Custom made Twin Beckett

[blueheaven]

I am still quite confused as to how having holes in the cap help to resolve situations when the skimmer overflows.

Can you explain again Ocean Werx

[Ocean Werx]

I am still quite confused as to how having holes in the cap help to resolve situations when the skimmer overflows.

Can you explain again Ocean Werx

Hi BH,

the air vents will not help in anyway when the skimmer overskim. If you look carefully, the riser neck is shorter than the top of the collection cup. when the skimmer goes bonkers, the excessive skimmate will flow back into the riser neck and not out of the collection cup.

therefore, a waste collector can be used in either air-tight or non air-tight skimmers. For the latter, the mechanism will be slightly different. but both the skimmate or your sump water will not overflow out of the skimmer.

I hope you can understand my explanation. If otherwise, please feel free to ask any questions.

Regards

Ocean Werx

[shoelevy]

hi ocean werx

i think i begin to understand your explanation

i've attached a picture so that i can clarify "the excessive skimmate will flow back into the riser neck and not out of the collection cup. "

does the picture depict what you are trying to say?

[zorden]

can we conclude that if the skimmate flow back to the riser neck into the sump tank?

If yes, doesnt the design further pollute the water as compare to the "ping pong" version which just prevent skimming and but does not aggravate the water condition.

[blueheaven]

I do agree with zorden if the above illustration is true

Skimmate not only contains fish poo but also heavy metals and some toxins

[zero_endless]

Rex Ng>> gd point! blueheaven>> i agreed with u too.

[CalciumReef]

hi ocean werx

i think i begin to understand your explanation

i've attached a picture so that i can clarify "the excessive skimmate will flow back into the riser neck and not out of the collection cup. "

does the picture depict what you are trying to say?

Your drawing is misleading.This is a better illustration.The deflection ring will make the skimmate flow back into the riser neck probably.

[Ocean Werx]

shoelevy + calciumreef

thanks a million for the pic. it shows exactly what will happen when the waste collector is full and thereafter collection cup. The skimmate will simply flow back into the riser neck. Thanks again.

If the user prefers wet skimming, the deflection ring will help to direct the foam into the collection cup. However, if the user prefers dry skimming, it can still be done by lowering the water level in the riser neck. The main purpose of the deflection ring is to direct / deflect the foam into the collection cup. I've seen a few beckett skimmers (inclusive of our old batches) that actually have foam build-up at the top of the riser neck but seems to constipate there.

zorden + blueheaven

When collection cup fills up, the extracted skimmate will actually remain at the top layer of the foaming and only minimal will retreat back into the tank.

However, in the air-tight version, the skimmer totally stop skimming. All tank water that is pumped into the skimmer is being forced back into the sump / tank without any skimming at all.

Skimmate is basically DOC and other pollutants that is extracted from the tank water. I don't really agree that it will further pollute the tank, skimmate is what should already be present in your tank if it is not properly extracted.

Even if it flows back into your tank, it is where it belonged originally. Therefore, it will not release any additional pollutant into the tank. It will not aggravate the water condition.

zero endless:

which part are you agreeing to? I sincerely hope that you can clarify.

Hi all,

I hope I did not mix up the main issue here. We were mainly discussing on whether the auto shut-off waste collector can be used on our skimmers. The answer is YES. it will still work;

1) the auto shut-off waste collector fills up,

2) the ping pong shuts the waste collector,

3) the collection cup gets filled up,

4) extra skimmate simply overflows back into the riser neck of the skimmer.

Pertaining to no. 4, shoelevy and calciumreef had already posted a clear pic the show how the skimmate will overflow back into the riser neck and not overflow out of the collection cup.

Hhhmmm....Rex Ng, anything you wish to advise on? Thanks in advance.

This thread is certainly open for discussion, but please don't claim "blind" things. Thanks everyone for your valuable inputs.

Whao!! I LOVE THIS THREAD!!

[zorden]

When collection cup fills up, the extracted skimmate will actually remain at the top layer of the foaming and only minimal will retreat back into the tank.

However, in the air-tight version, the skimmer totally stop skimming. All tank water that is pumped into the skimmer is being forced back into the sump / tank without any skimming at all.

SO i can summarise that your design does allow skimmin but still induce "minimal" skimmate into the tank even when the collection cup is full.

The ping pong ball design stop skimming but do not introduce skimmate into the tank. (water condition remain unchanged)

--> Doesn't this action of introducing skimmate "suddenly" aftect the health of the lifestock and also coral as the skimmate take time to extract out and yet enter into the tank as a more concentrated toxic? (just as pointed out by Blueheaven that it contains metal)

my 0.02cents

maybe i am wrong. me still learning abt skimmers.....and also marine

btw u have nice skimmer....

