Are they too much?

[Achilles Tang]

Perhaps out of most of the local public eye, I have been fighting this battle alone (for most part) on behalf of SRC.

I am accused of sabotage, self-interests (commercial) and denying Singapore reefers a chance to hear a quality seminar by 'world-renowned' speakers aka my attackers.

I have also been backstabbed by a few disgruntled local reefers who vocalize support for the attackers. When I disputed them, I am accused of starting 'politics'.

I have been transparent in my explanations and have sought to clear the air and even tried to see if SRC could really work with people like them as a compromise.

Sadly, I cannot feel comfortable enough to work with people who cannot stop laying abuse and hurtful accusations and will not retract back their words even as they sought us to be their partners.

If you can spare the time and the pain to read through this ridiculous drama, I also appreciate if all of you can voice out how you interpret and feel about all this.

Remember, this is about YOU as much as its about my management of SRC.

If I have been a let-down by going against the common interests of Singapore reefers, please vocalise your thoughts.

If my pains to get Anthony Calfo to speak to SRC is considered sabotage by the other party just because my plans were made earlier and not done in tandem with theirs, please explain to me why so.

SRC is about the local community and our name has been dragged through the mud by MDP as you all have been implicated of living in fear and tyranny of the mods and myself who supposedly run SRC like running a prison camp.

I have not asked a favour of the local community before (except during the Save Nemo campaign, Aquarama promotional activities, Tsunami fund-raising) and would like you guys to speak your mind, truthfully, about how you view the following main points:

1. Are you guys in this Reef Club against your will and made to suffer under the unreasonable rules and bad treatment as accused of by MDP?

2. Are we all obligated to comply with MDP's demands in agreeing to support his seminar (planned later than ours) WITH him refusing to disclose his agenda, topic, credentials? And already KNOWING how he views us locals as people who are out to wreck his products and spoil his market and that he fully intends to 'stir the pot' in due time?

3. Do you feel that our Anthony Calfo seminar should be cancelled if it cannot be merged with the MDP seminar as what he is trying to force us to do?

4. Are all the accusations that MDP and company made about SRC any less truthful, accurate and undeniable?

I'm certainly not the most perfect man around but I think most of you guys know how much passion, stress and work I have put in to SRC and in the local reefing scene to be fairly accused of self-interest and bad intentions.

I hope not to be the only lone voice speaking out for SRC. This is not about politics, this is about speaking up for YOURSELVES. Let's hear the people speak.

Yours sincerely

Achilles Tang

[aCe^bOwleRz]

I'm new to this forum but I'm more than happy to learn and make friends from bros and sis here

This site has a cosy feeling to me

Have MDP send to you another email regarding the seminar?

Hope that everything will be resolved peacefully

And can't wait to meet you guys during Aquarama 2005

[AquaRa]

definitely no. this place offers me great opportunities to learn more about the topic. and there are always fellow reefers around who can contribute and suggest solution sto my problems.

i see it essential and necessary that moderators remain strict in maintaining the forum's rules and regulations as there are many minors amongst us. In order to prevent any quarrel from developing and preserving harmony within the community, i deem it imperative that moderators nip them in the bud. Till now, i feel that the moderators are doing a good job.

[kareen]

The important thing is : as long as you feel “问心无愧”.

[absolut_vodka]

I think the world is made up of all sorts of people and I'm sure quite a few with hidden agendas. What really goes on in their mind, only they will know. But my belief is always not to get involved. People can say what they want to whoever they want. At the end of the day, you face your own conscience and the Lord. We all have eyes to see (and minds to think). Why let a few individuals bother you?

When I first mull over the idea of a marine tank, I was looking around for information that I need and I'm glad I came across the SRC booth during the last Aquarama and picked up the leaflet on cycling the tank. Otherwise, I'll probably be like the many others, just pour in water, salt and fish! I've learnt a lot from SRC and I've also learnt to sieve out what's junk and what's treasure. I know there are lots of disputes and even 'cliques' around. I choose to sit on the fence and focus on what I'm here to do - learn and become a better and more successful reefer.

Disgruntled? Yeah, maybe... but only because some of you have such nice tanks!! I'm jealous and I ask myself, why I'm not one of them? But I endeavour to have a superb tank one day and everyday I'm reading and learning more!

