Fishy Help

[Rufff]

Hi

New 2 marine club. My tank's over a month old. 3 of my fishes died on me & 1 is on the way. The 2 damsels seem unaffected & same with the cleaner shrimp. Have tried water change, FW dip (few seconds only), garlic juice-dipped-shrimps, meds (copper safe). NO2 & NO3 low & dun have any corals, just live rocks. The white spots R pretty bad but it seems that they mite also have fin rot (?) & some slime too (?). R they suffering frm something worst??

On the verge of giving up. Dun know how else 2 help them. Just watch them die helplessly. Arrgh!!!

Anyone got any ideas how I can improve their chances of survial. I'm at my ends wits.

Thanx a bunch.

[Razo]

maybe u can list down more info..

like size of tank..?

ttl no. of LS...?

did u add the fishes and cycle the tank with it..?

[Rufff]

Hi Razo

Size of tank only 2ft (normal sized one). Used to have 2 butterfly, 1 angel (the 3 that died); 1 Clownfish, 2 damsels & 1 cleaner shrimp (these 4 still alive, but Nemo is kinda on the verge). No didn't add fishes while cycling., water's steady now. Fishes R new addition. Water conditions seem OK, like NO2 & NO3 (that much I know). R there other things I need 2 watch out 4?

P.S :

Hehe .. giving up meant starting all over again (cycle water etc.), frm scratch not giving up totally, marine keeping is too fun 2 give up 2 soon. So much 2 learn ...

[jason]

Method 1

1 method is to keep your tank without fish for 1-2 months then the white spot will die out.........

method 2

my fishes always have white spot. what i do is i have a partition in my tank to keep the sick fish......... i will do fresh water dip with garlic for around 2-3 mins around 1-2 times a day........ for about 1-2 weeks untill white spot gone then still keep the fish in the partition for monitoring until really ok then release it.....

I have already cure a regal angel, purple tank and currently a powder blue in treatment........

Once the fish recovered..... they will have the resistant....... all my fish except the powder blue in treat are white spot resistant now...........

hope it help you.

[bwilly]

tik your tank overstock.

did u slowly add fishes or all at one time.

fishes get stress, their immune system will

be down n easily succumb to disease.

also adding all fishes at one go, will

stress your bio-load. ammonia got

no change to be converted to nitrite.

all this may contribute to the fish

getting stress.

ensure condition of water is good,

slowly add fish. use a test kit to check

for ammonia, nitrite n nitrate. check

also your PH n salinity level.

do upz some rescape for timid fishes to hide.

doing garlic soaked food should help.

note their condition closely. if got sign

of white spot, then quickly give them

garlic soaked food. drastic case, got to

catch them out n do freshwater dip

with copper (veri little) medication.

dun wait till almost the whole fish

cover with spots. its veri difficult to

cover by then.

by recently acquired royal gamma also

got spots. stress. but after awhile

oki liao. feed it with garlic food plus

it found a lobang as its new home.

[Rufff]

Hey guys

Thanx 4 quick reply, its really informative & useful. Will try some of your suggestions. Really hope that my squad will survive this itch invasion. U mean its overstocked?? Ooh didn't know. Nope I didn't add the fishes all at once, several batches actually. I guess it could be the stress of living is such a small tank after being caught from the vast ocean.

This forum has been a good starting ground 4 beginners like me, 2 get a feel of the whats & hows of marine keeping. Its been a great book of knowledge. I guess it helps that the local context is relevant & current so we can easily check things out 4 ourselves.

Once again, thanx so much 4 yr wise words & hope that every1 will B as helpful & gracious, especially 2 newbies like me.

Cheers!

[Crab]

Rufff,

If your tank is well cycled, ammonia & nitrite is normally negligible. What filter are you using? Maybe it cannot cope with the bio-load.

Butterfly & angel are very sensitive, that's why they die first. Even with tip top water quality and great filter/equipment, these fish may get itch. Diseases are normally introduced and spread from new fish addition. Especially from butterfly, angels & tangs. That is why a quarantine tank is so important for new comers.

What I do:

- Reduce salinity level to SG 1.014 for 1 month. (this is very effective) - Osmotic Shock

- Dose Paraguard (brand is Seachem if I'm not wrong)-It is an all in one medication. Have tried many, find this cheap & good.

- Feed with garlic soaked pellet if they're eating.

What I don't do:

- Fresh water dip, it will stress the fish further. Need to chase after the fish. Any bro here can share your success story? Did you adjust freshwater ph to 8? how?

- Copper dose, it is very difficult to remove after treatment. Osmotic Shock is more effective & it is free

Just my 2 cents

[Rufff]

Hey Crab

Appreciate yr help. OK my filtration system's not great. Using undergravel filter with Grade 5 Coral Chips (recommended by that shop in B***t T***h, said its good enough .. yeah rite! ). Being new/ignorant & not wanting 2 spend too much, was gullible enough 2 believe its sufficient. Also using top filter (balance-off old freshwater set-up), with new bio-balls, active carbon & sponge. Thinking seriously of changing filtration system (didn't expect 2 get bio-overload easily coz not much in small tank, only LS & 3 small LR).

Yeah angels & butterflys do seem gentle & sensitive; but they look soo beautiful & elegant. Must seriously consider a quarantine tank next time, better 2 B safe than sorry.

OK question ... how do I reduce salinity & PH in the tank? How 2 measure? (PH test kit??). Dun know whats Osmotic Shock (sounds scary .. hehe). Will try 2 get Paraguard to dose. Already soaking mysis shrimps in home-made garlic juice. Tried feeding them nori to up their resistance but no avail.

Yeah chasing them was torture ... definitely stressful 4 the fishy-ies. Didn't know need 2 adjust freshwater PH for dip either. Yeah heard copper is BAD thats why purposely went out of way 2 get copper safe meds.

Well , again!

[Crab]

OK question ... how do I reduce salinity & PH in the tank? How 2 measure? (PH test kit??). Dun know whats Osmotic Shock (sounds scary .. hehe). Will try 2 get Paraguard to dose. Already soaking mysis shrimps in home-made garlic juice. Tried feeding them nori to up their resistance but no avail

How to reduce salinity: Drain about 1/4 (or slightly lessor) of water from tank, top up fresh water (make sure fresh water are "de-chlorinated"). Test SG, drain and replace with fresh water, repeat until you reach SG 1.014.

Reduce PH? for what? PH has to be maintained at 8+. Measure with test kit. I prefer the "litmus" paper type. Normally Ph is not a concern for established tank. If PH happens to be a problem, dose ###### buffer to increase dKH (to about 8-9), high dKH = stable PH. I think this has been discussed in other threads.

Nori: AT (boss) actually posted a review on nori. Its actually those dark purple seaweed that we mix with steamboat. Can get it anywhere, like ntuc or market. Remember not to buy those nicely packed japanese brand. Problem is getting some fish to try it.

Shop in B***t T***h...... many ###### experience.......better don't comment anything, wait I get warning

I think you should reduce salt level first, this is easiest and most effective of all. Good luck.

[Achilles Tang]

Hi there,

I think you have several things to take note of:

1. your tank is small.

2. your biological filter system is, ahem, ineffective/wrong. If you can, reset up... your UGF is gonna cause a lot of problems very soon. Unsuitable for marine. Your livestock is gonna suffer.

3. Angels and butterfly fishes are unsuitable for new tanks.. they are highly sensitive fishes.

4. No2 should be zero, not low. You have to let us know your exact water parameters with proper measurements by test kits. Same goes for salinity and PH etc.

[Rufff]

Hi AT

1. Yeah .. know tank's tiny. Small by choice for now, coz didn't want 2 jump into a hobby thats been described as "tough" & $$ consuming. Will probably upgrade when more experienced & capable of handling a bigger tank.

2. Hehe .. now I know the undergravel filter's unsuitability. Will look into changing that ASAP. Guess we all learn frm mistakes.

3. Yeah .. didn't know that angels/butterfly R sensitive creatures & not suitable 4 beginners. Will definitely take note of that.

4. Water parameters ... OK will test & give details.

Thanx 4 taking the time 2 answer my queries. Everyone's been a great help.

[Achilles Tang]

Sure dude, no prob!

I think you can leave the UGF plate in the sandbed if you don't want to redo your tank. Just remove the tubes. You may have a month's worth of detritus and organic stuff decomposing inside your sandbed though!

[proms]

Hi Razo

Size of tank only 2ft (normal sized one). Used to have 2 butterfly, 1 angel (the 3 that died); 1 Clownfish, 2 damsels & 1 cleaner shrimp (these 4 still alive, but Nemo is kinda on the verge). No didn't add fishes while cycling., water's steady now. Fishes R new addition. Water conditions seem OK, like NO2 & NO3 (that much I know). R there other things I need 2 watch out 4?

P.S :

Hehe .. giving up meant starting all over again (cycle water etc.), frm scratch not giving up totally, marine keeping is too fun 2 give up 2 soon. So much 2 learn ...

hi there,

For 2 ft tank, you should keep at most 3-4 fishes.

If you intend to keep angels or buttleflies, keep at most 2 (those dwarf sizes only) for 2 ft tank.

Cheers !

[Rufff]

Hi!

Here's further info on water -

NO2 : 10 mg/l (0,1)

NO3 : 5 mg/l

PH : 8.3

Temp : 28 deg C (with single mounted fan)

Salinity : 1.020

Other tests I need??

Thats all I have for now.

P.S : My clownfish went 2 fish heaven this morning

[Crab]

NO2 : 10 mg/l (0,1)

hmmm... either your tank not cycled, if not it's "bio-overloaded"

Suggest you redo your tank with right equipment & procedure. IMO, 2ft can keep marine successfully if you do it correctly. Some basic marine books even show you how to set up under gravel filter. Its just not suitable for long run. Don't think your problem lies with that since its only a month.

FYI, I don't even test water parameter with new setup. Everything will be in order when I did it correctly.

[Rufff]

hmmm... either your tank not cycled, if not it's "bio-overloaded"

Huh not cycled? Aiyoh, really?? But its over a month oredi .. thot its OK by now, mayB I'm wrong ...

Suggest you redo your tank with right equipment & procedure. IMO, 2ft can keep marine successfully if you do it correctly. Some basic marine books even show you how to set up under gravel filter. Its just not suitable for long run. Don't think your problem lies with that since its only a month.

Yeah seems like I need 2 redo the right way. UGF doesnt seem to win favour, I think its wise 4 me 2 change 2 better filtration system.

FYI, I don't even test water parameter with new setup. Everything will be in order when I did it correctly.

Yeah at 1st thout not necessary 2 test water conditions, but its seems the usual practise & safer for yr aquarium contents, so shall follow their lead. Last time kept FW never tested anything .. hehe (fish even flourished). I guess different style 4 different game.

Nori: AT (boss) actually posted a review on nori. Its actually those dark purple seaweed that we mix with steamboat. Can get it anywhere, like ntuc or market. Remember not to buy those nicely packed japanese brand. Problem is getting some fish to try it.

Yeah bought the same brand (saw its pic in forum). Fishes didn't fancy them. Well I tried ..

Anyway, 4 yr input.

[Achilles Tang]

Hi!

Here's further info on water -

NO2 : 10 mg/l (0,1)

NO3 : 5 mg/l

PH : 8.3

Temp : 28 deg C (with single mounted fan)

Salinity : 1.020

Other tests I need??

Thats all I have for now.

P.S : My clownfish went 2 fish heaven this morning

You should not be registering any readings of NO2! This shows your tank filtration system isn't fully cycled yet!

Get your salinity up to 1.023 at least.

At higher temps, ammonia intoxicity is increased, FYI.

[Rufff]

OK AT

I guess that explains why my fishes died huh? (Why R D damsels & CS still alive??) Won't B buying any LS anytime soon. Will try 2 solve "problems" with setup B4 moving forward.

1 off-topic question - will I B able 2 add more live rocks in the future after the tank's established? It will increase the No2,No3's etc, thus endangering my LS rite?

once again.

[Achilles Tang]

If your new LR are well-cured, there shouldn't be a spike or a negligible one that your current filtration system can handle quickly.

[Rufff]

Got it Thanx!