Two Casino in Singapore.....

[flying carpet]

All we can do now is just wait. Last time the people interest comes first but now money interest comes first. In this case the people got no say even after various religious leader rejected the idea, news still come out about 'casino' 'casino'. Well at least we know that part of the cement or brick used to bulid the casino comes from our pocket.

[weisoon]

seriously, i'm divided about this topic.

u see. MM Lee made a sensible pt.. "If we don't build a casino, other people will, and we'll lose out." we cannot simply live on our huge reserves, we must try to find a solution to make quick bucks. from, the 1970s onwards, our industry is based on labour-intensive, then the focus shifted to shipping and stuff. we tried to do microchips but failed, so now we are oly left with 3 options- medical hub, educational hub or casino. apparently, those ppl up there think that building a casino is the fastest way to earn bucks.

Like what I said, Singapore has 'priced' itself into an expensive labour economy. Our only assets are our labour force and now its so expensive to do business here. China is so much cheaper.......give you an example: In Shanghai, a normal restaurant waiter/waitress only takes RMB$800 to RMB$1000 average per month and thats about SGD$160 to SGD$200. Of course you may say that cost of living there is cheap, but in reality it is not. No doubt food items are cheap but housing and cars are not cheap in local standard.

If Singapore chooses route to medical or educational hub, who will benefit? I will think not the normal average income earning citizens but rather the professionals like doctors and educators. How many can become doctors and educators? So what will still happen to the average citizens?

Thailand will be a better example in terms of their labour management and how well the government has manage it IMHO.

[flying carpet]

I WAS Not in favour of Casio. However , after thinking out of the box, than I realize that we have NO CHOICE.

So guys, can you think out of the box thinking. Rather than sticking into broken family. If economy not good there will be broken family too ( cause they can't support family ).

Thinak again with High EQ PLEASE.

I am giving this view with a very low I.Q. But will casino solve the problem of broken family? Go figure. Broken family does not mean broken dreams/future. You say think out of the box. Come on we are all being caged here that's why we have no say! Yes casino may boost the economy. The word is MAY BOOST but not confirm. What about crime rate? Corruption? Prostitution? Debts? Addiction? Ah Long harrassing your neighbour? One positive point against tons of negative point. I pray that when the casino really opens HAPPINESS, PROSPERITY AND PROGRESS still exist!

[lightningstrike]

it's a slap in the face to those who are against the casino.. now not only one casino.. got TWO casinos... it's crazy! so small island u want 2 casinos...

Oh well... so when are we going? HEhehe

it's not a matter of when we r going, my friend........

it's where are we heading???

p.s. healthy discussion pls....... there r signs that this is turning out to be a flaming thread........ sigh........

[RAV-65]

Wahahaha... 2 casinos! So we were out-smarted again....?

To borrow Bro Lightningstrike's disclaimer, can't tink of a better one myself :

The above-mentioned comments r made purely in my humble opinion only, no political, religious, or whatsoever agenda were intended. I shall not be held responsible for the misuse, reprint, or whatsoever of the above-mentioned comments.

[AquaRa]

the issue here is: is there no better alternative? (don't ask me for a solution)

[Ekia]

All we can do now is just wait. Last time the people interest comes first but now money interest comes first. In this case the people got no say even after various religious leader rejected the idea, news still come out about 'casino' 'casino'. Well at least we know that part of the cement or brick used to bulid the casino comes from our pocket.

Last time we could afford to reject a casino because the travel sector was booming and there were lots of tourists coming to Singapore for Sentosa, Zoo, Birdpark etc etc. But now, these places had already lose the ability to attract tourists to stay in Singapore longer. Singapore's economy is quite dependent on tourism and thats the reason why we had such a top-class Zoo which is quite well-known around the world. Since it has lose its ability to attract tourists, we had to think of something else to replace it.

If I'm not wrong, the 2 casinos are not just purely casinos. It's more of a intergrated resort like Crown in Melbourne with a theme park(Genting Bhd. is joining bid with Unviersal Studio's theme park), hotels, restaurants, shopping etc etc. Imagine the amount of money it could bring in if all tourists extend their stay for one more day to visit this resort. Their hotel stay, food, shopping etc etc. It adds up to quite a lot. Not to say the huge amount of jobs that would be generated.

This is just only the economy side. Of course, everyone is concern about the social problems that could arise. When minsmarine said was correct, if one day we really couldn't compete competitively with neighbouring countries and our GDP started to fall until we reach recession. We could have a problem there too. It will be too late to do something by then.

I won't pay $100 just to go into the casino! Haven't go in already lose $100!!!!!!!