As with every community (online or not), as long as there are human beings, there will be disagreement. Even husbands and wives, just 2 beings together can create much havoc when disagreement arises. Online communities are MUCH worse, no thanks to technology. Communication online has always been considered to be devoid of emotions. You can't see an individual's face or expression nor hear the tone or volume of the voice. As a result, much misunderstanding can happen. And nobody can have 100% people around them loving/liking them - that's a fact of life. So chill... do what you do best and leave the rest to the Lord.

[Clownfish]

1. Are you guys in this Reef Club against your will and made to suffer under the unreasonable rules and bad treatment as accused of by MDP?

Dun realli think we hav been badly treated at all

2. Are we all obligated to comply with MDP's demands in agreeing to support his seminar (planned later than ours) WITH him refusing to disclose his agenda, topic, credentials? And already KNOWING how he views us locals as people who are out to wreck his products and spoil his market and that he fully intends to 'stir the pot' in due time?

well, i shldnt hav brought his seminar invitaion over to SRC, indirectly creating so many problems... i apologise to everyone for the inconvenience

but "wu feng bu qi lang" maybe there is some misunderstanding somewhere... maybe he did emailed u but somehow or another AT din received the mail? he had mentioned b4 that it's gonna be an informal talkover initially, so he din get to plan his agenda n topic? or maybe someone is creating some "wind" behind the scenes? it's hard for us to noe... if say realli the situation is that bad, i realli wanna suggest a gd phone talkover... i notice text based conversations always lead to more misunderstandings (that's the loopholes of our technology).. i personally tink that collaboration is always the best solution out, if not compromisation... if the misunderstandings starts from a third party, someone, somewhere, i bet it's realli easy to pinpoint that crux of the prob in a true voice conversation lor....

(dun u find it wierd that MDP act noes bout anthony calfo's seminar, even b4 AT tell us he's contacting anthony and MDP noes that it's on the same day, time even b4 AT announces the seminar venue+time?)

therefore, i suggest resolvin n collaborate... no point trying to accomodate as a form of resolvin... (it's the same as y PM lee still go ahead with the taiwan visit... but let's not get confused with the LP issue )

if u r standing rite in front of a wall, u will see nothing, but if u step back a few steps, u find that u can act see more... same thing here... it would be gd if both parties can step back a bit to resolve the prob tog

3. Do you feel that our Anthony Calfo seminar should be cancelled if it cannot be merged with the MDP seminar as what he is trying to force us to do?

act, timing n date shld be convenient for our speaker... if he's onli available on 27may nite, then i dun find any wrong in this... but best is to avoid clashes or else the misunderstanding might deepen n continue...

if MDP wanna merge, let's resolve the root of the prob first lor... dun wan to hav a disagreement on the very nite...

[Achilles Tang]

True, I believe there are quite a few spies amongst our ranks with hidden agendas. Strangely, I told a few reefers/sponsors about the Anthony Calfo thing early this year. I guess it leaked out to the wrong ears.

[Reefaholic]

I think the world is made up of all sorts of people and I'm sure quite a few with hidden agendas. What really goes on in their mind, only they will know. But my belief is always not to get involved. People can say what they want to whoever they want. At the end of the day, you face your own conscience and the Lord. We all have eyes to see (and minds to think). Why let a few individuals bother you?

When I first mull over the idea of a marine tank, I was looking around for information that I need and I'm glad I came across the SRC booth during the last Aquarama and picked up the leaflet on cycling the tank. Otherwise, I'll probably be like the many others, just pour in water, salt and fish! I've learnt a lot from SRC and I've also learnt to sieve out what's junk and what's treasure. I know there are lots of disputes and even 'cliques' around. I choose to sit on the fence and focus on what I'm here to do - learn and become a better and more successful reefer.

Disgruntled? Yeah, maybe... but only because some of you have such nice tanks!! I'm jealous and I ask myself, why I'm not one of them? But I endeavour to have a superb tank one day and everyday I'm reading and learning more!

As with every community (online or not), as long as there are human beings, there will be disagreement. Even husbands and wives, just 2 beings together can create much havoc when disagreement arises. Online communities are MUCH worse, no thanks to technology. Communication online has always been considered to be devoid of emotions. You can't see an individual's face or expression nor hear the tone or volume of the voice. As a result, much misunderstanding can happen. And nobody can have 100% people around them loving/liking them - that's a fact of life. So chill... do what you do best and leave the rest to the Lord.

