Need Help on Employment Issues for Expecting Women

[Gouldian]

Dear bros & sis,

As some of you might have know, my wife works in a local office furniture company as a sales executive and is expecting to deliver our first baby this coming June.

As she is planning to go for her maternity, she has began by discussing with her boss of the proper way of temporary handing over her clients a trusted colleague.

However, she was told by her boss that he will decides who he wanted to hand over her clients to and that she have no say of it.

Also, he told her that during her 2 months maternity, 100% of her commission will be awarded to the colleague assigned by him.

The final shock was that she may not take back the clients after her 2 months maternity if he feels that the colleagues that have taken over her client does not want to release them back to her.

During the discussion, my wife have highlighted to him that this is not the current practice as most of their competitors are doing otherwise and the reponse she got from him is, "Then you join that company loh".

I am saddened by his remark as my wife has worked in this company for about 7 years and all this while she has meet all performance indicators he have given.

She is also one of the top producing sales executives and last year, 2004 her boss has even commited to reward me with an Rolex watch (But till now have not received yet).

Most of her clients are gotten through hard works by cold calling and following up for the many years she has known them, how can her boss take it away from her just because she is going for maternity? Is maternity so wrong that she has to be punished by taking away all her clients?

Thus, bros & sis, hope you guys could point me to futher information so that we could use it to further discuss with her boss.

TIA

[roidan]

as i have told you privately.....

obviously the boss ain't siding your wife or treasuring her as much as we think he should.

Ask your wife to explain the situation to some of her clients who have a basis of friendship with her......let them pressure the boss to return the clients to your wife instead when she returns.

"Give us Gouldian's wife or we take supplies from another company" simple as that.....

to please the clients or to please the subordinate who has taken over your wife's clients.... i am sure her boss will be able to pick a choice ......quite easily....

of coz this will be acting on the end result, other bros may be able to offer suggestions to coerce/force her boss to confirm your wife's post-maternity portfolio before she hands over.

[Marineman]

However, she was told by her boss that he will decides who he wanted to hand over her clients to and that she have no say of it.

If that is the case, the boss has the final say and your wife cannot do anything about it.

Also, he told her that during her 2 months maternity, 100% of her commission will be awarded to the colleague assigned by him.

This depends on the company's policy and how they handles the commission scheme, for example if you wife is already negotiatiing a new contract and her colleague finalise it, then she should be getting some share since she is the one who started off the contract, but again this depends on the company's current practice which your wife need to find out.

The final shock was that she may not take back the clients after her 2 months maternity if he feels that the colleagues that have taken over her client does not want to release them back to her.

Again this is the prerogative of the boss, unless she can proof she is discriminated, then she has a case, if so she has to be prepared to leave the company and go for the damages.

During the discussion, my wife have highlighted to him that this is not the current practice as most of their competitors are doing otherwise and the reponse she got from him is, "Then you join that company loh".

Looks like the boss does not like your wife, is the boss the owner? If not better talk to someone at a higher level. So what is their practice? Any precedent set?

I am saddened by his remark as my wife has worked in this company for about 7 years and all this while she has meet all performance indicators he have given.

Sorry to say, maybe she has become too expensive for the company as they can replace her with someone with lesser experience for a lower pay. Take an example of a 50 year old dirver who has worked for 20 years, he may be getting a basic pay of $3000 before OT etc. where a new driver in his 20s can also do the job with 50% of his pay. It's the smae job but different costs to the company. Those in Human Resources will get a better picture, they put a "VALUE" to the job and not how long you have work there! This may not apply to your wife's case.

She is also one of the top producing sales executives and last year, 2004 her boss has even commited to reward me with an Rolex watch (But till now have not received yet).

An indication of bad signs.

Most of her clients are gotten through hard works by cold calling and following up for the many years she has known them, how can her boss take it away from her just because she is going for maternity? Is maternity so wrong that she has to be punished by taking away all her clients?

Well, it's really up to the boss, fair or not.

