twice failed!where is the mistake?

[Jaslyn]

Hi,I m new here and require some assistance.I have setup a 3 ft tank with the help from a marine shop at Farmart in Dec04.Everything seems to go well until about 6 weeks later.All died within days.I was using a 3 ft tank,weipro SA2011 protein skimmer with air pump,cannister filter from Jebo868,undergravel sandbed filtration,light.I have 3 rocks in there.I put in 1 yellow tailed damsel fish after a week of 'conditioning' the water.Then I added in a small powder blue,a hawaiian tang,a maroon clown,an emporer after another week.Everything was going well for about 6 weeks and when I added in a small blue tang.Problem comes.It was first started to what the fish shop owner say its white spots so he wants me to dip the blue tang and add copper into the water but maintain lower than 0.3.The next day,the blue tang leaped off the water and died on the floor.Followed by the yellow tailed damsel.Then the emporer,powder blue and yellow tang died...I have done exactly what the book-the saltwater aquarium handbook by George Blasiola wrote.Observe the water parameter almost daily too.Salinity was 1.020.PH 8.2.KH 10.Nitrite was lower than the lowest measurement.I was using the testkit by Tetra.It was very heartpain that all work goes to waste,especially the death of the fish.

After that,thinking we might have the wrong info regarding setting the tank.We approached another marine fish shop near lavender.The guy came over to help me set up the tank.He basically removed everything in the tank.He used only 1 inch of sand,changed my jebo 868 to Eheim 2215,he also attached something that he says would absorp oil on the surface of the water.After 3 days,he added in about 10 damsels but after a week,only 3 survived.Then he added in royal gamma,maroon clown,yellow goby,some more yellow tailed damsel.After a week,only the maroon clown,royal gamma and 2 yellow tailed damsel is left till now.I bought a powder blue,a butterfly and a blennie but all died within days....I really dont know where goes wrong.

Can someone help me out in this as I really want to be success in having a marine tank.thanks for your time.

[roidan]

Hi,I m new here and require some assistance.

I have setup a 3 ft tank with the help from a marine shop at Farmart in Dec04.Everything seems to go well until about 6 weeks later.All died within days.

I was using a 3 ft tank,weipro SA2011 protein skimmer with air pump,cannister filter from Jebo868,undergravel sandbed filtration,light.I have 3 rocks in there.I put in 1 yellow tailed damsel fish after a week of 'conditioning' the water.

Then I added in a small powder blue,a hawaiian tang,a maroon clown,an emporer after another week.Everything was going well for about 6 weeks and when I added in a small blue tang.Problem comes.

It was first started to what the fish shop owner say its white spots so he wants me to dip the blue tang and add copper into the water but maintain lower than 0.3.The next day,the blue tang leaped off the water and died on the floor.Followed by the yellow tailed damsel.Then the emporer,powder blue and yellow tang died...I have done exactly what the book-the saltwater aquarium handbook by George Blasiola wrote.

Observe the water parameter almost daily too.Salinity was 1.020.PH 8.2.KH 10.Nitrite was lower than the lowest measurement.I was using the testkit by Tetra.It was very heartpain that all work goes to waste,especially the death of the fish.

After that,thinking we might have the wrong info regarding setting the tank.We approached another marine fish shop near lavender.The guy came over to help me set up the tank.

He basically removed everything in the tank.He used only 1 inch of sand,changed my jebo 868 to Eheim 2215,he also attached something that he says would absorp oil on the surface of the water.After 3 days,he added in about 10 damsels but after a week,only 3 survived.

Then he added in royal gamma,maroon clown,yellow goby,some more yellow tailed damsel.After a week,only the maroon clown,royal gamma and 2 yellow tailed damsel is left till now.

I bought a powder blue,a butterfly and a blennie but all died within days....I really dont know where goes wrong.

Can someone help me out in this as I really want to be success in having a marine tank.thanks for your time.

*easier on the eyes to read your case in parts*

[diabolus]

Hi,I m new here and require some assistance.

I have setup a 3 ft tank with the help from a marine shop at Farmart in Dec04.Everything seems to go well until about 6 weeks later.All died within days.

I was using a 3 ft tank,weipro SA2011 protein skimmer with air pump,cannister filter from Jebo868,undergravel sandbed filtration,light.I have 3 rocks in there.I put in 1 yellow tailed damsel fish after a week of 'conditioning' the water.

