Filter media for sump

[dreamzcape]

Hey bros running sumps, I would like to gather opinions and recommendations as to what you guys put for filter media in your sump.

I've heard bros who comment that bio balls,ceramics rings, biohome, etc etc in the end will bring up your nitrates. If i'm not wrong it's due to unfiltered detritus building up in the pores of the media(correct me if i'm wrong).

So does this mean if i have very effective mechanical filtration, my biomedia should not become nitrate factories?Coz personally for me i just have CR and biohome for my very last layer of filtration but before that are layers and layers of filter sponge.

Also for my second compartment(mine's a 2ft three compartment), i understand some people put DSB,liverock,mangroves,macroalgae or other things. Can have some relation of experiences as which seems to be most effective?

Just switched to sump so constantly looking for best possible methods to suit my needs and also hope it becomes a reference article to other bros so that they can understand the different views on filtration systems and filtration media.

thanks all

PS:not expecting hard and fast rules and must dos so hopefully flaming won't happen,just hoping to get more knowledge and passive experience.

[timzhiquan]

the reason why bio balls and other filtration media become nitrate factories is that they provide a place for aerobic bacteria to grow. it is this bacteria that breaks down ammonia into nitrite and eventually nitrate. however it is better to remove the ammonia even before it can be broken down. this can be done through the use of efficient protein skimming. if u have a powerful protein skimmer, any filtration media is unecessary IMO.

[bawater]

I've heard bros who comment that bio balls,ceramics rings, biohome, etc etc in the end will bring up your nitrates. If i'm not wrong it's due to unfiltered detritus building up in the pores of the media(correct me if i'm wrong).

True but not the whole truth, all the above does is provide a home to the bacteria- you can even use straws/hair curlers/plastic nets/coral chips/any aquarium filter sponge. Prefiltering detritus out is one way of removing the raw material before it becomes a never ending fuel source for the bacteria. Nitrate build up is due to a lack of export methods - be it water change,lots of liverock or one of the various other natural ways.

When nothing is done, it just builds up & before you know it in a few months you find NO3 levels hitting 100ppm. If you find low levels staying where they are like 10ppm-20ppm or even 30ppm, don't sweat it unless you run a full fledge sps tank. LPS/softies and fish only systems need not be nutrient void.

So does this mean if i have very effective mechanical filtration, my biomedia should not become nitrate factories?Coz personally for me i just have CR and biohome for my very last layer of filtration but before that are layers and layers of filter sponge.

If you don't clean the wool or sponges - its the same. But the biomedia will still work as normal housing the bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. If you have enough liverock, the rock will house enough bacteria for your bioload.

It does depend a lot on the system, but in any system - you would rather have Nitrate than ammonia or nitrite (which are toxic even at low levels)

Also for my second compartment(mine's a 2ft three compartment), i understand some people put DSB,liverock,mangroves,macroalgae or other things. Can have some relation of experiences as which seems to be most effective?

To have a effective DSB, you should hit for a size the same footprint as your main tank.(which is why DSB is usually in the main tank). To grow macro algae/mangroves just for export - you will need an ample amount or a fast grower to balance your load. Mostly ppl have a small area in the sump with algae to act as a refugium & at the same time help as a nitrate reduction method. For a 2ft sump, it leaves you with a 10cm or 20cm width space to play with - a DSB is out, so that leaves you to find a fast growing algae to suck up those nutrients,(caulerpa & ulva are fast growers)and lower your bioload.

Just switched to sump so constantly looking for best possible methods to suit my needs and also hope it becomes a reference article to other bros so that they can understand the different views on filtration systems and filtration media.

understood, its never easy to balance input vs export and many ppl are still doing it today. Once the basics are taken in- its just a matter of time until you find a working method for zero NO3.

[Alvin Tan]

jus FYI..my sump is 2.5ft in length n my filter media are as follows: filter wool,bio balls, filter mats, glass rings, phosguards and a weipro 2011..

u need not be afraid of the bio ball bcum a house for nitrits...as long as u place ur bio-balls jus below the filter wool..it would be safe bcos above it is a strainer which spreads the water flow evenly..therefore..water will rush down through those tiny holes and they can also help to flush those bio balls...so dun worry...

i recommend to use glass rings instead of ceramic rings and place it at the centre cubicle of ur sump..phosguard & carbon is necesssary but do not place it into ur sump for a long time if nt the situation will be reverse ...place it for a one week interval...

filter sponges muz be change regularly if not disease will acummulate and if new LS are intro into ur tank..the disease might spread into ur new LS..

the method of using 2 pumps is nt advisable becos the flowrate may nt be the same in long terms...to add on..if one pump is faulty..that means the whole cycling process must cease..so this method is not advisable..

if the thickness of ur tank is 6mm and above...u can bring it down to one of the tank maker lyk WAKAI..the tank maker will help u to drill holes for ur overflow system... jus my 2 cents

[dreamzcape]

i see..so it basically means that as long i've a powerful protein skimmer constantly running, i technically don't need external filtration with enough liverocks i presume. But that assumption is based on the fact that all the DOC is skimmed before it can be be converted.