[Ocean Werx]

SO i can summarise that your design does allow skimmin but still induce "minimal" skimmate into the tank even when the collection cup is full.

The ping pong ball design stop skimming but do not introduce skimmate into the tank. (water condition remain unchanged)

--> Doesn't this action of introducing skimmate "suddenly" aftect the health of the lifestock and also coral as the skimmate take time to extract out and yet enter into the tank as a more concentrated toxic? (just as pointed out by Blueheaven that it contains metal)

my 0.02cents

maybe i am wrong. me still learning abt skimmers.....and also marine

btw u have nice skimmer....

zorden

as mentioned, it is totally safe. most of the pollutants will remain at the top layer of the foaming. only minimal will retard back into the tank, and it will be diluted within the skimmer before it reaches the tank.

thanks for your compliment.

[shoelevy]

The ping pong ball design stop skimming but do not introduce skimmate into the tank. (water condition remain unchanged)

--> Doesn't this action of introducing skimmate "suddenly" aftect the health of the lifestock and also coral as the skimmate take time to extract out and yet enter into the tank as a more concentrated toxic?  (just as pointed out by Blueheaven that it contains metal)

in my opinion right, i think the bio ocean version of skimmate returning to main tank wouldn't cause a harm to the tank.

allow me to explain my pt of view.

lets assume that we run the traditional air tight beckett along side with bio ocean beckett. each skimmer runs on a seperate tank.

now lets assume that both tanks have 1L of DOC and that the waste collector of both fills up with say 900ml of DOC and auto shuts off

so what happens is 100ml of DOC is left in each tank

ok...now lets look at what happens in each beckett design and the amt of DOC left in each tank

Case 1: Traditional air tight beckett

back pressure builds up, skimmer stops foaming...no skimmate is collected.

so what remains in your tank is still 100ml of DOC.

Case 2: Bio ocean beckett

It continues to skim, but since the collection cup is full, whatever DOC it skims out simply goes back to the tank through over flowing back into the riser.

In other words, lets say it skims out 1ml of skimmate, since the collection cup is already full, this 1 ml flows back to the tank. Its safe to say this is true for any amt of skimmate...it can skim out 10ml, but all 10ml will go back to the tank.

What this means is, for any amt of the remaining 100ml which the beckett draws out, anthe exact of skimmate will go back to the tank.

Result: The amt of DOC in the main tank is still 100ml.

So in my opinion, if you compare both situations, we will see that the skimmate flowing back to the tank isn't exactly a problem since the amt of DOC floating about in the tank is still the same amt of 100ml.In fact, there's no sudden/excess introduction of skimmate or heavy metals etc etc. What the owner should do is to clear the waste collector

So my thought is that the bio ocean skimmer in terms of auto shut off capability works just fine

Just my thoughts...feel free to discuss

PS:discuss is not equals to flame/personal agenda so plus keep your words friendly

[blueheaven]

So it means that you cannot run an Ocean Werx skimmer using a waste collector if you want its flowback mechanism while if you want the auto shutoff, you will need an airtight skimmer. Am I right?

[shoelevy]

don't exactly get what you mean BH but i suppose as long as the skimmer skims and when the waste collector is full and it doesn't flood your house then i suppose its considered auto shut off

[zorden]

In other words, lets say it skims out 1ml of skimmate, since the collection cup is already full, this 1 ml flows back to the tank.

..hmm but dont the skimmate in the collection cup get "dryer" and become more concentrated and this 1ml doesnt just simple flow back, it mixed with the rest of the more concentrated and toxic skimmate..and the mixture of 1ml returns to the tank...

hope i am right??

btw..do we place the waste collector lower or same level with the skimmer???

[Ocean Werx]

..hmm but dont the skimmate in the collection cup get "dryer" and become more concentrated and this 1ml doesnt just simple flow back, it mixed with the rest of the more concentrated and toxic skimmate..and the mixture of 1ml returns to the tank...

hope i am right??

btw..do we place the waste collector lower or same level with the skimmer???

shoelevy:

thanks again.

to add on to shoelevy's wonderful explanation, our beckett skimmer actually continue skimming when the waste collector fills up. It will continue to skim until the collection cup gets fill up.