Then I added in a small powder blue,a hawaiian tang,a maroon clown,an emporer after another week.Everything was going well for about 6 weeks and when I added in a small blue tang.Problem comes.

It was first started to what the fish shop owner say its white spots so he wants me to dip the blue tang and add copper into the water but maintain lower than 0.3.The next day,the blue tang leaped off the water and died on the floor.Followed by the yellow tailed damsel.Then the emporer,powder blue and yellow tang died...I have done exactly what the book-the saltwater aquarium handbook by George Blasiola wrote.

Observe the water parameter almost daily too.Salinity was 1.020.PH 8.2.KH 10.Nitrite was lower than the lowest measurement.I was using the testkit by Tetra.It was very heartpain that all work goes to waste,especially the death of the fish.

After that,thinking we might have the wrong info regarding setting the tank.We approached another marine fish shop near lavender.The guy came over to help me set up the tank.

He basically removed everything in the tank.He used only 1 inch of sand,changed my jebo 868 to Eheim 2215,he also attached something that he says would absorp oil on the surface of the water.After 3 days,he added in about 10 damsels but after a week,only 3 survived.

Then he added in royal gamma,maroon clown,yellow goby,some more yellow tailed damsel.After a week,only the maroon clown,royal gamma and 2 yellow tailed damsel is left till now.

I bought a powder blue,a butterfly and a blennie but all died within days....I really dont know where goes wrong.

Can someone help me out in this as I really want to be success in having a marine tank.thanks for your time.

*easier on the eyes to read your case in parts*

i tot you were suppose to dish out advises?

[roidan]

got many knowledgeable and helpful reefers like you who can help also lah...

I am just here to maintain law & order

anyway let's not dilute the thread further, any reefers who wish to offer their advice for this reefer's problems, please do so

[jem]

Hmm..IMHO...don't rush to stock fish..be patient..slowly add in a fish week by week..this is to help u to monitor the fish u newly introduced to the tank..and find out its behaviour...

anyway..have u checked your nitrate level?..u said that u added 4 fishes after 2 weeks...it may be the cause of heavy bioload that your tank can't handle that cause the death of your fishes...try not to overstock too much..

get only expensive fishes after a month or so if you are confident but most experts recommend to let the tank cycle for 2 months before adding lifestock..

and also..in choosing fishes from LFS...be sure to monitor the fish closely..i spend up to half an hour in the shop just to watch the particular fish behaviour..before purchasing it..also..some people recommend to watch the fish a few days first in the LFS before purchasing it..

ask the LFS owner about the fish behaviour...if the bugger is eating, when was it brought into the LFS..also..check its tankmates condition..avoid purchasing it if you see any diseases on its fellow tankmate...

i am no experts but thats what i can advise..

[blueheaven]

Firstly, tell us what you intend to keep

[flying carpet]

You stock your livestock too fast. Did you use and bacteria to help break down the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite. Any carbon? I am also using a canister filter with undergravel and a weipro 2011. How old is your tank by the way?

regards

[hotlemond]

i tot you were suppose to dish out advises?

if you look at it carefully, our Cape Crusader is giving the threadstarter some advice, and one that extend more than just marine reefing

[acidjazz]

erm. . not much advice but don't trust every shop owner. . trust me some of them dunno wad they are doing. Usually when i go to a new LFS, e first thing i wld look is their display tank and set up, this wld roughly give me a guide to wheather e LFS is professional or. . . .

Perhpas u can get some of the senior reefers here to guide you along. .

[cornyfish]

Hi,I m new here and require some assistance.I have setup a 3 ft tank with the help from a marine shop at Farmart in Dec04.Everything seems to go well until about 6 weeks later.All died within days.I was using a 3 ft tank,weipro SA2011 protein skimmer with air pump,cannister filter from Jebo868,undergravel sandbed filtration,light.I have 3 rocks in there.I put in 1 yellow tailed damsel fish after a week of 'conditioning' the water.Then I added in a small powder blue,a hawaiian tang,a maroon clown,an emporer after another week.Everything was going well for about 6 weeks and when I added in a small blue tang.Problem comes.It was first started to what the fish shop owner say its white spots so he wants me to dip the blue tang and add copper into the water but maintain lower than 0.3.The next day,the blue tang leaped off the water and died on the floor.Followed by the yellow tailed damsel.Then the emporer,powder blue and yellow tang died...I have done exactly what the book-the saltwater aquarium handbook by George Blasiola wrote.Observe the water parameter almost daily too.Salinity was 1.020.PH 8.2.KH 10.Nitrite was lower than the lowest measurement.I was using the testkit by Tetra.It was very heartpain that all work goes to waste,especially the death of the fish.

After that,thinking we might have the wrong info regarding setting the tank.We approached another marine fish shop near lavender.The guy came over to help me set up the tank.He basically removed everything in the tank.He used only 1 inch of sand,changed my jebo 868 to Eheim 2215,he also attached something that he says would absorp oil on the surface of the water.After 3 days,he added in about 10 damsels but after a week,only 3 survived.Then he added in royal gamma,maroon clown,yellow goby,some more yellow tailed damsel.After a week,only the maroon clown,royal gamma and 2 yellow tailed damsel is left till now.I bought a powder blue,a butterfly and a blennie but all died within days....I really dont know where goes wrong.

Can someone help me out in this as I really want to be success in having a marine tank.thanks for your time.

Hmmm.. sounds like your fishes were casualties to an outbreak of ich...

[Fuzz]

I won't suggest adding copper into the main tank.

Also, take it easy on stocking up.

Blue Tangs> I believe you are refering to Regal Tang or "Dory" takes alot of patience to settle in. It needs optimum water conditions, and when first introduce, feed it with Garlic extracts.

I also use a UV to buffer. (Some people don't believe this works) But I've seen it work for me. the moment I off it, ick comes back.

I suggest you get a gd Protein Skimmer and preferably a sump or refugium.

You can check my tank (not the best tank) but I'm only using a 2.5ft tank. Never crash since day 1 when I first setup.

I NEVER use chemicals. Let the stock build it's own immune system, provide it with the best equipment or water perimeters as possible... do regular water changes. (eg. 10%/wk)

Hope this helps...

PS/ try to shorten the messages to parts. Not many will read such long messages...

[Achilles Tang]

Did you mention you put copper in a marine tank?

That's a definite No-No.

Can you give more info like how large are the fishes you bought, the amount of liverocks you have?

Also, I would advise against putting delicate fishes like tangs in a very new and unestablished tank. Same goes for angels.

A 3ft tank may be unsuitable for such fishes too if you overstock as they can get very territorial and fight, amounting to large amounts of stress and because they are sensitive fishes, they will succumb to parasites and infections.

1 week is certainly too short a time for a new hobbyist starting a newly established tank to start stocking up so quickly. Your biological filtration will not be able to cope with a sudden increase in bioload, and the change in water parameters will again stress your fishes.

I suggest you read up the basics of marine aquarium keeping pinned up in the New to the Hobby forum and to remember this saying: "Good things happen slowly in a marine tank but bad things happen very quickly".

Hope you'll pick up lessons learnt from many of us who were exactly like you when we first started and be a successful and responsible reefkeeper one day!

AT

[mantis]

Hi,

May I add that it seems u were moving too fast...adding to many fishes too quickly. It takes time for the biological filter to adjust to the bio-load even if the tank is cycled.

Patience is truely the key to success in this hobby.

I hv found that the re-creation of that beautiful, well-balanced piece of the ocean in a tank requires lots of time, efforts as well as continuous learning of not only the processes involved in maintaining the tank water at near seawater condition; BUT also the habits and nature of those beautiful creatures we very often introduced into our tank without careful research of their needs and nature. I, for one, am guilty of that as well....but I m learning control.

Don't lose hope. U were also (may I say) unlucky to encounter the 'evil' ICK so early in this pursue. Might I also add that the Powder Tang is relatively more prone to ICK than other more hardy fishes.

Try letting the tank cycle a longer period. Now that ICK may hv been introduced into your tank, u may hv to focus on getting rid of the ICK first before introducing fishes. Do some research here on ICK, the life-cycle of the parasites and hyposalination. Get more LRs to help with filtration process.

I hv attached a hyper-link which provides some basic information on fishes, coral, inverts...etc...U can use this as a database to do some read/research on the fishes u want to get before buying. Some fishes are aggressive, others are not compatible, while some are just too damn difficult to keep in an artificial environment.

FishyLink

Good Luck !

[Jaslyn]

wow,thanks for the advices from so many of them.

Thanks to Roidan for teaching me to space out my enquiry.

Both the LFS guy added live bacteria when they setted up the tank. I have 3 lives rocks in the tank.The yellowtail damsel is a very tiny one,probably 1.5cm. The tangs are about 2-3 inches.

Yes I agree that I get so many different advice from the LFS.I actually went to like 5 of them different part of singapore and they all gave me different idea.

Yes I also agree that I added fish too fast and should slow down. Another bad advice gotten from the LFS.

Now,my tank only left with a maroon clown,2 yellowtail damsel,1 royal gamma.Its the leftover residents since Feb05. In that tank,I have eihem cannister filter,1 inch sandbed and a battery operated skimmer. I dont know what should I do with it.... can I add any fish in there?Or should I just leave it there? I m fear of casualty.

[yiling]

no point putting live bacteria,

my skimmer skim like mad when i added it last time...

[Jaslyn]

The LFS at Farmart recommended us to use a weipro proterin skimmer but it overflow everytime and no matter how we adjust it,it just overflow.Then he recommended us to use battery operated one.... very confused to their advice

[veliferium]

Fistly,u should get a good skimmer in the first place,dun be like me,get an airstone skimmer then upgrade to macro skimmer...Tis is a waste of $$.

Secondly,have u tried tuning ur weipro skimmer,maybe u can add a ball valve to the piping to adjust the water level or be prepared to spend money on a smaller water pump

[yiling]

yeap, go get a better skimmer to take out more unwanted stuff .

IMO , i feel that a weirpro is not good enough...

but then again, if u practise regular water changes...

nothing is impossibe

[veliferium]

no point putting live bacteria,

Yes,i agree wif u ,tis is a waste of money especially to those on a tight budget like me...

Let the bacteria grow naturally by feeding them waste matter...

[Jaslyn]

I bought all the equipments according to the recommendation when I first started the 1st tank. The skimmer he told me to buy was stated for 6ft tank. I have tried tuning and do everything I could.I even brought it back to the store and now I m only using the airstone skimmer.

I have not changed the water of the current tank much but I top up water every week.How am I to know if the water condition is good after almost 4 months?

[veliferium]

WaH,wad kind of LFS is tat,weipro SA2011 suitable for 6ft,its maximum capacity is jus 3ft(correct me if i m wrong)..

Anyway,do u use testkits??Test ur water quality and try monthly water changes

[hotlemond]

In that tank,I have eihem cannister filter,1 inch sandbed and a battery operated skimmer. I dont know what should I do with it.... can I add any fish in there?Or should I just leave it there? I m fear of casualty.

Hmm.., is there a battery operated skimmer??

[RAV-65]

IMO, the skimmer should be upgraded...

I dun tink the cause of the death of the fish is the ich... only one fish had it as mentioned... and if the fish is healthy, it can live pretty long with ich, unless it's a serious outbreak whereby the fish is covered by lots of white spots...

More likely cause : Crabs from the rocks attacking the small fishes at night... you would be real surprised how big some of the crabs can be although u can swear u didn't see them when u added the rocks... I once caught a crab almost 1.5 inch in size ( including legs extended ), now this crab was hiding in one of the rocks when I added the rocks, there's another two about 1inch crabs in my tank that I'm still trying to add.

Another reason for the tangs to be die is the aggression in the tank, too many fish can also cause the fish to be stressed out... we're not the ocean...

Juz my $0.02... hope it helps..

[Jaslyn]

It was stated in the box that is for 6ft tank. A battery operated skimmer is like an air stone operated one.Weaker so it doesnt overflow.

I saw Fuzz's tank.Its amazing. But I was told that I would only need a chiller if I intend to keep corals right? And I was always adviced to keep only fish as beginner.

I use Tetra test kits for PH,KH,Nitrite...I tested the water including the salinity everyday when I first started the tank last Dec05.

[Jaslyn]

RAV-65, yes crabs.I caught 7 crabs inside the rocks when I couldnt find out the reason why the smaller damsels disappeared.Even they die also shouldnt disappear.Until one day I saw something dragging my yellow goby inside the rock.I removed every pieces of rocks to start my crab search and caught 7 of them.