Bubbles coming out from sandbed

[Felix Wong]

Hi, recently, there's a noticeable increase in air/oxygen? bubbles released from the sandbed. Anybody knows what is causing this?

Also, I recently bought a Red-banded Grubfish (very much like a Goby). Very healthy, but died 3 days later. Not sure if it has been attacked by the 4-striped damsel. Anyway, box up the damsel since it is attacking other fishes.

[williammuk]

Hi, recently, there's a noticeable increase in air/oxygen? bubbles released from the sandbed. Anybody knows what is causing this?

If the bubbles emerged from inside the sandbed, then it is likely to be nitrogen bubbles.

It's a good sign. It means that your sandbed is converting nitrate to nitrogen.

[lightningstrike]

how long has ur sandbed been in ur tank? how deep is ur sandbed? do u observe the bubbles on the front panel of the glass? do u notice algae in the sandbed or on the glass where u see the bubbles?

[Felix Wong]

The bubbles seem to be originating from both inside and near the surface of the sandbed, as can be seen from the front panel of the glass.

I started this tank since late Dec, so the sandbed has been in my tank, say for up to 3 months. There is some localised brown algae on the surface of the sandbed but it has been reduced by 2 big voracious snails which I've placed in the tank few weeks ago.

So could it be both oxygen (from photosynthesis by algae) & nitrogen (by denitrification)?

[madmac]

Bill this is not a criticism of you or anyone on this board... but chemical denitrification doesn't take place on the surface of SBs(or even underneath)... it takes place in anaerobic regions... if you goggle nitrification and hit the first find, there's a good explanation there.

Felix, imho, they are O2 bubbles... do you see it bubbling in the night? if not... then its probably photosynthetic, release during the day, i.e. you hv plenty of plant matter.

Its certainly not life or death... otherwise the J. League will be at your door step. : )

[hotlemond]

much has been discussed on this topic recently. Perhaps some fellow reefers would like to direct us to articles or share further details on the confused issue between O2 bubbles by algae and chemical denitrification; anaerobic.

[lightningstrike]

The bubbles seem to be originating from both inside and near the surface of the sandbed, as can be seen from the front panel of the glass.

I started this tank since late Dec, so the sandbed has been in my tank, say for up to 3 months. There is some localised brown algae on the surface of the sandbed but it has been reduced by 2 big voracious snails which I've placed in the tank few weeks ago.

So could it be both oxygen (from photosynthesis by algae) & nitrogen (by denitrification)?

from what u hv described, it is more likely due to be O2 given off rather than denitrification taking place.

[Felix Wong]

Thanks Guys.

I also think it's oxygen as it tends to occur in the evening after almotst 8 hours of light exposure, which explains the accumulation of oxygen after prolonged photosynthesis.

Rgds.

Felix

[blueheaven]

In a nutshell, if you have algae growing on the surface of the sand, its most likely to be oxygen bubbles. How deep is your sandbed anyway?

[AquaRa]

they are diatoms...diatoms...invading your tank...

[blueheaven]

they are diatoms...diatoms...invading your tank...

What makes you say that?

[AquaRa]

cos i'm assuming........cos... how am i supposed to ans tat qns? cos i interpret his words?

[williammuk]

Bill this is not a criticism of you or anyone on this board... but chemical denitrification doesn't take place on the surface of SBs(or even underneath)... it takes place in anaerobic regions... if you goggle nitrification and hit the first find, there's a good explanation there.

Hi madmac, no worries ...

Just that, all along I am under the impression that anaerobic action takes place within

the sandbed. And that the (nitrogen) bubbles that formed within a (matured) sandbed

are the result of it.

Here's a photo of my sandbed. What bubbles are those? Thanks.

[Felix Wong]

Hi William,

Thanks for posting the photo of your sandbed and that's exactly how mine looks like with bubbles all within the sandbed and emerging when they are big enough

BTW, my sandbed is about 3 - 4 cm thick.

[madmac]

They could be O2, CO2, N.... but imho, its O2, if you see them in the day... they start to clear away in the nite as reverse photo-synthesis takes hold... i.e. the algae (which you cant see starts to take in o2 and give out co2...n another reason why the pH drops in the night).

Thats a beautiful SB you have there... real LIVE SB... No. 3 sand? Before long, you'll start see animals there living off the algae and growing fat. : )

[williammuk]

They could be O2, CO2, N.... but imho, its O2, if you see them in the day... they start to clear away in the nite as reverse photo-synthesis takes hold... i.e. the algae (which you cant see starts to take in o2 and give out co2...n another reason why the pH drops in the night).

Thats a beautiful SB you have there... real LIVE SB... No. 3 sand? Before long, you'll start see animals there living off the algae and growing fat. : )

Thanks for your reply.