In conclusion, it's your wife's call, does she really enjoy working there? If not pack up and find another job. Is her boss the owner? If he is try talking to him nicely and find out more about the company's practice, if she feels that she is being discriminated and has no future in this company, then it is time to leave. If he is not the owner, then talk to the owner or someone more senior to explain her situation and find out about the company's practice relating to staff's maternity leave.

[Clownfish]

obviously, the boss is tryin to psycho ur wife to quit the job instead of claimin a maternity leave....

IMO, claim the maternity leave... keep those gd clients to hersrlf then when it's abt time to return work, use the leave to find a betta job then say gd bye to the unreasonable boss let the boss pay her for nothin

[hbpencil]

Hi Gouldian,

It's sad to hear all this .....

However, I do agree with marineman. What I suspected here could be the company is trying to get rid of our wife ..... pardon me for being so direct .... but they cannot do it now especially your wife is going for maternity leave soon.

It's quite difficult to say that the company is discriminating your wife going for maternity leave. A lot of points here voice down to the company practice and policy. The boss actually have the rights to do what you have mentioned here.

Call me so that we can discuss more .... PM me if you have lost my phone numbers ...

[flubberina13]

sigh...i empathise w you...bro.

however, I do agree...her company's policies pertaining to maternity benefits have to be looked into to find out if it has been trying to discriminate against her...

Last resort, try MOM? go to their website and check out the benefits for maternity and try to see how her company weigh them?

All the best...will be fighting w her in spirit.

[shoelevy]

hi gouldian, disregarding our past encounters

i also want to point out that my mum is facing a similar problem and hope that by doing so i can offer some help

my mum has worked with a government ministry (don't wanna say which one to protect her privacy) for the past 20yrs and like your wife, she too has met company requirements if not better.

but in recent yrs, the fact that more young graduates are coming out into the work force coupled with the fact that they're young and with more zest while my mum was older, the company offered her a chance to resign...my mum found it troubling even though she's way short of retirement age, it signalled that the company feels that she should leave and that her loyalty to the company isn't worthy

i believe she too feels the same way as your wife regarding loyalty to company (that it doesn't really pay to be loyal to your company)

the company ministry encourages a strong family and social background in singapore, but yet, when my mum needs to take leave to take care of my brother when he is sick, the boss starts picking on her

my point is that these unfair and saddening things do happen because the company and boss definitely put their interests before the workers.

but what you and your wife must do is to be strong and examine the options carefully

personnaly, i feel that the company isn't worth staying in because if now, you do not take actions, its very unfair to you and your wife.

but if you do take actions , in the future, your wife will have problems moving up in position and working with her boss

i hope you understand my point and hope that my views here can help you

all the best

[diabolus]

gouldian,

Its seems that its more like a lose-lose situation for your wife.

Roidan's method of pressuring her boss with her clients is good, but should be only used as a last resort. I think that there is practically no way to coerce her boss to return to her the clients who have been with her for so long without jeopardising her job.

IMO, its better to get her clients to stop ordering during the period of her maternity leave if possible, or order the least possible. This way, her boss will realised that the colleague who takes over her accounts cannot handle the clients or is unable to produce the same results your wife constantly produce. This way, he will gladly return your wife's accounts back to her when she returns, and also value her more.

As to the commission part, i think its fair that any new sales closed by your wife's colleague should rightfully go to him/her, for those that your wife is following up, this can be arrange between the colleague and her to split the commission.

As for the Rolex, its no point having to ask for it when her boss simply doesn;t keep his words.

As there are rules and regulations that employers have to follow. At least you can be assured that her employer cannot dismissed her now without a very valid reason now or during her maternity leave.

but still, i have this feeling that her company does not treasure her contributions. So maybe its time for her to do a reality check during her maternity period.

just my 1 cents worth anyway.

[Creetin]

i think nowadays companies seem more keen to make more profits rather than cultivating loyalty to the company.... sad...

So thats why i feel we must squeeze all we can from our companies while we can. Cos when the time comes to boot us out, they wont pity us one....

[limbssg]

If ur wife leaves the company, it will be as good as losing her clients (commissions) and hardwork that she put in for so many years. And it is not going to be easy to start fresh in a new company especially when many employers don't give a damn even if u have high qualifications or work experience. [if she has lobang, that is the best!]