However, the air-tight version will only fill up the waste collector and thereafter totally stop skimming.

zorden,

even when the collection cup gets dry and more concentrated, it is still originally from your tank. perhaps, when the collection cup gets filled up, the new skimmate might mix with the "drier skimmate", however the level of concentration should be negligible. wouldn't have too much of effect on the tank condition.

As mentioned, when collection cup fills up, the extracted skimmate will actually remain at the top layer of the foaming and only minimal will retreat back into the tank. It is definitely better than not skimming at all.

blueheaven

do you mean this?

So it means that you CAN run an Ocean Werx skimmer using a waste collector if you want its flowback mechanism. while if you want the auto shutoff, you will need an airtight skimmer. Am I right?

YES, different mechanism but same shutting down capability.

We shall continue discussing on the air vent issue.

If there are still any "blind" doubts about our design, please kindly give us a call at 6396 7783.

[zorden]

...the new skimmate might mix with the "drier skimmate", however the level of concentration should be negligible. wouldn't have too much of effect on the tank condition.

As mentioned, when collection cup fills up, the extracted skimmate will actually remain at the top layer of the foaming and only minimal will retreat back into the tank. It is definitely better than not skimming at all.

when the new skimmate backflow into the tank..then it should be negligible..i can agreed with u this statment.

However i do not agreed that if the above mention is better than not having skimming..

New improvised design --> New skimmate overflow and mix with old skimmate (drier) then return to tank..it will introduce more toxic but the new skimmate However its is still negligible.

Conventional design --> Skimmate wont overflow but stop skimming..yet not better than the "New improvised design"

btw..i think we should share here in the forum...so other ppl can benefits..

this question may also educate newbie like me and Blueheaven ..more abt beckett... and also deter other newbie from asking same question

[shoelevy]

New improvised design  --> New skimmate overflow and mix with old skimmate (drier) then return to tank..it will introduce more toxic  but the new skimmate However its is still negligible. 

this is what i think...

in my opinion, the skimmate falls back into the riser but will mix in with the foam that is rising and hence will rise with the foam again.

of course after that it will go into the collection cup...overflow back into riser and rise with foam again

so it never makes it back to the tank but stays at the neck or riser region of the beckett

[Ocean Werx]

Zorden,

it takes hours, perhaps days for skimmate to dry up and thicken.

you are right to say that the new skimmate will mix with the old ones. as i've mentioned before, only minimal will retreat back into the tank. most of the "scum" will remain at the top layer of the foaming. unless the collection cup is filled up and left to run for months, there shouldn't be significant effect on the tank parameters.

I cannot calculate the amount of concentration of old skimmate and new skimmate, but from our understanding, it shouldn't differ much.

I cannot confirm the exact amount of skimmate that will retard back into the tank. But I CAN assure that the tank condition will not be any worse than if the skimmer is not skimming.

We have already concluded that our beckett skimmers can be used in-conjunction with a auto-shut-off waste collector. I believe most who had shown interest in this thread do. When used together with a waste collector, the skimmer WILL NOT overflow.

If the skimmer is left running (but not skimming) for weeks without anyone attending to it, the tank parameter will DEFINITELY worsen.

Same thing applies for our skimmers, whereby our collectio cup is not air tight, tank condition will also worsen if left unattended for weeks.

End of the day, even if one has the most expensive, sophisticated equipments, a reef tank might not survive if the owner practises ill-husbandry. It is good husbandry that decides the success / survivability of a good reef tank.

We strongly advise that skimmers should be cleaned at least once a week.

Regards

Ocean Werx

[zorden]

End of the day, even if one has the most expensive, sophisticated equipments, a reef tank might not survive if the owner practises ill-husbandry. It is good husbandry that decides the success / survivability of a good reef tank.

We strongly advise that skimmers should be cleaned at least once a week.

maybe if the owner have enough $$$ to buy a deltec with self cleaning function...anyway... does a deltec really able to self clean after 1 or 2 months..and also have a auto top up for water and also auto feeder

[Ocean Werx]

The deltec auto-cleaner is to clean the inside of the riser neck so that the "scum" will be removed. the "scum" has negative effect of the skimming. too much "scum" and the foam will not be able to push up into the collection cut.

[zorden]

have u experiement with two rio20 for a 32 ht beckett????

[Ocean Werx]

have u experiement with two rio20 for a 32 ht beckett????

for rio 20hf, 32inches height is too tall. in fact, even for a 2ft tall, it is "just ok". if possible, we will still recommend a stronger pump like quietone 4000 high head.

and at 32inches height, the skimmer most likely have to be installed out-sump. the head loss will be too much for the rio 20HF.

Regards

Ocean Werx