Well said, i must agreed all points.

[wil_lee76]

I am accused of sabotage, self-interests (commercial) and denying Singapore reefers a chance to hear a quality seminar by 'world-renowned' speakers aka my attackers.

I have also been backstabbed by a few disgruntled local reefers who vocalize support for the attackers. When I disputed them, I am accused of starting 'politics'.

I have been transparent in my explanations and have sought to clear the air and even tried to see if SRC could really work with people like them as a compromise.

Sadly, I cannot feel comfortable enough to work with people who cannot stop laying abuse and hurtful accusations and will not retract back their words even as they sought us to be their partners.

If you can spare the time and the pain to read through this ridiculous drama, I also appreciate if all of you can voice out how you interpret and feel about all this.

Remember, this is about YOU as much as its about my management of SRC.

If I have been a let-down by going against the common interests of Singapore reefers, please vocalise your thoughts.

If my pains to get Anthony Calfo to speak to SRC is considered sabotage by the other party just because my plans were made earlier and not done in tandem with theirs, please explain to me why so.

SRC is about the local community and our name has been dragged through the mud by MDP as you all have been implicated of living in fear and tyranny of the mods and myself who supposedly run SRC like running a prison camp.

I have not asked a favour of the local community before (except during the Save Nemo campaign, Aquarama promotional activities, Tsunami fund-raising) and would like you guys to speak your mind, truthfully, about how you view the following main points:

3. Do you feel that our Anthony Calfo seminar should be cancelled if it cannot be merged with the MDP seminar as what he is trying to force us to do?

4. Are all the accusations that MDP and company made about SRC any less truthful, accurate and undeniable?

I'm certainly not the most perfect man around but I think most of you guys know how much passion, stress and work I have put in to SRC and in the local reefing scene to be fairly accused of self-interest and bad intentions.

I hope not to be the only lone voice speaking out for SRC. This is not about politics, this is about speaking up for YOURSELVES. Let's hear the people speak.

Yours sincerely

Achilles Tang

AT, After going thru the whole case. I really admired your presistent and effort.

Regards of ques 1: NOPE! That's bullshit! Im very new....new to marine , new to forum...how i join SRC? thru website search...and realised that in here, informations, local happenings etc etc..can be found easily...no doubts, i have join reef central...but realised that local website is better than overseas...why? Im feeling very comfortable. we have the same frequency..we have our own culture...few friends asked me which website i checked my info and buy second hand stuffs...i immediatley told them SRC. Even some LFS (new) asked me how i know so much...i told them SRC....my bottomline is to become a sucessful reefers. YES! i do admit that sometimes, I do overdo my comments and styles in forums. BUT i know my limit!!

As for these issues, resloving is the key word. if i put myself in your shoes. I know how u feel...but AT, bo pian...fight for your rights? Fight for us? Fight for SRC? Who is suffering? Who can see your efforts? I have gone thru all the threads regs of misunderstanding...who stands up and speaks up for the rest?...it you and some mod...i!!! They think it your JOBs! i as a members sometimes, do symap all your time, effort in providing an environement for us...take these chance and my to YOU and all the MODs!

I agree with vodka...we all are humans begin....jelousy, greed, etc etc do exists in us....as we are not 100% perfect...

As for the event, it best to avoid the clash...to prevent more misunderstanding...really no choice, we got to stick on it...making amother friend is better that making an enemy....

Relzx...and ClAm Down....

[pangz]

Just as there are two sides to a page, there are always two sides to a story. Conflicts like these always stem from miscomunications and I agree that with all human relationships, there are personality clashes. Rather than rallying camps around unmeaningful clauses and letting the world snicker at our pettiness, perhaps we should all cool off.

I am thankful that there are pple like AT who put in the effort of organising events without self-interest. Let's just keep it clean and not let the ugly accusations mar the seminar.

No offence to anyone, but everyone has the right to stick around/ talk to and email pple they are comfortable with. No use being nice to someone who wants to stick a knife down your throat.

[Voltron2000]

I must say i agree with all the points mentioned here.