But if she chooses to stay, may need to have a serious talk again with her boss after the maternity leave about getting back her clients. For her case, if the potential sales commission is a rather large part (or more than) of the income, the more she must fight it back. Meanwhile, gather some proof (invoice, emails) that she has always been handling the same clients for many years. You will never know whether the info will be handy. I doubt Unions or MOM will assist you in this, as in the transfer of clients among colleagues in a company.

Good luck!

[Melvyn Tan]

There is no loyalty to begin with especially in Singapore with regards to working (life).

Whether you are in the upper management, middle or lower.

Nowadays it is more like providing a professional service or you (acting as a company) providing a product/service to another (a bigger company) and when you cannot deliver because of some reasons, next company will do it.

Its sad but true.

So its very similar to lfs, this one too expensive as the other one (lfs) selling cheaper (spoil kang tao) as a result everyone drop price (in order to survive) no wonder the stuffs in Singapore not as good as elsewhere. This may appear good for consumers, but only for a short while, as the hobby, business etc will cannibalise itself. So cheap doesn't mean its good.... realibility in that product and the company carrying that product and honouring its services are important, so is an employee working in the company (mirror image).

Gouldian, which furniture company is that if you don't mind telling me?

[Copperband]

aiya.....MOM wont lift a finger to help unless u are in a union and all members of the union agree that the company is being unfair....... me working temporary full time in a company..... my situation is this

i have been slaving in this company for 3+ months....... the supervisor say i very good even promised me a bonus....i was happy........ but one month passed no bonus....then i heard all the full timer having their bonus already.... i haven got mine.... i kept quiet.... then i learnt that my junior(full timer)got the bonus he only worked for 1 month plus .. i thought him everything he knows....he got the bonus i dont...... my story shows how companies can be damn unfair to us.......another incident... i assigned to do heavy task while the newbie full timer only need to type on the computer.. eventhough he is much more a junior ,, he was given a lighter job.. companies always treat us unfairly..... in the end i just quit...... leaving my workplace in a mess as nobody is there to teach the newbies and they do things anyhow....

[nicky30092002]

IMO, she should proceed wif her M.leave .. before she does drop a note to all her exist client .. tellin them she will be back after her m.leave & respect their decision whether to request her back on coordinating when she is back. And then off to motherhood.

the rest, dun think abt it .. dun think there is any regulation/rules that the boss need put her back on exist clientlist .. furthermore after ur newborn comes .. u may hv other aspect of life to look into .. why brood over something tats not confirm ..

she is good? she be back on track fast .. dun worry ..

BTW congras to U both too !!!

[Gouldian]

Dear Bro and Sis,

Thank you all for the kind advices.

Honestly, I dun see that the boss is trying to rid my wife due to the following reasons:

1) After the employment of my wife, the company started its climb, the sales manager that employed my wife is now the GM of the company with 30% share.

2) The company used to be located right next to Sealife managed to increase their sales that they rented the unit directly opposite Sealife and now have since move out to a bigger office in Serangoon North.

3) When he knew that my wife and just pass her driving, they immediately offered a spare company's vechicle for her to use.

My wife have been in the office system furniture trade for many years liao and is known to be very loyal to her company.

I myself, am a Sales Manager and although not in the same trade, I have always offered her advices in order for her to perform the best and meet all performance indicators given by the company.

The way I read of the situation is that GM is unaware that what he is doing is unfair, he might have conceive after short discussion with the new Sales Manager that my wife does not report to due to her seniority.

And I believe the new Sales Manager is the one that is trying to remove my wife due to the fact that my wife is the only one that does not need to report directly to him. As such, this is a good opportunity for him to remove her using the knife of the GM!

As such, I hope the good bro & sis here can maybe advice us on how to handle base on this situation.

BTW, the new Sales Manager was initially employed as a Marketing Manager but due to the fact that he is unable to meet the challenges of his post he is demoted to a Sales Manager.

[DeepBlue]

I cant give good advice on this.....sorry...but i think nicky has a good suggestion....

Personally.....calm your wife and not let her be too overly concern and upset about the issue....a happy and stress-free mommy is very impt to the baby.

