Bare bottom tanks

[madmac]

Hi bros & sis,

I thinking of starting this thread to track the progress of bare-bottom tanks, its pros and cons and others things related to BB reef-keeping, BBRK

I've been following BB for about 2 months but still don't know enough to explain fully its benefits. Perhaps there maybe some of you who have BB tanks that would like to share your views on it.

For a start, over the weekend past, I went thru a conversion from a sandbed of 3.5" to BB... it is looking ok and but just 2 days only. Hoping to hear you views on BBRK.

Thks and Best to all.

[SST Tang]

i currently having a bare bottom 3x2x2.5 tank

so far so good, (live stock are ok) for 6 month

not an expert to review or tell how good it is.

or maybe is too early to tell

in term of visual it may not look nice

but as for long term i thing is better.

will setting another tank, still cannot decide whether to stay at bare bottom

thank you for starting this thread, hopefully the expert can share their view or experiences.

Saw the bare bottom display tank at T95, according to them, they claim is a better choice.

Regards

[zorden]

you should ask Maxima as he the experting keeping a bare tank..

[madmac]

Thats' great, SST Tang.

Not wanting to start a debate with other RK methodologies... these are what proponents say BBRK can achieve.. and before that a definition of terms :

Eutrophic : describes a system of water where there is high productivity and biomass and is rich in dissolve nutrients... meaning some softies and mushrooms can survive in such systems and some fishes.

Mesotrophic : describes a moderate system with enough nutrients and bio- productivity, softies, LPS keepers and some SPS and fishes

Oligotrophic : is one where there is low bio- productivity, short on plant nutrients, good water clarity throughout its depth... meaning almost anything can be kept

Ref: http://www.pc.gc.ca/progs/amnc-nmca/plan/gloss/eutro_e.asp

BBRK says waters can be maintain in the Meso and Oligo trophic states quite easily, without much hassle.

[madmac]

you should ask Maxima as he the experting keeping a bare tank..

"bare tank" ...

Maxima, show your tank pls...

In short, among the other these important things to keep in mind when going BB :

Start by having a good set LRs... can be achieve by 'rock-cooking'.

Good water flow, very strong water flow.

Good skimmer tuned to wet skimming

Routine siphoning out the detritus

Photo period can be reduced as water clarity goes up a few notches.

Usual monitoring of water parameters and the usual husbandry skills required for the type of LS you keep.

[meatloaf]

hi, madmac

Thanks for starting this thread. now BB have a place for discussion.

i had setup a 3x2x2 BB tank on 5 days ago. For the bottom, I using starboard (or also known as chopping board) got them from toyogo at Toa Payoh. Pretty cheap. For my 3x2x2, i needed 5 pieces and use sillicon to hold them to the bottom.

Will post some pics later.

cheers

[SST Tang]

"bare tank" ...

Maxima, show your tank pls...

In short, among the other these important things to keep in mind when going BB :

Start by having a good set LRs... can be achieve by 'rock-cooking'.

Good water flow, very strong water flow.

Good skimmer tuned to wet skimming

Routine siphoning out the detritus

Photo period can be reduced as water clarity goes up a few notches.

Usual monitoring of water parameters and the usual husbandry skills required for the type of LS you keep.

my tank is full of live rock, cover most of the bottom

i think more than 100kg

according to one of reefer that went to view at my tank,

he saying that for bare bottom you need a lot of live rock

basically there call it the "berlim" spelling? system.

initailly setup was using two return 1260 and 1262 (pump outsump)

but have got a Tunze 6060 last month, so currently running with only 1262.

as for skimmer, using a AquaCare ACF1000

no refugim in the sump,

first compartment with coral chip

second compartment is for skimmer

third is for the return.

pic is two month ago, full of live rock stack up

without using any structure.

[SST Tang]

side view of the tank

[neokn]

From the webby, I notice that HKers likes to use BB for RK tanks. Maybe if there is a HKer in here, he can provide some info.

[madmac]

SST Tang: Thats a great looking tank, any recent pics? There lots of live rocks. The 'berlin' method is a slightly different from tis as BBRK relies on water flow, good wet skimming, siphoning to keep nutrients low. The idea is to keep out the gunk before it starts to decompose, thereby reducing Phosphorus and nutrient buildup. The rest is quite similar. Only for your tank, the bottom looks tight for siphoning.

I'm not sure about the coral chips, I think the do add some mechanical and bio filtration for your tank, jus tt they require regular maintenance, like once a month to keep them in top form. I think you can do away with them, in so far as bio-filtration is concern, as you hv enough rocks. But its nonetheless a great look tank. Thumbs-up

[Reefbum]

Tried BB a few months back.Problems encountered were a lot of uneaten food and fish waste accumulate under the rocks.Didn't use siphon coz afraid might suck fish or inverts up also).Also cannot buy fish or invert that need substrate to live(usually more interesting to watch).

IMO, is ok system but looks unnatural.

[madmac]

Reefbum unnatural, believe me, these corals are not artificial, they are alive... there's nothing unnatural about looking into a 3' reef tank and saying that it doesn't look any part of this vast and beautiful ocean.... in eyes of the beholder, lies its beauty.