QUOTE (Achilles Tang @ Apr 7 2005, 03:39 AM)

" I am accused of sabotage, self-interests (commercial) and denying Singapore reefers a chance to hear a quality seminar by 'world-renowned' speakers aka my attackers. I have also been backstabbed by a few disgruntled local reefers who vocalize support for the attackers. When I disputed them, I am accused of starting 'politics'. "

These are their (the disgruntled few) opinions. What they fail to appreciate or chose to ignore is the amount of time, effort and $$$ you have invested in this forum (which you could choose to save for yourself or your beloved hobby). Unlike others who starts their own forums and let some mods to manage, you made it a passion for both yourself and local hobbyists alike to come to a common area for discussions and sharing.

An example was when SRC, was down sometime back. If not all, most of them felt that something was missing from their life during that period of time. I was definately one of them. With this, it only mean 1 thing; SRC objective has been met to be a platform for all to share. Now the most important thing is to maintain the standard if not go forward.

About the seminar, you were "bitchy" in getting your points across to the other side. Sorry about this statement BUT i really SALUTE you for this. 1 against dun know how many...... You made your points across but they or rather he did not seem to comprehen. What suprises me though was his objective of this seminar and in getting SRC involved or rather taking it personal when you, AT (rep of SRC) was not in favor without his agenda. The remark of having a seminar with a COMPETITOR, really irks me of reading any further. If his intentions were to really share and educate local reefers, then he should more than welcome more professionals in getting involved rather than labelling them "competitors".

QUOTE (Achilles Tang @ Apr 7 2005, 03:39 AM)

If I have been a let-down by going against the common interests of Singapore reefers, please vocalise your thoughts

I have yet to see another person who is as passionate as you are. There may be but i have not heard off. I have not seen you nor met you before but during my time in SRC and reading through all your postings already showed what sort of person you are or probably BE.

QUOTE (Achilles Tang @ Apr 7 2005, 03:39 AM)

3. Do you feel that our Anthony Calfo seminar should be cancelled if it cannot be merged with the MDP seminar as what he is trying to force us to do?

Like mentioned in other threads, why should we bother about what others has to say about SRC. If this seminar benefits the local reefers than we should go ahead. SRC has always operated and with the intentions on sharing and educating local reefers.

Honestly, AT, i think with this thread you are begining to break down a little. Hang in there, our MAN. We know you have done it and can still do better and not allowing such trivial matter to upset your focus and objectives. 1 thing for sure, if SRC is a nobody, why would anyone be upset in not getting SRC's "endorsement" ? You have our support (committed local reefers).

Cheers

[wil_lee76]

YES...u will have my support too! Hang in there!!!

[butteye]

Bro AT,

Guess that much in here will support, no sweat.

But that's the case of usual foreign entity wld invade a local market to prive the share of the pie with their so-call bussiness concept.

[Achilles Tang]

Actually, on hindsight, I'm always in constant danger of falling off into their trap of loosing my cool and making a fool of myself everytime these people start their nonsense.

Perhaps some will find me too argumentative or aggressive but it's just me.

I will fight for something that is important to me... esp my reputation and hard work for SRC.

The day you see me just sit down and let someone walk all over me is the day I completely 'bo chup' and die.

Till then, SRC will occupy my time and be in my priorities and as much as some people cannot face this fact: it's a privately owned forum but one with a very public service and one that is publicly populated & shared because you decided with your own choice to be here.

SRC is about YOU, a community.

For those who are offended at my style of confrontation, I apologize.

I just hope that when the time comes for the people of SRC to speak up against such ugly people, they will.

[Marineman]

Wow, it certainly took me a while to read the background!

They are pressuring AT to host a joint seminar with them so that they can benefit to promote their products more effectively since SRC has a big following. They certainly have vested interest (to promote their products). PERIOD.

Of course it is good to host a joint seminar so that reefers don't have to split, but then the topics and agenda is not clear and so are the speakers. It may also take a whole day, and what happens if Calfo is asked by a reefer about their products and he is not comfortable to give his endorsement (sure to happen), then how? We all know Anthony Calfo and we know he is here to give a talk to the hobbyist and he has no vested interest.

To hold the separate events on separate nights would be good for the reefing community, looks like true hobbyist will attend the Calfo seminar as we all know what it will be all about!

