Cupramine Treatment

[seamonkee]

Some bros here know I already set up a quarantine tank.... hehe.. lucky me.... neighbour gave me two 2-foot tank with stand as quarantine...

Juz thought I start this thread to monitor my progress...

Subject : Sailfin Tang (Only survivor of ich onslaught in my main tank)

Condition : No spots on it but still need to quarantine and copper treat (in case)

Transferred to 2 foot tank with overflow and PVC pipes for shelter

Water Salinity at 1.022

Copper Treatment Cycle recommended by Seachem (Cupramine) is 16 days. 2 days to accimitise at lower dosage and 14 days at full dosage.

15 Feb

Added cupramine to 2 foot tank. Copper reading at 0.025mg.

16 Feb

Tang not feeding.... looking "drowsy" and colour darkened.... signs of stress. Changed 20% water to lower dosage. I was worried....

17 Feb

Tang swimming happily and colour back to normal... raised dosage back to 0.025mg in morning. By night, he still look ok.... I gave him some nori seaweed soaked in garlic and he was feeding like a pig!!! Yeah!!!!

See how tomorrow.... because I need to raise the dosage to 0.5mg for the copper treatment to be effective....

[seamonkee]

here's a pix of the newly established quarantine tank....

The bottom tank is for weekly replacement water change.... or in case the fish goes into shock or whatever....

[seamonkee]

The light, tanks and stand was free from my neighbour who was a luohan craze.. hahahaha... lucky me... acrylic tank like this cost about $20 or more each... but compared to my fish losses earlier...

As per Henry (Marine Life) advice, a hanging top filter is good enough... no carbon or chemical filter as it will take away the copper....

The filter is the only piece of equipment I bought.... powerheads were from my storeroom...

So bros, if you have any ich-infested fish and you want to give them up... pass to me to experiment experiment hor.....

hahah...

[jc85]

Looking gd. Keep track of the NH4 and NO2, change water if needed.

Do keep us posted on ur progress.

JC

[patrick123]

Can you share what brand of copper do you use? Any pic?

[seamonkee]

Can you share what brand of copper do you use? Any pic?

This is what I use.... must order in advance with LFS because the product don't really sell so they dun carry it on the shelf... I got a 100ml... which honestly is enough to last you very very long...

Only 1.5ml needed for 15 gallons (standard 2 ft tank) for a full dosage at 0.5mg.

Anyway, PLEASE don't use this in your main tank... It is SOLELY for fishes with the exception of sharks, rays or any cartilage fishes.... your inverterbrates, corals will DIE from it....

Also, must be bought in conjunction with a copper test kit. I got a salifert copper test kit... because underdose will be ineffective and overdosge will be demental to your fishes....

Cheers!

[patrick123]

Thanks for the info. Just wondering why don't you try out hyposalinity first? It is free and lower risk than copper. So far, it has always work for me.

[seamonkee]

Thanks for the info.  Just wondering why don't you try out hyposalinity first?  It is free and lower risk than copper.  So far, it has always work for me.

My main tank is in hyposalinity fallow state now to eradicate remaining ich...

As for my sole survivor, the sailfin tang.... I am giving copper treatment a shot to try out first... since I have established a quarantine tank.

Actually, hyposalinity is not 100% effective against ich after some reading up that I did. And in reality, it can also be demental to fishes if kept too long in that state and also if the hyposalinity is not properly monitored with a refractometer. For ich to be eradicated, it has to be done in at least 1.008.... which in my opinion, way too low for fishes and scary for me to try out.

BTW, it is also discovered that there are now "variants" of iches that can survive in low salinity stage....

I am using copper also because I want to establish it as a standard procedure for all my further new fish additions. I won't be wasting saltwater too since it will be used from the discarded water from my main tank during water changes.

[hotlemond]

bro seamonkee,

are you also on hyposalinity on the hospital tank?

Looking forward to the results.

[seamonkee]

bro seamonkee,

are you also on hyposalinity on the hospital tank?

Looking forward to the results.

Nope.... it is dangerous to do a hypo and copper treatment together...

I kept the salinity at 1.020 in the quarantine tank... only slightly lower to allow the fish to breathe better... nothing lower than that...

[blackpuma]

Hi Seamonkey,

Take heart, you are not the only one with a total wipe out. Me too, many years ago when I was keeping marines, I suffered the same fate too. I added a powder blue tang to my tank as this fish should be added last in any collection. Being a itch magnet, the @&$* fish was infected with velvet, a disease much potent than itch. In no time all my other fishes were infected, one by one went up the lorry. In those day, there is this product call waterlife Myxazin, a LR and reef safe remedy for itch, being a 5 footer, I had to dose a LOT of Myxazin. As expected, reef safe medication will not work for itch or velvet and the only treatment for itch and velvet is cheleated copper.