[SST Tang]

lastest pic as of just now

at home becos, electrical supply shut down for maintenance.

[SST Tang]

overall view,

not only bare bottom but

open concert too.

[SST Tang]

sump tank front view

[SST Tang]

sump tank side view

AquaCare skimmer

recent product reviewed by Bro Roidan

can see two return pump out sump

see also those white tape on the pipe joint

not becos of water leak, but i think is air leak

cos initial setup, there is alot of micro bubbles

advised by Henry from ML to seal all the joint

[SST Tang]

view at LH corner

do not have a good digi cam

not good is photo taking

[SST Tang]

some collection,

under 10K, 150MH

[SST Tang]

growing big, but color not doing well

need to boost back the colour, but HOW AH???

[madmac]

Nice. Very nice!

The tank still looks very clean... after two months... can you share how you clean/maintain the tank... the glass walls, and do you have a water change schedule? How is the control of algae... I still have them as I didn't cook the rocks and its too early to say if they will go away... yours looks very minimal, like almost no algae.

It looks like your LPS can certainly benefit from more nutrients (i.e. feeding) maybe the tank is quite nutrient poor as BB are suppose to be like that...

[patrick123]

For Bare bottom, how to keep the nitrate level down? Is it that only rely on skimmer to remove the DOC? In that case, this only works for people who have very powerful skimmer right?

[SST Tang]

Nice. Very nice!

The tank still looks very clean... after two months... can you share how you clean/maintain the tank... the glass walls, and do you have a water change schedule? How is the control of algae... I still have them as I didn't cook the rocks and its too early to say if they will go away... yours looks very minimal, like almost no algae.

It looks like your LPS can certainly benefit from more nutrients (i.e. feeding) maybe the tank is quite nutrient poor as BB are suppose to be like that...

i clean the glass almost every alternate day

my magnet cleaner can access on all surface, even the back.

every fortnight will do water change, some time once a month

cos I stay at Pasir Ris, use to buy NSW,

but now stop buying, using RO-DI water salt mix.

MH on for only 6 hour a day, the most is 8 hour.

whenever I change water, will change also the cotton wool

[SST Tang]

For Bare bottom, how to keep the nitrate level down? Is it that only rely on skimmer to remove the DOC? In that case, this only works for people who have very powerful skimmer right?

I think you are rite,

thank to my AquaCare skimmer,

but I have never get my nitrate zero reading before.

also control on the feeding,

only feed once in the morning on br*** shrimp or mysis shrimp

and in the evening two or three spoon of cyclop-eeze

[madmac]

For Bare bottom, how to keep the nitrate level down?  Is it that only rely on skimmer to remove the DOC?  In that case, this only works for people who have very powerful skimmer right?

Ok, I'm gonna try to take this one... and show BB tanks works to reduce Nitrate and nutrients in particular(this is key). I know its been explain quite a couple of times before but there are plenty who STILL don't quite understand the process... blaming along the way all kinds of equipment, fish food, etc for the rise of their nitrates.

so here's goes:

Assuming the diagram below shows a live rock, uneaten "food particles" settle on it, (it starts to decompose and releases toxic {harmful} ammonia.

----ooooooooo---

============

==__________==

==__________==

==__________==

==__________==

==__________==

============

(When a tank is cycled) .... What first happens is the some surface bacteria(needs oxygen) 'eats' the ammonia and produces nitrite as a byproduct {less harmful than ammonia}. The conversion process is ever continuing and the byproduct, nitrite is then is passed down INTO the live rock to another bacteria (that doesn't require oxygen-remember the LR is porous).

This 2nd bacteria 'eats' the nitrite and produces nitrate{even less harmful than nitrite). So because and as long as you have any decomposing matter.... you will have the "nitrification" process... it doesn't never stop...any byproduct that can decompose, including fish poo, will continue the nitrification process....

if you follow up to this stage, raise your hands... I'll continue(got to go...) to further explain how nutrient gets buildup and how to BB tanks avoid it... stay tuned.

[madmac]

Some terms before we continue:

In biology :

productivity : couple A is said to be very productive if they have 7 children

efficiency: couple B is said to be more efficient than couple A, if they can produce 7 children with lesser resources than couple A

nutrients : a person will grow to his/her full potential on a nutritious diet. Most nutritious food sources are often said to have high proportions of Phosphorus byproducts of Nitrogen in them.

================

There are two important characteristic of these bacteria:

• They are able to store food for a long time

- Rock cooking has demonstrated that without light, all forms of light-requiring life forms dies, but the bacteria that lives within thrives, even for months on end, after the food of the dead algae is gone, they still live... and will produced more baby bacteria, if there is...

• more space, - they are always looking for it

- Human civilization has always wanted to colonize when they can and these has often led to wars btw nations/tribesmen with the more 'efficient' one winning.

One of the two bacteria there is more efficient than the other... can anyone guess which one?

---ooooooooo--- <----------decomposing food

============

==__________==

==______<--_== --------- anaerobic bacteria (does not require O2)

==__________==

==__________==

==__________==

============ <------- aerobic bacteria (requires 02)