dosage 2 teaspoons on a 700L display tank. Have personally seen the effects of sugar dosage on my friend's tank when he did it the first time(his nitrate was over 50 intially), it's cloudy, skim mate darkened, LPS shrivelled but when all its cleared, his LPS opened bigger than norm expected.

[weileong]

IMHO I wouldn't want to dose sugar as that is also carbon source. It is like dosing a lot of zeostart at one go.

I noticed you are not using zeostart at all? You might like to consider using it now. Are you running the zeoliths in a reactor?

In my limited experience with zeovit for 1yrs, even at PO4 of 0.06ppm (hanna) my SPS are still showing color but when I lowered the PO4 down to 0.01 the colors are better as the tissues are lighter in color due to the lower zoox density.

In your friend's tank, the NO3 is 50ppm and that certainly cause some stress to the LS and when the NO3 is reduced the LS response better as they are now less stressed.

Before you do the un-thinkable stunt of dosing sugar, do you know your NO3 and PO4 reading now?

[minsmarine]

I won't recommand 2 teaspoon, even if you decided to experiment SUGAR.

IMO, I would go with 1/4 or 1/2 tea spoon only. Even this i guess too much.

[xpert1974]

I am running zeolithe, zeobak, zeofood, zeoamino, zeospur2. As for zeostart, I am using 'alternative' like Marc Weiss bacteria. I mentioned that my N is ZERO based on 2 test kits (tetra & red sea). Testing P using Salifert but I cant' distinguish the color(really sian using Salifert), no money buy Hanna. Assume P is high as algae flourishing.

Coming back, with the proposed sugar dosing on top of zeovit, I want to know if:

1. Algae are still flourishing?

2. Colors getting better (subjective) as P is lowered?

overall, I want to know if N is constant, will changes in P lead to much better colors and param.

btw I got only 5 fish in my display tank and I feed on alternate days, WC 15% 2 weeks - 3 weeks.

[minsmarine]

what kind of algae r u bettleing with, GHA or BGA ?

[xpert1974]

I have the following:

C. racemosa

Bryopsis

Valonia

Padina

Sarassum

Red spikeweed

Halimeda Copiosa

and prob others that I can't identify.

[AlfaRomeo]

Quite a collection you have there. What skimmer are u using and is it properly rated for your tank?

[xpert1974]

Ha! I treat this as a compliment

I am using H&S rated for 850L tank

[minsmarine]

xpert1974

To respect thread owner and to able to assit you with your chalenges.

May I advise to create another thread on your own ( b4 dosing SUGAR ), so seniors here would be able to advise you.

sometime more head is better than none. And more hands kill also.

so please do balance after this ok.

Happy Reefing