Many years later, I am starting this wonderful hobby again and is now the proud owner of a 3 footer. I have stocked the tank with mainly easy to keep wrase and clownfishes over a period of 3 months.

Until my QT is up, I will refrain from buying the "exotics" like tangs and angel. I have already chanced when I did not quarantine the 2 wrasses and clownfish that I have now.

Most LFS in Singapore will sell you life stock with no questioned asked, with the exception of a few. The atitude of the LFS has not changed over the years, please come back for more if your fish die. A very well known LFS recommended me a Mandarin knowing very well that I have a recenly matured FOWLR. I have also come across a few good ones and was turned away twice by a LFS when I told them my tank was less than a month old. These are the LFS that I truely respect and support. The good ones are few and far in between or they have gone out of business.

From this forum, I can see a lot of reefers have reach world standards but sadly the atitude of the LFS have a lot of catching up to do.

It's a bit longish but I have said my piece.

[seamonkee]

Hi Seamonkey,

Take heart, you are not the only one with a total wipe out. Me too, many years ago when I was keeping marines, I suffered the same fate too. I added a powder blue tang to my tank as this fish should be added last in any collection. Being a itch magnet, the @&$* fish was infected with velvet, a disease much potent than itch. In no time all my other fishes were infected, one by one went up the lorry. In those day, there is this product call waterlife Myxazin, a LR and reef safe remedy for itch, being a 5 footer, I had to dose a LOT of Myxazin. As expected, reef safe medication will not work for itch or velvet and the only treatment for itch and velvet is cheleated copper.

Many years later, I am starting this wonderful hobby again and is now the proud owner of a 3 footer. I have stocked the tank with mainly easy to keep wrase and clownfishes over a period of 3 months.

Until my QT is up, I will refrain from buying the "exotics" like tangs and angel. I have already chanced when I did not quarantine the 2 wrasses and clownfish that I have now.

Most LFS in Singapore will sell you life stock with no questioned asked, with the exception of a few. The atitude of the LFS has not changed over the years, please come back for more if your fish die. A very well known LFS recommended me a Mandarin knowing very well that I have a recenly matured FOWLR. I have also come across a few good ones and was turned away twice by a LFS when I told them my tank was less than a month old. These are the LFS that I truely respect and support. The good ones are few and far in between or they have gone out of business.

From this forum, I can see a lot of reefers have reach world standards but sadly the atitude of the LFS have a lot of catching up to do.

It's a bit longish but I have said my piece.

I totally agree..... that's why now I advocate QT practices after my expensive lessons...

What pepper treatment and stuff in main tank... to be honest, dun really work if you do a complete review on websites...

Copper still works and in this hobby, nothing beats having a quarantine tank.... it is an essential piece of your equipment very much like your protein skimmer...

Of course, which LFS we go to is also very important. I dun trust LFS anymore and their so called jacking up prices because their fishes are "better"... yeah, when the fish just arrived the day before.... what quarantine did they do to make it better and jack up the price?

I am doing my own QT and I'm going slow too....

The problem with this hobby is that fishes are essentially plentiful (since they are mostly from neighbouring countries).... that's why the attitude of "die already buy again..." and to be honest, most reefers are still not seeing the need of a QT tank (I am once guilty of it so I dare to say this).... it's a vicious cycle...

I'm starting to honestly question the way we keep this hobby... including myself.... I've heard of people keeping their fishes alive for 10 years or more overseas... but why not us? If only we take the effort to do more reading up... (if only I had done more voracious reading earlier), then such lessons need not be repeated...

Cheers!

[seamonkee]

Cupramine dosage was raised to the recommende level of 0.5mg yesterday morning...

Sailfin tang is doing very well...

BTW, I still need a test subject (one that is full of ich on body) to give this quarantine try out a 100% proof...

[jc85]

Cupramine dosage was raised to the recommende level of 0.5mg yesterday morning...

Sailfin tang is doing very well...

BTW, I still need a test subject (one that is full of ich on body) to give this quarantine try out a 100% proof...

If u add another ich fish, wun you be risking ur sailfin infected again?

JC

[seamonkee]

If u add another ich fish, wun you be risking ur sailfin infected again?

JC

I have two quarantine tanks....