I'll have to take a closer look at my sandbed before lights-on and see if the bubbles

are still there.

It's not #3 sand -- it's a binary sandbed ... 0s and 1s ...

[mUAr_cHEe]

Thanks for your reply.

I'll have to take a closer look at my sandbed before lights-on and see if the bubbles

are still there.

It's not #3 sand -- it's a binary sandbed ... 0s and 1s ...

which can only mean one thing....

POWER MACRO!!!!!

D70? ehz???

[williammuk]

which can only mean one thing....

POWER MACRO!!!!!

D70? ehz???

hee ... sorry to disappoint you bro.

It's only a Lumix FX7.

[loster]

Hi madmac, no worries ...

Just that, all along I am under the impression that anaerobic action takes place within

the sandbed. And that the (nitrogen) bubbles that formed within a (matured) sandbed

are the result of it.

Here's a photo of my sandbed. What bubbles are those? Thanks.

i have bubbles on my SB too. same type of bubble that in the william's pix. i started my tank in mid nov 2004. and the bubbles appeared since jan 2005. it stared from the front view of my tank and it spreads toward the mid of my tank cos i can see it at the side view. at first i don't know what it was and i stired the SB a liittle to clear some bubbles. however, the bubbles still appeared on the next day. the bubbles appear even when my lights are off. it could be nitrogen i guess.

[wil_lee76]

i do experience these too..but mine contains of dark greeny stuffs inside, sometimes, can see small worms digging.....will post a pics...in fact, im curious to know too!

[LaW]

im betting on nitrogen gas.

think how a low flow denitrator works. which the information can be found on

about denitrator

and how a Live Sand and Jaubert Reef systems works

compare a deep sandbed with lack of oxygen(low flow rate area) with anaerobic bacteria at the bottom

and a denitrator.

they are interrelated by means of low-oxygen.

here another website to support my bet on nitrogen gas.

http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

it stated:

"These nutrients act as food for the bacteria. In a very real sense, the biological filter depends upon bacterial growth. The breakdown of nitrogen compounds to nitrogen gas is done by bacteria growing in the areas of lowered oxygen concentration in the deeper parts of the sediments. At normal reef temperatures, around 82 deg F, some bacterial species will double their population in less than a half hour if they have the appropriate nutrients. This rapid bacterial growth rate causes the release of nitrogen gas which becomes visible as bubbles in the sediments."

the first 3 pictures show what Williammuk shows previously.

regards,

LaW

[AquaRa]

they are diatoms... there are threads on this kind of problem. it's due to high amount of phosphate and silicate and possibly nitrate in your water. sorry but phosphate n nitrate r extremely soluble in water. its simple science, pri sch science. the diatoms photosynthsise when the mh turns on, releasing o2 into the water. o2 aint soluble in water....

[LaW]

they are diatoms... there are threads on this kind of problem. it's due to high amount of phosphate and silicate and possibly nitrate in your water. sorry but phosphate n nitrate r extremely soluble in water. its simple science, pri sch science. the diatoms photosynthsise when the mh turns on, releasing o2 into the water. o2 aint soluble in water....

i know what u are tring to say.

but oxygen is soluble in water.

but there is a limit to how much oxygen water can hold before it is saturated. This amount, called the oxygen solubility or saturation value, is not fixed, but depends upon oxygen pressure in the air, water temperature, and dissolved salts present.

[AquaRa]

it is not very soluble, so it's listed as insoluble.

[madmac]

compare a deep sandbed with lack of oxygen(low flow rate area) with anaerobic bacteria at the bottom

and a denitrator.

they are interrelated by means of low-oxygen.

Yes only on the lack of O2, but the bacteria involve in nitrification vs denitrification are totally a different type(they don't 'co-habit' together). One converts NO2 to NO3 which the other converts NO3 to NO2(first stage) then to NO to N2O to N2(the last three are gasses which will be release).

denitrification won't/can't occur on SBs... you need entire dedicated systems(denitrator, read as canisters filters) for it to happen...as you are culturing a different type of bacterial in an anaerobic environment. You cannot have fast flows in those systems, the slow flow is to choke out the O2... remember these bacteria don't require light to live. If it were to take place in your tank... you LS will start to float first... besides its not an efficient process... you'll need a huge denitrator (far out-of-porportion) to clear off your tanks nitrates... which is the other reason why ppl employ more efficient methods of "de-nitrification(read as the removal of nitrates) like a macro algae refugium, DSBs, skimmers, water change, reduce feeding, etc...

I wouldn't read too much into Dr. Ron's publications... a lot of these were written 3 to 4 years ago and many who have tried his DSB methods are NOW saying... it doesn't work.. it works well initially... but its a ticking time-bomb, with no time schedule.