advice & help needed on diy overflow pipes

[jonathan543]

hi... i had a diy overflow pipes done by a fellow reefer identical to wad melvin had built for the past few days & noticed a few problems & hope someone can enlighten me.

setup: i had a 2x1x1ft refugium placed higher than my main 2x1.5x2ft tank. the overflow was placed in the refugium & the outlet pipe was extended into the main tank almost to the bottom underwater. i have placed a ball valve(not glued) on the pipe end which i can either pour water down or suck the air out to start the siphon. it was the highest part of the whole system.

for the last 3days, i used a 1200l/hr pump & it's working fine... except bubbles which wouldn't go away for the past 3days. it was not too noisy & handled the waterflow not too well as the drainage holes on the surface skimmer are not sufficient.

funny thing is when i turned off the pump & waited for the overflow to drain the water to stop, and when i started the pump again, the siphon would start again(ball valve fully closed)!

in melvin's thread, someone did mentioned u have to make a hole on the end cap so should the pump stop & restart again, the siphon would not be broke & restart again.

when the pump's running again, i tried to open the ball valve a tiny bit & alot of bubbles appeared in the outlet pipe! they ceased by a little bit when i turned the ball valve fully shut again. then i tried opened fully the ball valve. the siphon juz broke off & the overflow failed.

okies... my questions:

* where did the bubbles appeared from? from the surface skimmer where the water flowed down too fast down the drainage holes & bubbles was created from the turbulence or from the place where the t junction is, in which the 2pipes where water flowed in & out meet the end pipe where u suck air to get the siphon started?

* will the bubbles go away by any means? or do i have to glue the ball valve to the endpipe? all joints was checked & sealed already.

* why does the siphon would resume even though my valve was fully closed? tot with the end pipe fully closed the siphon will not resume again?

* why does more bubbles appeared when i turned on the valve a little bit? could it be the siphon was actually ###### air from the end pipe? so when i opened the valve on the end pipe, i'm actually letting the siphon suck in the air more easily?

wished i can attatch a pix of my setup... but no cam... haiz... pls advice & enlighten me! thanks!

[rockfish]

hi bro,

after hearing how u set up the overflow pipe... i roughly have an idea wat goes wrong ..

first of all .. can u at least sketch in the pc and post it so that we noe how u set it up ..

then, when the pump is switch off, is the water level in the sump same as ur tank .. ?

[rockfish]

okay... i have modify one of my drawings .. is this how u set up ur tank and tube .. ?

[jc85]

Hi Bro, u inverted the "sump" and "main tank" liao.

[jonathan543]

haahaa...nope dats correct! i have altered the drawing... pls advice...

[rockfish]

hi johnathon,

if u set it up in this way, it should be correct.

when u turn off the pump and wait for the overflow to drain the water until the level.. did u waited for all the water in the surface skimmer tube to be all drain out .. i think.. if ur siphon is fully on(the valve closed) but the water in the tube is not fully drain .. it will still start .. when u on the pump..

bubbles when u open the valve .. , this is a common prob for overflow.. thats why ppls usually used it the reverse way .. so that the bubbles goes into the sump . .

and why did the siphone breaks after u open the valve fully again .. ?? i guess the process is a continuation from the time u off and on the pump rite .. maybe when u open the valve .. the siphon has drain the water level in the surface skimmer to be lower than the Tee joint already .. so if u open the valve fully again .. the air will be suck back into the pipe.. cosing the siphone to break ..

is it possible to place ur tank and sump the usual way .. ?? i have made almost 10 of these pipes already . and i have never encounter problems like urs . .

even bro jc85 is using one of my pipes ..

if possible.. try to get a fellow reefer that stay near to u to take a look at ur set up .. maybe can help u solve ur prob ..

worst case.. if after all these still have problems .. u can bring it over to my place .. we can try to solve the problems together ..

try to reset-up again ..

then let me noe if still cannot ..

[jonathan543]

pmed u rockfish... pls check ur inbox.

[rockfish]

hey jonathon,

taking a closer look, i realised why on full siphon ur pipe still can work like normal.

becos the water level in ur main tank .. balance with the water level in ur surface skimmer tube .. thats why when u off the pump .. the water level still maintain .. therefore, it still works ..

if thats the case, i think u better leave it close as it perform the same function ..

and as for why there is bubble .. when its fully close .. simple reason .. u did not start the siphon properly.. there is still air trap in the tube.. if u want . check ur joints again .. make sure u seal them properly .. including the ball valve.

hope u are happy with my reply.

sometimes when things are not used the way they are meant to be ... problems like these will turns up .. and i feel that u shouldn't get angry with me over this ..

just relax and enjoy ur reefing.

[jonathan543]

yoz rockfish, i AM relaxed & was trying to voice out all my unpleasantness in my best words i can put down in the earlier pm.

i had tested out ur overflow in a pail using the ###### method which u suggested. it failed as the outlet water was trickling out instead of gushing out. and i did make sure there's always water flowing into the holes in the skimmer. i restarted it countless times, took out to reseal the joints, and tested again, having the same results in the end. since i had tested the overflow in a pail, it should work the way it was made to, right?

it WAS oni after i figured out & added the long pipe to the outlet(which i took alot of trouble to find the correct size), the siphon worked well.

and now i set it up in my tank, the siphon restarted by itself with the ball valve closed, alot of bubbles dat wun go away even after a few days, & the drainage holes dat aren't sufficient to handle 2000l/hr as using a 1200l/hr pump, the water level had rose up to more than 3/4 of the holes' height.

i already have re sealed the joints... and i din hear any leaking sounds anywhere on all the joints as i believed should the joints be leaking & air was sucked in, i should hear a ###### sound.

and the water level inside the skimmer was higher than the water level in the main tank, but lower than the water level outside the skimmer after the pump had stopped for half an hour for all the draining to stop completely.

and i think because my outlet pipe was underwater in the main tank, the siphon was held intact by the pressure of the water, koz when the water was going down inside the skimmer after the pump was switched off, i observed the water had gone down below the inlet pipe for a split second & a gulping sound was heard. then the water came back up slowly & maintained below the waterlevel outside the skimmer. when i on the pump again, the water rose very fast in the sump till it was almost to the rim of the skimmer then the full power of the siphon came & brought the waterflow under control.

i had already emphasized alot dat i got upset koz u din test out the overflow 1st. i believed i would have saved alot of time & a little money spent for the overflow to at least work properly. cheers! *peace*

[rockfish]

hi jon,

okay .. point noted .. i'll never agree to making pipes that are told not glue .. becos i can't test them.. thanks for ur advice...

and the second thing .. ur siphon did break ... after u hear the glurping sound .. that is when ur siphon broke.. but wat arosed my curiousity is that .. how it restart itself .. ??