MPD said there is no freedom of speech, LFS refused to carry certain products etc etc, to me, is all nonsense. The LFS will carry the product as long as they can make a good profit, the higher the profit the harder they push for it. In this internet age, MPD is very naive to say that Sporeans are suppressed by the products available locally and deprived of good info....good lord, he think we still live on trees? I like to share one example here, the marine scene is very far behind in Malaysia compared to Spore, because there is a demand by reefers for quality products like skimmers, T5, cyclopeeze etc (very basic stuff in Spore) but not available until recently, the LFS has no choice but to bring them in as more and more reefers wants them. This is purely economics, supply and demand.

If SRC does not want to work with them, it is their prerogative. We hobbyist just got to decide which seminar to attend. It seems that the choice is starightforward to me..........I can't attend both ........as I am in KL Maybe I will show up and give a surprise, afterall I know Calfo too

[AquaRa]

True, I believe there are quite a few spies amongst our ranks with hidden agendas. Strangely, I told a few reefers/sponsors about the Anthony Calfo thing early this year. I guess it leaked out to the wrong ears.

woah! conspiracy....

[seafood]

The important thing is : as long as you feel “问心无愧”.

agreed...just look at e M'ship size and active participation n AT u will kno how ur m'gtment is been judge .... Been new but 101% comfortable in tis site....If u r as per "accuse", i dun think the M'ship size & participation will be tis large/active.

[livebait]

Whatever said is said,whatever done is done.

right or wrong,time will tell,

we can't shut people up but as long we stay true to what we believed,

the right will prevailed.

Happy reefing;remember it's just a hobby

[ozy]

Well as the saying goes (think it was from some American President):

"You can please some of the people all the time, all the people some of the times but you can never please all the people all the time."

[Alentino]

AT....

by taking the initiative to set up this online forum for information sharing and interaction among hobbyist you have already done us a great favour. Don't feel corncerned about having to please everybody, conform to their expectations nor bow down to their will.

Brood of vipers exist in every community, whether in the office or online. Don't ever let them feel like they have the power to bring you down merely through words typed on the keyboard to express their ill intentions.

I encourage you to continue doing what you love here as your passion, and to treat this online forum to what it really is... just a forum. other than useful information, trade and healthy interactions, let other lame postings mean nothing to you.

cheers,

Alan

[eques]

dun care wat they said just do wat we think are right. all hobbies are 'hao lian' in one way or the other because we only believe in wat we wan to believe . you have my thanks for the 'war' you fought with bravery and brains for us. But since all of us here are to learn about reefing and to improve our tank it is best that we dun lets our ego get in the way . dun care wat they said this way you can be less stress. if they got the intention to merge this seminar they will find ways to contact you thats for sure. But hope you control temper and relax a bit for if you face this type of problem again . Now a days there is lots of cases like halozzz being post in the open i dun wish to have such thing again, very pai sei for those foreign guys to look at us, As if we are some money hungry barbarians . for those guy that involve in this type of post pls dun claim that your so call pride or principle(not sure the spelling ) is at stake, because if you dun post who will know that you being con???? and for those who con people pls dun start any hobbies if you have no money, live the life you are 'fit' for and not over the limit.

[Achilles Tang]

Kind words, you all. And wise too.

Perhaps ignoring such idiots will be the best route to happiness. On the other hand, they should be made to look the idiot.

I will do my best to be unaffected (try!).

Thank you all for the support, will endeavour to serve the marine community with the help of the mods as best as we can!

And yes, we do represent the best or the worst of our local community to foreign eyes, every community has their bad apples and trolls. At least we can take comfort in that we have a very small community and everyone can suss out the truth in due time.

I think what they say is true, if the majority is satisfied, why worry over a few disgruntled people who do nothing but bitch?

Let those who value a happy environment stay with like-minded people. Those who can't fit in and can find birds of the same feather elsewhere in a new home.

I know now what the mods and I must do. Chainmail gloves are in order.

[eques]

no need to be so strict la . too strict i will be afraid one ok! ha ha .

[cjh]

yo AT keep it up... we will support u!!!!

just ignore those ignorance ppl.... micheal just wan u to "beg" him to organize the seminar... hes trying to play mind game only la....

[Alentino]

Rock on AT