[flying carpet]

it's not a matter of when we r going, my friend........

it's where are we heading???

p.s. healthy discussion pls....... there r signs that this is turning out to be a flaming thread........ sigh........

[XPeriment 626]

You cannot use the argument that there is already gambling in Singapore to justify bringing in a casino. The problem with a casino is that it is a purpose-built environment to feed gamblers' excitement and the desire to try their luck, with the idea that the next throw of the dice will erase all your past losses. In addition, the easy provision of credit will allow people who are already "high" and not thinking about their losses to walk over and borrow more money before walking back to the table to gamble, all under the same roof.

The idea of an entrance fee, no-credit to locals and other supposed regulations are fanciful ideas. You think after spending $5 billion building casinos, if the locals aren't coming in large numbers, the casino operators will not lean on the govt to relax the rules? If the Govt can force the people to accept a casino despite all the public outcry, how easy will it be to dispense with all these entry requirements somewhere down the road, maybe even just one year later? Studies have shown that ALL casinos that are successful internationally need a large proportion of local gamblers to sustain business. Local in this case = Singaporeans spending hard earned money at the expense of their families.

It is easy to look at the "economic argument" (how many jobs, how much money will be spent building the place etc etc) but in reality it is much more complex. The intangible economic cost (loss in productivity, money spent in casino rather than other sectors of economy etc) plus the social cost might just be more than the benefit. In truth, SINGAPOREANS LEAD TOO COMFORTABLE A LIFE. We cannot imagine what a broken society even looks like, and we think we can manage a casino, a sanitized gaming resort. Nonsense. Everything is inter-related and we are bringing in something far different from the other risky ventures we have done in the past.

Time will tell how this goes. Let's all pray that Singapore doesn't become a crime-ridden nation led by a corrupt Govt who only have $$$ on their minds.

---------------------------------------------------

The above-mentioned comments r made purely in my humble opinion. No political, religious, or whatsoever agenda were intended, but if politicians want to read this and take notice and take action or whatever just go ahead.

[shoelevy]

hi guys.

some were suprised about 2 casinos being opened

actually, if one was carefully monitoring what was in papers and what government officials were saying, you could kinda guess 2 was coming upz

anyway, IMO, creating more jobs is not much for singaporean but for foreign labour cause cheaper

and i guess most could tell government already fixed on building casino.

tell you guys what I THINK will happen: now government put entrance fee and impose max expenditure of individual...eventually, they will relax on this...then no more entrance fee...then no max amt a person can spend will go up up up...then eventually, no more such rules like bro Xperiment 626 mentioned...why?...cos i think more money government won't hiam ma...

anyway, elections coming right?...if majority of locals not happy then PAP siao liao...

PS: all opinions expressed above are purely MY opinions and are by no means a source of flaming to government or anyone who disagrees with my opinions. ONLY TIME WILL TELL WHAT WILL HAPPEN

[alanseah]

anyway, elections coming right?...if majority of locals not happy then PAP siao liao...

PS: all opinions expressed above are purely MY opinions and are by no means a source of flaming to government or anyone who disagrees with my opinions. ONLY TIME WILL TELL WHAT WILL HAPPEN

Got voting in SG meh.... go check around.. how many ppls never even vote in his life.....

Before they even lose a single site...they declare that site win without voting..

[jc85]

I WAS Not in favour of Casio. However , after thinking out of the box, than I realize that we have NO CHOICE.

So guys, can you think out of the box thinking. Rather than sticking into broken family. If economy not good there will be broken family too ( cause they can't support family ).

Thinak again with High EQ PLEASE.

Agree. Its all abt survival in the new economy. Like I mentioned in another thread, what does you guys see Singapore heading to in like 10 - 20yrs down the road? Obviously, tourism is one big contributor (rem gov is spending $10bilion to develop this industry?).

Seriously, think abt it.

My 2 cts

JC

[jc85]

If Singapore chooses route to medical or educational hub, who will benefit?  I will think not the normal average income earning citizens but rather the professionals like doctors and educators.  How many can become doctors and educators? So what will still happen to the average citizens?

Medical and Educational industry is definitely two of the industries Singapore have to beg our horses on. The problem is how much can both of these industry contribute to the GDP and job creation? They are defintely not enough.

This lead us to BioTech & BioMed. These are in the infant stage and frankly, I pray that this will work else, I seriously do not see a future in Singapore in 20yrs time.

Thus Tourism will be important to Singapore and Casino with its integrated theme park will be key to attract them, not once but repeative visit.