I am really concerned about her and the baby...... keep it optimistic and go on her maternity.....bad timing to worry about this.

[Gouldian]

That's why I am quitely helping her to write to AWARE and NTUC but have not gotten any reply so far yet.

And to think that the GM himself is also expecting his first baby around the same date as mine!

He can think for his wife who is also working in the same company but cannot spare a thought for my wife!

Sigh.... "Tong Ren Bu Tong Ming".

[DeepBlue]

you are a good husband hope it turns out better....anyway...next one two month will be exciting and after that....what work...????

[Gouldian]

Thank you Deepblue,

I am now collecting whether ammunition I can from you guys so that I can coax the GM to reverse his decision.

Wish me luck!

So bro & sis, please feel free to post your ideas how I could turn the situation around.

Thanks all in advance.

[gothia]

Hi Gouldian,

Sad to hear that your wife is getting this type of treatment from her boss. I think her boss cares only about money...

Sorry to tell you but this is the cruel hard facts...

Once there was this person who told me, "Whatever you'd done for the company, does not mean that it'll be appreciated by the boss(es)." Cos' they think they had paid for the employee's effort and thats what the company deserve.

There was one incident, when I was scolded by my ex-boss for no apparent reason and I argued back to demand for a reason for reprimanding me...He just said," Well...I pay your salary therefore you ought to be scolded by me.." (At that point time , in my mind, I was %$@!*)

I heard alot of woman in different industries got sacked before they go for maternity leave..Reason is that they don't want to pay 2 months salary to someone who is not working during that 2 months...Nowadays there is no such thing as work 10 years = 1 month salary per year as retrenchment fee...At most they just give you extra 1 month plus current pay & ask you to leave...

Since your wife is going to due on June...ask her not to think too much (worried that she may get post natal blues out of this)

Worse come to worse find another job in the same industry....since she is so experienced..I guess it should not be a problem..

Wish you all best of luck and look forward to your cute baby boy

[Gouldian]

Thank you gothia for your comments and well wishes.

[tineng]

Hi Gouldian, it was nice meeting you and your wife....

anyway, what she has encounter is a common occurance all over...and since she is due in june, ask her not to worry too much...the mood of your wife will affect how your kids will look like when they are born....

when my wife was heading a team of accountants, she will very intoralant of pregent women, because they are always taking leave and tired easily....she even gave people poor ranking for that period becuase seriously, there is not much she can write as these persons where not around most of the time....and when it was her turn....she got the same treatment from her bosses....

she was worried that when she comes back, she will be out of job - but end of the day her contriubtion was good enough, that when i comes to restructuring, she was the one that was the one retained...

ok...in case i get out of point - its normal for bosses to treat her that was because end of the day, it will be hard for her to keep up her level of preformance before her pregancy, all the more because she was the top preformer, others will have to work doubly hard to pick up the slack - thus the resentment.....but once she gets back to work, things will adjust and gradually get back to normal, so really, there is nothing to worry about - if anything, this incident will make her stronger ....

[Gouldian]

Thank you Tineng,

What you have mentioned is very true and it will encourages us to look at the situation more positively.

Yes, I strongly believes that she will continue to perform since it is almost 2nd nature to her liao.

Thank you once again for your positive outlook.

[tineng]

no problem....just to share a bit of experience.....my wife went through 2 rounds liao....but that didn't get her fired....in fact, she seems to be doing well and given good opportuities....

[LaW]

i know nuts about these.

however, that boss is definetly too outrageous.

hope everything goes well for ur family, Gouldian.

regards,

LaW

[gothia]

Thank you gothia for your comments and well wishes.

hi gouldian,

its ok..hope whateva i said did not offend you cos sometimes i dun know how to put my words right..

what i am trying to say is to look at the bright side...probably things might not turn out so bad at the end of the day..since her boss never really mention abt asking her to leave so act blurr loh..( at least still got income )... but if he did one day..tell mrs. gouldian to demand for a compensation for what she deserved as agreed on the employment letter..

best of luck ah...dun think too much until white hair all come out... welcome ur little cute baby boy's arrival with a smiley face!