Man commits suicide at Tampines

[seamonkee]

Actually - without the casino built. There are already alot of floating casino around .... If you ever join cruise to no where stuff .. they have already in built that into the cruise. That's what exactly what my relative did - he hop into one of these cruises. Though there is not much publicity.

With floating casinos... yeah, the low publicity and there's the trouble of going on the cruise, passport, blah, blah.... all these administrative stuff are good enough deterents...

Comparatively, we are now talking about a government sanctioned casino erected publicly on national ground....

There's a difference...

[riot]

I differ from seamonkee's view on this. People with vices will find ways to satisfy these vices. In the past, under LKY's stalwart stance against Casinos, we already have people doing the high dive due to loan shark problems.

I think the same issue applies to legalized prositution. Singapore is one of the few countries with legalized brothels, controlled tightly by the govtm, and yet we do not have much (if any) of the social problems that accompanies such activities. It might not work in a more relaxed society like the States, but under a iron tight regime like the PAP, it could be possible.

[seamonkee]

I differ from seamonkee's view on this. People with vices will find ways to satisfy these vices. In the past, under LKY's stalwart stance against Casinos, we already have people doing the high dive due to loan shark problems.

I think the same issue applies to legalized prositution. Singapore is one of the few countries with legalized brothels, controlled tightly by the govtm, and yet we do not have much (if any) of the social problems that accompanies such activities. It might not work in a more relaxed society like the States, but under a iron tight regime like the PAP, it could be possible.

Yup, I agree that people with vices will find ways to satisfy them.... of course, that's the point I am trying to stress across... with a "floating casino" in international waters versus one that is opened publicly on national land.... which is easier to access?

Maybe something more down to earth for comparison... remember those days when pirated PC games were all found under one roof in Sim Lim Square... It was so easy then to buy pirated games..... now gotta crack brains just to find one shop through contacts or so....

The same goes for such "floating casinos" or underground vices... u must have the contacts and it is definitely less accessible... comparative to one that is publicly opened. At least, it deters to some extent, the plain lazy people or people with no such contacts..

As for legalised brothels.... there ARE social problems perhaps not as serious, sensationalised or leading to death such as gambling.... divorce? illegal immigrants? STDs? AIDS?

In a crude way if I may put it this way, sperm is unlimited and free.... U need money to eat and survive another day not sperm.... ..... gambling drain your money which cannot come back.... Sperm? All you need is a nap...

[akirasan]

Yup, I agree that people with vices will find ways to satisfy them.... of course, that's the point I am trying to stress across... with a "floating casino" in international waters versus one that is opened publicly on national land.... which is easier to access?

Maybe something more down to earth for comparison... remember those days when pirated PC games were all found under one roof in Sim Lim Square... It was so easy then to buy pirated games..... now gotta crack brains just to find one shop through contacts or so....

The same goes for such "floating casinos" or underground vices... u must have the contacts and it is definitely less accessible... comparative to one that is publicly opened. At least, it deters to some extent, the plain lazy people or people with no such contacts..

As for legalised brothels.... there ARE social problems perhaps not as serious, sensationalised or leading to death such as gambling.... divorce? illegal immigrants? STDs? AIDS?

In a crude way if I may put it this way, sperm is unlimited and free.... U need money to eat and survive another day not sperm.... ..... gambling drain your money which cannot come back.... Sperm? All you need is a nap...

A well thought out and sensible argument. I totally agree with you. We are gamblers living in a gambling society. Nothing good will come out of a bloody casino. Been to casinos all over the world, vegas, australia, malaysia, indonesia, floating ones etc etc. In the high roller rooms what do you see, ASIANS EVERYWHERE.....

[35Cents]

Talking about sperm.....

the_sperm_bank.mpg

[seamonkee]

Let's face it.... ASIANS are hardcore gamblers.... esp Chinese... it's a cultural thing... (I'm Chinese too so I dare to say that)...

And the sperm ad... hahahahja.....

[mUAr_cHEe]

to me... it looks like debt collector whacked his whole family.... then staged it to look like murder-suicide....

[minsmarine]

to me... it looks like debt collector whacked his whole family.... then staged it to look like murder-suicide....

I buy your point.

[seamonkee]

to me... it looks like debt collector whacked his whole family.... then staged it to look like murder-suicide....

Doubt so.... if it is the work of the debt collectors, then there would have been a struggle and probably scratch marks here and there.... plus things knocking over here and there...

But hard to conclude though.... gotta see what the forensics have to say....

Interestingly, I would like to know how the two kids die.... cause it is mentioned there are no marks on the throat or so.... but there are strangle marks on the wife.... maybe pillow?