Cheers

JC

[jc85]

It is easy to look at the "economic argument" (how many jobs, how much money will be spent building the place etc etc) but in reality it is much more complex. The intangible economic cost (loss in productivity, money spent in casino rather than other sectors of economy etc) plus the social cost might just be more than the benefit. In truth, SINGAPOREANS LEAD TOO COMFORTABLE A LIFE. We cannot imagine what a broken society even looks like, and we think we can manage a casino, a sanitized gaming resort. Nonsense. Everything is inter-related and we are bringing in something far different from the other risky ventures we have done in the past.

Its a valid point that there'll definteily be some intangible economic cost. The question is how much and do bear in mind that the plan is not to just build a casino. The plan is to have a entertainment hub with Casino or vice versa.

Questions I will ask myself is; do you think Singapore will have the means to counter those negative influence from a casino like crime, loanshark, pros, etc. Do you have faith in the NEW leaders to lead Singapore to the NEW Century?

If your answers are no, imho, think of migration but bear in mind, does the country you migrating to aleady have a casino or such?

Just my 2cts.

JC

[jc85]

As expected, there'll be measures taken. http://www.asia1.com/st/st_20050419_312221.html

Extracted:

There will be measures to protect Singaporeans against the ills of casino gambling, including a high entrance fee and a ban on credit.

Those in financial distress will be kept out, as will those whose families want them excluded.

There will be a National Council on Gambling to address issues related to problem gambling.

There will also be measures to ensure resort operators do not tarnish Singapore's reputation as a safe and wholesome place for families.

Home Affairs Minister Wong Kan Seng outlined tough measures to keep gaming-related crime firmly out of Singapore, including a new regulatory body and more police enforcement focusing on casino gambling.

[lightningstrike]

As expected, there'll be measures taken. http://www.asia1.com/st/st_20050419_312221.html

Extracted:

There will be measures to protect Singaporeans against the ills of casino gambling, including a high entrance fee and a ban on credit.

Those in financial distress will be kept out, as will those whose families want them excluded.

There will be a National Council on Gambling to address issues related to problem gambling.

There will also be measures to ensure resort operators do not tarnish Singapore's reputation as a safe and wholesome place for families.

Home Affairs Minister Wong Kan Seng outlined tough measures to keep gaming-related crime firmly out of Singapore, including a new regulatory body and more police enforcement focusing on casino gambling.

Countermeasures wouldn't hv been necessary if there isn't a problem created in the first place......... so in a way, is this what the government implies when they say it is creating more jobs for ppl? casino operators (croupiers, F&B, etc), extra security (policemen, etc), development of SS (loansharks, etc)........... the list juz goes on and on.

there will hardly be a right and wrong answer in the near future......... qns is will the pros outweigh the cons........

p.s. my disclaimer stays.

[seamonkee]

I am DEAD against the idea of casino... call me idealistic or whatever... If the government is so sure that we can handle it? Why ask for opinions in the first place? Why set preventive measures then? Because they know we CANT manage it... it is such an oxy-moron....

I am so sick of the government asking for people's opinion when they already have somewhat a concrete decision. It's sort of like a slap in the face to say... yeah... we DID ask you and this is a democratic country.... but we can't ignore the 49% (it is still a majority) who wants a casino... (**)(*@#$)(#@

So next time voting if a particular PAP constituency lose out and obtain a 49% vote during general election... then they also win loh... because they can say 49% is still a majority of people who loves PAP... wah lao....

Just to share... I know I lost my chances with a potential job in Sentosa because I said I was against casino idea right in the face of one of the committee member....

Anyway, go ask any tourists what they feel about Singapore and they will mostly tell you they are attracted to the place because of the near-zero crime rate, the green and clean city... these are the intangible features that priced our country as a top attraction place... we seem to have forgotten that...

[minsmarine]

Singapore has near zero crime rate, green and clean city, it's make for foreigner to settle down in Singapore ( It's how I settled down here ), I don't think it's for Toursit. Are you sure you will visit Singapore, because it's no crime and green and clean, no way. Even if , where are you going to spent money ?

I do believe gov is doing their very best to bring economy up. While economy up, all of us benefit ( yes gov benefit the most ). However, if economy down, all of us suffer. Think difficult to find job, can't sell your car, house to pay back loan. Banks are cheasing because they have short fall in their profit. It's happening NOW.

By brining Casino + Park, will boot Construction Sector First ( it's almost dying ), than hotels , than B&B. Yes we have to employed some foreigner, but it's also contribute to economy. They have to eat, shop, move around. All those contribute to economy. Now economy is almost mature. After mature than we will be seeing heading south.

Crime, broken family, prostitute, loan shark will alway be there with or without casio. It's matter of how socity react.

