Keith's Tank

[scarab]

pH controller is not the cure-all solution for tunning CR. You still need to set the effluent flow, CO2 bubble count and running hrs correctly for your tank.

Even if you managed to use the pH controller to help you maintain the kH and Ca of your tank but CR tuned wrongly, it will also cause depressed pH in your tank.

Bro, don't quite get what you mean by 'Even if you managed to use the pH controller to help you maintain the kH and Ca of your tank but CR tuned wrongly'

Coz to what I know, once you can maintain your kH and Ca using a CR means you have tuned your CR correctly, isn't it? I mean the pH controller with the probe set into your CR main chamber.

Using a pH controller means you don't have to worry about your CO2 bubble count or effluent drip rate. Keep your effluent at continuous visible drip (not like a running tap), then adjust your CO2 to the pH you want in your chamber (forget about how many bubbles per sec...etc etc). Test your kH and Ca for your tank for the next 2 or 3 days, and adjust the chamber pH (by increasing or decreasing the CO2 input) according to your tank needs, ie if your test show insufficient kH and Ca, increase the CO2 input to reduce the CR chamber pH. This will give you higher resultant properties in your effluent or vice versa.

Oh ya I also feel that CR should be run 24/7. Having a pH controller eliminates the possiblity of overdosing from your CR as the CO2 cuts off when the pH reaches your set level. Unless your pH controller conked out lah.

[keithtty]

Hey Francis,

Thanks for the info. Sounds like I need to make another investment! Now to hunt for a controller. Regards-Keith

[weileong]

Bro, let me explain again.

With CR running, it tends to cause depressed pH in the tank which means the tank pH can get quite low at night.

Worst case is when you tune your CR wrongly by high CO2 count relative to CR main chamber size. This cause excessive CO2 to be dump into your main tank causing low pH problem especially at night when the pH is at it's lowest point.

So what happens when one is not sure how to tune the CR properly and uses a pH controller to control the effluent properties? Like you mentioned when you want to increase the parameters of the effluent you increased the CO2 bubble counts together with a change in the pH controller set-point, this can have an effect in the main tank's pH and if one don't monitor properly it could cause the pH to go below 7.7 or even lower.

The low pH can be solved by dosing kalkwasser at night but that will cause PO4 to be pooled up in your tank and which will be released back by bacterial action as well as when the pH of the tank drops so there is con to this method.

The CR should not be running 24/7, if properly tune you don't have to run it 24/7 unless your CR is under-sized for your tank.

I run my CR 5hrs a day (means CO2 is injected only 5hrs a day) and this has help to keep the mininium pH at 8.00 to 8.05 in the night time. CO2 counts and effluent drip rate is held constant. If there is an increase in my tank's consumption rate then you simply increase the running hrs and vice versa.

Just sharing what I have found out

[Melvyn Tan]

CR indeed should not be running 24/7...

[keithtty]

Do you mean you limit the CO2 dosage or do you also stop the feed pump? Thanks

[scarab]

Well the rule is of course size your CR correctly to your tank. Even better oversize your CR. Then you will not be using your CR to the limit.

You only run your CR 5 hours a day???? You must have a very efficient CR

I'm running a super giant CR with a total of 4 chambers and I still have to run it 24/7 to achieve what I want. Well different tank will have it's different characteristics, I suppose. Still I find the pH controller is one equipment you shouldn't do without if you are running a CR.

Currently using ARM, keeping chamber pH at 6.6 and continuous visible effluent drip. My tank pH 8.15 to 8.45. Using kalkreactor with top up water.

[keithtty]

I promised Ancelot a full tank shot tonight. Tadaa...here it is:

[keithtty]

Haha...that was more than 2 years ago. Hehe...never say when mah. Anyway, xian chou le:

[weileong]

I stopped the CO2 but keep the effluent dripping and recirculation pump running.

I am running my main chamber pH at 6.35 and effluent at almost (slightly broken) continous flow.

Like I mentioned using kalkwasser will help to boost up the pH but with it's down-side, but since most people are running rowaphos then who cares about PO4 right?

You run your tank dkh at 10 right? There could be false consumption by calcium deposit on hot surfaces which leads to unncessary needs to overdrive the CR.

Don't get me wrong, pH controller is highly recommend for a CR but I feel one should not totally rely the tunning of the CR based on the pH controller cos if the pH controller screwed up then there is a high chance for disaster to happen. It is still better to get the effluent flow and CO2 bubble rate set correctly for the tank consumption.

[scarab]

I stopped the CO2 but keep the effluent dripping and recirculation pump running.

I am running my main chamber pH at 6.35 and effluent at almost (slightly broken) continous flow.

Like I mentioned using kalkwasser will help to boost up the pH but with it's down-side, but since most people are running rowaphos then who cares about PO4 right?

You run your tank dkh at 10 right? There could be false consumption by calcium deposit on hot surfaces which leads to unncessary needs to overdrive the CR.

Don't get me wrong, pH controller is highly recommend for a CR but I feel one should not totally rely the tunning of the CR based on the pH controller cos if the pH controller screwed up then there is a high chance for disaster to happen. It is still better to get the effluent flow and CO2 bubble rate set correctly for the tank consumption.

Hey Keith,

Really sorry to borrow your tank thread, but there's something I need to ask. Sorry...

weileong,

If you stop the CO2 but keep the effluent running won't your CR chamber pH go up and come close to your tank pH? Then when you run the CO2 you will need a lot to bring it down from 8.3 to 6.35 again for the media to burn right? Sorry ah, I a little ignorant when come to this, just thought it seems logical....