[moorish_idol]

Some bros here know I already set up a quarantine tank.... hehe.. lucky me.... neighbour gave me two 2-foot tank with stand as quarantine...

Juz thought I start this thread to monitor my progress...

Subject : Sailfin Tang (Only survivor of ich onslaught in my main tank)

Condition : No spots on it but still need to quarantine and copper treat (in case)

Transferred to 2 foot tank with overflow and PVC pipes for shelter

Water Salinity at 1.022

Copper Treatment Cycle recommended by Seachem (Cupramine) is 16 days. 2 days to accimitise at lower dosage and 14 days at full dosage.

15 Feb

Added cupramine to 2 foot tank. Copper reading at 0.025mg.

16 Feb

Tang not feeding.... looking "drowsy" and colour darkened.... signs of stress. Changed 20% water to lower dosage. I was worried....

17 Feb

Tang swimming happily and colour back to normal... raised dosage back to 0.025mg in morning. By night, he still look ok.... I gave him some nori seaweed soaked in garlic and he was feeding like a pig!!! Yeah!!!!

See how tomorrow.... because I need to raise the dosage to 0.5mg for the copper treatment to be effective....

U started on 15 FEB< so it is 2 month plus liao wat is the result?

HOw is the salfin?

[seamonkee]

I realised I type the month wrongly... ... it should be Apr not Feb....

[hotlemond]

aiya.., and make us all kun cheong

hope to hear good result from you soon. Its good knowledge we can pick up from here. Cheers

[Lester]

hi bro ...

hmmm just asking .. are u doing free treatment for reefer with sick fish ?? if yes that will be good..

cheers

[seamonkee]

hi bro ...

hmmm just asking .. are u doing free treatment for reefer with sick fish ?? if yes that will be good..

cheers

Hahahaha... cannot lah.... heavy liability leh... what if the fish dies? Then I kenna $#(@*#$_@....

I just set up quarantine for my own tank so testing out the procedures for cupramine treatment and all... after my heavy $$$$ lesson of just throwing new fishes into main tank...

Bottomline, ALL Reefers should and must have quarantine tank lah.... if u ask me honestly...

Also, no point fish cured and returned to owners with lousy or poorly committed tank water quality...

[hotlemond]

bro seamonkee,

do you use UV in main or Q tank? Some folks appluase thier UV for playing a part in curing/preventing ich.

[seamonkee]

bro seamonkee,

do you use UV in main or Q tank? Some folks appluase thier UV for playing a part in curing/preventing ich.

UV (according to some write-ups) doesnt really help 100% in your battle against ich... Ich has three stages in life cycle... the UV only help kill some of the free swimming ones.....

Remember one adult can produce up to 200 little iches.... before the UV can kill all, some will already find their fish host and attach to the fish's body....

[seamonkee]

Here's an update

24 Aor - Test subject: Sailfin Tang is doing well... vibrant colours and all.... however, stop feeding on nori seaweed

25 Apr - Tried enticing with other food, Ocean Nutrition pellets and frozen mysis.... ate the frozen mysis but skipped the pellets. Begin to worry, siphon uneaten foodand change 30% of water to lower copper concentration to 0.25mg

26 Apr - Tried enticing with seaweed again but totally ignore.... gave mysis shrimp and he ate like a pig... Conclusion, he has taken a liking for mysis shrimp....

[Lester]

hmmm bro u can open fish hosipital good work cheers

[seamonkee]

Here's something I sent to Bob Fenner regarding copper and here's his reply (in red).... Just to share with you all....

Hi!

<Hello>

Recently, I have an outbreak of ich in my FOWLR display tank having after intro an infected new fish... I have remove all the survivors from the display tank and put them into quarantine with copper treatment (I am using Seachem Cupramine).  Will be leaving my display tank fallow for 8 weeks so I took the time to do some rescaping.

<Okay>

I happen to catch a hitchhiking pistol shrimp  (about 1 inch in size) on one of the live rock and decided to carry out an experiment on it.  Cruel I may be but I really wanted to know the true effectiveness of copper against ich (since I learnt that copper can be deadly to inverts).  I place the pistol shrimp into a small container and add cupramine solution (of copper 0.5mg) and leave it there for 3 days, it is still alive.... I raise the copper level to 1.0mg and for four days amazingly, the fellow is still alive....

<Happens>

Now, I'm really curious about the true effectiveness of Copper....  Is it truly deadly as it claims to invert?  What's the catch here?

Thanks

<Copper, when coupled with chelating, sequestering agents like alkanoamines can indeed be rendered less toxic... and less effective in its intended use/s... Bob Fenner>