Therefore, whether we have right to vote or not, please see from the economy point of view. There are so many jobless ppl outthere, some of them are already 1 year plus looking for job. So First we need to solve economy problem, otherwise family broken, crime , prostitiute, loan shark will rise cause unemployment is getting high.

[seamonkee]

We know the real reason why we are all jobless.... it's never about the economy..... its about expanding the profit pockets of corporate biggies... from my own experience and those of my friends..... BTW, I am jobless myself.... for more than a year...

It's a two different issue all together... think corporate downsizing, restructuring.... these are words used to maximise profits for big bosses.... never was it an issue of economy... in any way.... from what I see or heard and experienced myself...

How many times have I seen this happen that I am getting so sick of it? My theory is simply this:

Back in our father's days... the power of the union was never tried or tested. All employers never had the guts to downsize or take such drastic measures because of the union in place.... and we all know that the granddaddy of all unions is partial government too....

Think back in the past five years or so.... who started all these downsizing, corporate "restructuring" crap... the need to be lean or whatever shit to have more and more profits... u know which "BIG BIG corporation" I am talking about... They set the pace for downsizing and created a norm for other employers to follow.... because when this "BIG BIG corporation" go about doing their business of taking over companies and making changes, the granddaddy of all union has to shut up and abide.... I seen it happen, I see my union leader being asked not to interfere and just follow with the change... for the "sake" of the organisation... damn....

Because this BIG BIG corporation has set such a norm, employers (be it private or government) are becoming more gutsy..... now that they know and have seen the so-called "power" of unions... So now the world truly belongs to the employers... at their mercy... go for an interview these days compared to 5 years ago.. u will feel the tone difference used....

I've been tracking the progress of my previous company for a year... yeah, profit is definitely bigger now because of the staff they retrenched or forced to leave... never was it about better performance... sales figure were almost the same... according to sources...

Back to the topic:

Of course, we dun visit a country purely because of its zero crime rate, clean and green factors.... I brought it up because these are the intangible assets that we as Singaporeans are proud of... now, we are subjecting these values to a possible loss with the emergence of a casino... I hope it remains crime free, clean and green...

Now I know where to put my vote in... provided I have the chance to vote...

[seamonkee]

Yeah, entrance fee and ban credit.... blah....

Our ministers themselves are not gamblers and they will never know the mentality of a gambler...

$100 is nothing to an additive gambler... that's peanuts to them.... My uncle won $20,000 on one gambling trip.... that would sustain him another 200 visits to lose 200 times of $20,000....

Ban credit? That's happy news to loan sharks.... talk about keeping social ills at norm? isn't such a measure promoting it, conversly speaking?

Gosh, I'm still stunned at the decision our government has arrived at...

If they truly have the interest to test the casino on the market? Shouldn't it be one first? Even the laws of science favour single subjects for experiment purposes... this allow better monitoring or so.... Having two casinos? What does it show? You need two casinos to test market?

[wolfie]

personally, IMHO i feel that given the "surprise" that our garmen has given to us, their humble servants, there's no point sulkin' abt it. A decision has been made and the execution with come soon after. In fact, we all know that the moment the casino idea was announced, there're no way the garmen will give up on the idea. in addition, i'm certain that many sg think tanks were also against the idea. thus, perhaps we should concentrate on how can we prevent the probs that we've been (tryin') to warn our garmen abt? or perhaps it is time to make some noise to lower our taxes? i dunno. i jus tot we should assist in fine-tunin' this tough decision.

cheers.

[aStRoBo|]

weisoon seems to be very agree to having casino in sg.. just hope no one will be appearing at the front page on the newspaper. even if so, shld feel proud, first to die for sg casino.

[lightningstrike]

weisoon seems to be very agree to having casino in sg.. just hope u are not the next one tat appear at the front page of the newspaper. 

weisoon is juz stating how he feels and if u come to realise, it's the crude hard fact (at least that's the way i see it 2).

sigh........ healthy discussions pls....... no personalised attacks.........

[aStRoBo|]

Got voting in SG meh.... go check around.. how many ppls never even vote in his life.....

Before they even lose a single site...they declare that site win without voting..

tat's so true. but jack neo's firm, i do i do, always 'shoot' at the government. "U all got elected even b4 we voted." Just draw them under the same GRC will do. Den no elections are needed. Ok back to the topic. Since the casino is not big enough, some have already feedback it will lose it's crowd eventually. Den i would rather the government to build a F1 racing track than a casino. *only based on my own opinion.

[aStRoBo|]

weisoon is juz stating how he feels and if u come to realise, it's the crude hard fact (at least that's the way i see it 2).

sigh........ healthy discussions pls....... no personalised attacks.........

yeah bro, i already edited the thread. no personal attacks.