[weileong]

Scarab, that's correct. This is the way to keep the main tank pH as high as possible w/o the use of kalkwasser. But the main chamber pH will raise to around 7.0 at the highest but it is nowhere near the main tank pH. CO2 rate abt 3 bubbles/sec.

CO2 starts abt 4hrs after main lights turn on and stop 3 hrs after main lights goes off so pH in the main tank is kept high.

Keith, sorry for polluting your thread, hope you don't mind.

[scarab]

Scarab, that's correct. This is the way to keep the main tank pH as high as possible w/o the use of kalkwasser. But the main chamber pH will raise to around 7.0 at the highest but it is nowhere near the main tank pH. CO2 rate abt 3 bubbles/sec.

CO2 starts abt 4hrs after main lights turn on and stop 3 hrs after main lights goes off so pH in the main tank is kept high.

Keith, sorry for polluting your thread, hope you don't mind.

Up to 7 only? Really? Thanks.

Keith,

Hand back the tank thread to you.. Sorry

Saw your tank pix. Very nice mate.

That branching monti with purple polyps is really sweet. I've a small frag which is taking ages to grow.

Keep it up.

[alanseah]

well since in RC or online website.. kalkwasser have been know to result in pool of p04 source....

I also run my CR 5~6 hrs a day only.. and i see no problem in mantaining my KH and Cal..

[scarab]

well since in RC or online website.. kalkwasser have been know to result in pool of p04 source....

I also run my CR 5~6 hrs a day only.. and i see no problem in mantaining my KH and Cal..

Well maybe there are other reasons why your tank kH and Ca requirement is only that level.

Anyway, I shut up now... Sorry again Keith, couldn't resist myself....

[alanseah]

Well maybe there are other reasons why your tank kH and Ca requirement is only that level.

Anyway, I shut up now... Sorry again Keith, couldn't resist myself....

hmm maybe.... but i dont see the result why 3 x 250W saki 6.5kk and running on LA3 will show any low demand for KH and CA...

anyway different tank different need.. so long current setup is ok to meet your tank need will do...

we just learn and share how we think of CR and the way we run it only...

[acidjazz]

well since in RC or online website.. kalkwasser have been know to result in pool of p04 source....

I also run my CR 5~6 hrs a day only.. and i see no problem in mantaining my KH and Cal..

sorry to borrow the thread as well. .

currently i dose 8 litres of kalkwassar a week, so this is mainly the culprit for the high po4?

[alanseah]

sorry to borrow the thread as well. .

currently i dose 8 litres of kalkwassar a week, so this is mainly the culprit for the high po4?

well maybe let me go dig out the web that explain it.. like that also help others as well....

[blueheaven]

Kalkwasser is known to sort of reduce PO4 but precipitating it out of solution but I'm not really sure of the actual reaction

Anyway, hows your anthias Keith?

[alanseah]

here it is..

"This being the case, why do these micro algae suddenly appear even though tank conditions and water quality do not account for such growth at all? It has been postulated and even proven that the long-term use of Kalkwasser precipitates phosphates out of the water (which Kalkwasser really does) and that these phosphate based compounds settle on and in the live rock in the aquarium, as well as in and on the substrate that may be present in the aquarium."

the link..

http://w3page.com/fishline/microalgae.php

[royal gramma]

here it is..

"This being the case, why do these micro algae suddenly appear even though tank conditions and water quality do not account for such growth at all? It has been postulated and even proven that the long-term use of Kalkwasser precipitates phosphates out of the water (which Kalkwasser really does) and that these phosphate based compounds settle on and in the live rock in the aquarium, as well as in and on the substrate that may be present in the aquarium."

the link..

http://w3page.com/fishline/microalgae.php

Thanks Alan. Very informative indeed.

[alanseah]

welcome.... we all make reefing more enjoyable ma...

[keithtty]

Well maybe there are other reasons why your tank kH and Ca requirement is only that level.

Anyway, I shut up now... Sorry again Keith, couldn't resist myself....

No problem. And so the answer to my question is:

1. I should get a pH controller?

2. Still should properly characterize the bubble rate / drip rate based on my cpmsumption?

3. If tank consumption < what the calcium reactor, then I should further rig it up to a timer, preferable running when lit, to avoid pH dip?

Sounds like all opinions say 1 is necessary, right?

I appreciate the different opinions. Thanks guys!

[weileong]

A pH controller is highly recommended.

[hamannbmw]

sorry keith.. borrow yr thread, since we're all taking about CA, KH, effluent, maintaining the tank and so on.

I jus run my dual chamber CR for about 3 weeks, my Kh drops about 0.5-1 everyday. I've set my PH controller at 6.48 plug into my CR chamber. My CR will stops at about 6.47-6.48 and it will starts again around 6.52. My effluent is about 2 drops per sec same goes to my bubble count. BTW i'm using ARMS media, with 10% grotech magnesium

My Q is, should I :

1. increase bubble count together with effluent

2. increase effluent without touching bubble count

3. increase bubble count without touching effluent.

Those with experience please comments, no "cut n paste"

[keithtty]

Kalkwasser is known to sort of reduce PO4 but precipitating it out of solution but I'm not really sure of the actual reaction

Anyway, hows your anthias Keith?

I am using Kalk too, and I do have a algae problem that I am fighting. There are a few things that I should be, but am not doing, though.

Too much effort spent chasing shipment last weekend, leaves less time for maintenance. Gheez.

Blueheaven: my Anthias are fine. Now my wake up ritual includes feeding. I want to add a male blue eye, and dispar, and..... haha...someone stop me!