[mUAr_cHEe]

i agree with u... hard to say....

but for all u know... maybe they cleaned up or sumthing....

my line of tot is that if papa really wanna kill all.... prob mama will ask children to run out and away to get help....

but we will nv know what REALLY happen... we are not them....

[AquaRa]

i believe the case of building a casino is more of a policy vs principle issue. i believe the casino will bring more revenue that will not only fuel our economy's growth and also boost our status as a major city in the world. It also provides hundreds of jobs for the jobless. Whether to gamble or not doesn't really concern us. I believe that whether we speak up or not, the casino will still be built.

[FuEl]

Anything which makes money goes. That's how things work around here, even though the consequences are apparent.

[AquaRa]

Doubt so.... if it is the work of the debt collectors, then there would have been a struggle and probably scratch marks here and there.... plus things knocking over here and there...

But hard to conclude though.... gotta see what the forensics have to say....

Interestingly, I would like to know how the two kids die.... cause it is mentioned there are no marks on the throat or so.... but there are strangle marks on the wife.... maybe pillow?

if its pillow, i thought the face will change colour...

[Creetin]

eh, if i ah long, kill them for what? pple die, go where to get money then?

no logic rite...

[yus75]

i believe the case of building a casino is more of a policy vs principle issue. i believe the casino will bring more revenue that will not only fuel our economy's growth and also boost our status as a major city in the world. It also provides hundreds of jobs for the jobless. Whether to gamble or not doesn't really concern us. I believe that whether we speak up or not, the casino will still be built.

hmmm but the money stil comes from the ppl right??? yes 1 will gain N 1 will lose....

[RockyBoy]

So the moral of the story is....more lives (innocent ones too) will be lost if a casino is within an easy reach... sigh...

[tivoli]

Hi guys,

1) About the casino, the Govt arguement is this : it is a 5 billion revenue generating business and Singapore needs it to make it big for tourism.

The problem is : The Govt hired tons of scholars and pay lots of money for external consultants and all they can think of to improve tourism is Casino ?

You can ask any Taxi driver and they will tell you, open big brothels district and package it as adult entertainment + open lots of high end drugs for entertainment + gambling + all sort of vices you get lots of money.... If you open opium agricultural field also can get lots of money.

So do our Country do what will bring in money and revenue ?

The issue is what is the principle we are basing our decision on ? What are the social ramifications ?

2) There are two types of Gamblers. The rich folks that can afford to lose money. The poor folks that uses Gambling as a false hope to make more money.

The problem with Gambling is the propogation of the false hope that you can make quick bucks not by using your hands and creative effort but by luck by shortcut.

If this principle spreads and everyone believes in it .... It will destroy the lives and people will not work hard to save and invest. Instead people will work hard, save and gamble.

3) The difference between opening a huge casino and gambling boat is the difference between Thailand ###### tour+###### district and Geylang.

It is the scale and public acceptance of lifestyle and it becomes a normal way of way, established into the national psyche.

[AquaRa]

the problem of problem gamblers in our country can easily be solved by restricting acess to citizens, just like in south korea, where all but 1 of its casinos are closed to their citizens.

[akirasan]

the problem of problem gamblers in our country can easily be solved by restricting acess to citizens, just like in south korea, where all but 1 of its casinos are closed to their citizens.

We are kidding ourselves if we think that this might solve the problem. When the casino's there, people WILL go. Even if there are 'restrictions', people will find a way around it. The way I see it, the Govt has already made its mind up. All these debates and forums etc etc are all for show. I only hope that they won't regret their decision. When the casino's up, it will be THAT MUCH more difficult to close down. Prevention's always better than a cure.

[Marineman]

There is always some negativity in allowing casinos to operate, things like vices, loan sharks, suicides etc will continue to rise, but then if you don't allow casinos in, gamblers will go abroad, the rich ones of course, but the poor gamblers are the likely ones to suffer, already not earning enough they will gamble away the little they may have for their family.

Spore aims to be a hot tourist destination and will need casinos to atrract more flow of foreign exchange into the country, I suppose the govt. has done a lot of evaluation and is willing to live with the down side, besides you can bet online too.

[akirasan]

There is always some negativity in allowing casinos to operate, things like vices, loan sharks, suicides etc will continue to rise, but then if you don't allow casinos in, gamblers will go abroad, the rich ones of course, but the poor gamblers are the likely ones to suffer, already not earning enough they will gamble away the little they may have for their family.

Spore aims to be a hot tourist destination and will need casinos to atrract more flow of foreign exchange into the country, I suppose the govt. has done a lot of evaluation and is willing to live with the down side, besides you can bet online too.