That in mind, i guess it's better to have some sort of filtration anyway right?Because i'm intending to adopt a practise of turning of the skimmer for 2 hours whenever i add additives so the system has time to absorb and won't be skimmed out. any thoughts on that?

[Eric]

i see..so it basically means that as long i've a powerful protein skimmer constantly running, i technically don't need external filtration with enough liverocks i presume. But that assumption is based on the fact that all the DOC is skimmed before it can be be converted.

That in mind, i guess it's better to have some sort of filtration anyway right?Because i'm intending to adopt a practise of turning of the skimmer for 2 hours whenever i add additives so the system has time to absorb and won't be skimmed out. any thoughts on that?

For me, I using a 2.5ft sump for my 3ft tank. 1st compartment a skimmer follow by baffle plates to prevent bubbles carried over and 2nd compartment return pumps. Corner there's a 5" x 5" compartment for auto top-up. Thats all. Very simple and clean.

Any dirt/detritus get skim off in 1st compartment by the skimmer, some detritus might flow through to the 2nd compartment and go back to the tank, cos I running a total of 11000m3 return pump which makes the flow in the sump quite high. I do a water change of 1 pail once a week, mainly just ###### those carried over detritus that are resting in the 1st/2nd compartment.

This method has been very effective for me for the past 1yr.

Its a good pratice to off the skimmer for an hour upon dosing of additive if you have a very powerful skimmer.

Good luck!

Eric

[dreamzcape]

whoah bro like that u just rely on main tank liverock filtration ah? sounds like a good thing...since like that you won't have any media to produce extra nitrates. But don't you think it's being over reliant on skimmer and as such, once skimmer gone means basically system will be thrown into chaos?

[Eric]

whoah bro like that u just rely on main tank liverock filtration ah? sounds like a good thing...since like that you won't have any media to produce extra nitrates. But don't you think it's being over reliant on skimmer and as such, once skimmer gone means basically system will be thrown into chaos?

It's is very unlikely for the skimmer to break down cos of its simple technology. The only mechanical thing that could break a skimmer down is skimmer pump failure which can be replaced easily or the plugging of the venturi which can be easily cleaned.

Your tank wont crash suddenly if you loses your skimmer, a good amount of Live rocks and matured live sand should be the main biological filteration. It will be more than sufficent for your LS to survive. Of cos for your LS to be in good shape, other means of nutrients export is nessecary.

Eric

[taylapong]

I'm still very confused here..., got some questions below:

1) So, what causes nitrate build up? I seem to be hearing some varying reports. Let me explain. 1st reason: because ceramic rings, biohome, bio balls etc clog up and cause detritus to rot away. 2nd reason: because the stuff(ceramic rings, biohome, bio balls) contains too much bacteria and produces more nitrates.

2) Is it ok then not to have any form of mechanical filtration, except skimming?

3) Is DSB considered a nitrate export method?

thanks for your help!

[FuEl]

1) Nitrates build up when the export of nitrates can't keep up with the production of nitrate. Nitrates can be taken out in varying ways from anaerobic bacteria in functional DSBs and within liverock, to nutrient uptake by macroalgae. If you lack such ways to export nitrate, you should prevent nitrates from forming in the first place. As there is no way to limit the amount of aerobic bacteria which produces nitrates from ammonia, it would be logical to limit the source (ammonia). Reduce ammonia production by feeding wisely and keeping temperatures low to reduce metabolic rates. As ammonia is a breakdown product of protein, if you have a well functioning skimmer, the protein should be exported before it even ends up as ammonia. Thus this stops the whole biological cascade which eventually forms nitrates.

2) Yes. I did'nt use any mechanical filtration in my sump. I just used a sand bed for biological filtration. The thing with mechanical filtration is that it needs frequent maintenance. If you get lazy, it results in more harm than good. That's why many reefers stopped using canister filters (They have to clean it too often).

3) DSBs need a long time to be fully operational. For new tanks, don't rely on your DSB for nitrate export in the beginning. Pump up the skimming, do your water changes, and you should be fine.

[taylapong]

Wow fuel! THanks!

I've got another question: when you don't use mechanical, then how often do you suck out the detritus from your sump?

I'm planning my tank now, and was thinking of chanelling the water to a low flow area, where detritus can settle, then i can just suck everything out from there. think it'll work? so there's still mechanical, but not in the form of wool and all, jsut a collection of waste in some corner of the sump where i cna just suck all out.

[zephyros]

hi,

my sump set up

1st compartment - filter wool - replace every week

2nd compartment - FR for phosphate removal

3rd compartment - skimmer

4th compartment - GAC for other toxin removal

cheers

[Flame-Tail]

I've got another question: when you don't use mechanical, then how often do you suck out the detritus from your sump?

I clear all the detritus every week when I do my 10% water change.

[ong2ah]

Hello, juz wanna add to the topic u guys are discussing.... is putting live rock in the sump an outdated method??... Nowadays seldom heard people doing that... btw i put abt 4 pieces of medium sized LR in the 1st compartment of my sump.... before the water from the tank will get filtered by cotton wool b4 entering the 1st compartment of my sump... Is LR a gd host for housing anaerobic bacteria?? Will they become a nitrate factory..if too much detritus is trapped in the LR?? would like some opinions..