Correct and I agree with you, but as previously mentioned ( I can't remember who ) AT LEAST there is a hassle involved with gambling now. Gotta go on a cruise, travel to Genting, leave the country etc etc. When the casino's at our DOORSTEP, it'll be a completely different matter. SIGH.

[jc85]

Frankly, I tend to agree to have a casino here as long as measures are taken to prevent average income ppl from gambling in there. Some may urgue that they can always "go ard the system" but it will be too trroublesome to do so. They might as well go to their current method by visiting Genting, Batam, Bintan, cruise.

Let face the reality, what can singapore offer in 10 years down the road.

- I.T industry is dying. China and India is killing us.

- Manufacturing - China & Thailand is killing us.

- R&D - We simply cannot make it. Look what happened to the HP handheld that is developed in Singapore!

- Construction Industry - Nothing need to be said

- Bio-tech - Probably but how many employment & revenue can it generate for a 5million population country?

Tourism is the safest bet. We are seeing increasing tourist basically due to the rise of Chinese and Indian visitor but what have we to offer? Singapore ZOO? Sentosa? Clark Quay? If we don't have something more interesting, the tourist that came once will nvr revisit us again.

Think abt it.

[tineng]

heard that that guy also own loansharks $$$$......hope these blood suckers have nightmares for the rest of their live.......and live a long long long life.....

[darren]

Frankly, I tend to agree to have a casino here as long as measures are taken to prevent average income ppl from gambling in there. Some may urgue that they can always "go ard the system" but it will be too trroublesome to do so. They might as well go to their current method by visiting Genting, Batam, Bintan, cruise.

Let face the reality, what can singapore offer in 10 years down the road.

- I.T industry is dying. China and India is killing us.

- Manufacturing - China & Thailand is killing us.

- R&D - We simply cannot make it. Look what happened to the HP handheld that is developed in Singapore!

- Construction Industry - Nothing need to be said

- Bio-tech - Probably but how many employment & revenue can it generate for a 5million population country?

Tourism is the safest bet. We are seeing increasing tourist basically due to the rise of Chinese and Indian visitor but what have we to offer? Singapore ZOO? Sentosa? Clark Quay? If we don't have something more interesting, the tourist that came once will nvr revisit us again.

Think abt it.

i am against opening of casino.

from a social viewpoint, it is undeniable that casino brings more cons than pros(is there any?)

many argue that the pros, in the form of the revenue a casino will bring makes it foolish for singapore to stay out of this industry.

but does opening a casino automatically brings in the billions of dollars in revenue every year?

from a solely economical consideration:

opening a casino is not a sure bet of money making. and if indeed it becomes a success(a comercial one at least), the money plow into the casino from tourist will also suck money away the other tourist attractions in singapore. (you lose big at the tables, u're less likely to spend more on prada bags at orchard) so, there is definately a trade-off. its not simply money in all the way, as many people thinks.

one of the safe-guard against local population(esp those who cannot afford to gamble their salaries away) is detering them from the casino. but if indeed, we refuse these ppl entrance, will there really be enough traffic to make the casino profitable?

there are casinos at the north, there are casinos at the south. why would tourist suddenly decide that singapore's casino is the most attractive one and change holiday destinations? esp since if we do open a casino here, singapore being singapore, for sure our casino will not be as fuss-free as the other casinoes in the region.

therefore, the social cost is very real. the economic benefit is well... at best a good potential.

saying all that, i too believe that the decision has already been made. i was at institude of mental health for a study trip, and someone of significant position there let it slip that there r already ongoing coordination bet the institude n the government in preparing a "addict-help" department.

so there....

[jc85]

No doubt that Casino will bring certain undesirable social effect. I will not doubt that.

Nobody can say for sure that a casino will a huge success but until this point of the century, it does seems to be the most viable option.

As the point that other tourist business will be affect, I do doubt it is the case. Tourist attraction like that zoo, birdpark, sentosa defintely depends on local visitor for a huge %. Just ask how many oversea tourist how they felt abt sentosa & zoo, none that I knew say we're world class and even consider visiting it again. Not even the underwater world. We can see that sentosa knew that because there are some shift in their market strategic, they are creating a lifestyle imgae tragetting at locals.

As for foreigner spendings, many rich and super rich business, royaties and celebrites around the region whom spent good $$ in singapore for branded shopping, medical or even just some timeoff from their country. They're turnout in a night at a casino can goes up to hundreds of thousands. I doubt they will so affected as to stop spending in other area if they does lose on the table. This are the ppl the casino should be (and I'm sure they're) targetting at.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers