Nutrients too low??

[RAV-65]

Hi guys,

an interesting read on SPS tanks with super low nutrients and the SPS are losing colour!

Juz thought of sharing it here :

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...25&pagenumber=1

One thing comes to mind... does any zeovit users experience this??

[weileong]

The zeovit sytem is not the only low nutrient system around.

There is another method (much cheaper) but end up also much less colors in your SPS

Why why why? End up some of the "another method" reefers have switched over to zeovit

[RAV-65]

The zeovit sytem is not the only low nutrient system around.

There is another method (much cheaper) but end up also much less colors in your SPS

Why why why? End up some of the "another method" reefers have switched over to zeovit

Seeing some of the spectacular German SPS tanks around, I would say that the zeovit system surely has its pros.... but seems pretty troublesome to some people in terms of having to "maintain" the zeovit system...

[Achilles Tang]

Talking about Zeovit system, I heard it from an overseas reefer friend long before it even got heard of in USA or SG.

Frankly, I heard more negative things than good... and today... looking at RC... it seems that more people are experiencing the statement what a reefer from UK shared with me a year ago... Zeovit stresses corals to an extent and the statement used was that it "partially kills the corals".

He has actually met the guy who produces Zeovit... he verifies the corals are real but he could put it down to getting the "best of" from every batch of corals that come in.

Anyway, he has told me he has stopped using Zeovit since he learned how it works.... he has yet to give me details though. And that was a year ago.

My 2 cents? Zeovit works to a certain extent but there is far higher risks of loosing corals in the effort to induce better colouration.

I am not a Zeovit user but I have been tempted. I hope the local Zeovit users can give honest feedback on how risk-free this chemical system is.

[andysho]

i also use zeovit system pretty early when not much people using in local ~~ due to not many ideas were being contribute from reefers or inexperience in this

so call zeovit~~ have lose some sps~~~ To use this zeovit, one needs patience and the exact amount of dosage into the reef tank~~ any overdose can cause loss of tissue.

Some oversea reefers hates this product to extreme while some love

it to the extreme

The main key to this zeovit is to let sps get used to it slowly~ if one bring

down the nutrient too fast~~ sps will suffer loss of tissue

Example before i use zeovit my no3 was around 20 or so after i use

my goodness it drop to nearly 2 in a short period, the good thing

is i have reach my no3 reading to what i want ~~ the bad news is my sps gone

due to stripping of nutrient too fast

Just rem this zeovit is not some magic or wat~~ to really fully understand this product, one have to really know how each product function and invlove some boring study on chemistry stuff and daily pumping the zeovit reactor 10 times or so

[RAV-65]

Bro, I understand about slowly introducing the zeovit to the tank to let the SPS get used to the low nutrients environment, but wat about new colonies that we wan to add to the tank when the nutrient levels is already very low??

[chanbi]

My limited experience (i only on my 7th week into Zeovit) said that wild colony may do better in Zeovit's maintained tank. I have just took over some sps colonies from a friend (who is giving up sps) and i have some casualty due to STN (his tank should have some nutrient given the amt of hair algae that comes with the sps) and i have also bought some new wild colonies and so far so good. After some thought, it seem logical to me, ie. our so called "nutrient low" tank has a water condition that is closer to the natural (if we believe in what the Zeovit system should do) and wild colony should be able to adapt well? And to be honest, it changes my perspective... I used to prefer to get "seasoned" colony from fellow reefers but now i am confuse? Btw, i have just gotten a few frags from another fellow senior reefer and i shall see how it goes. But one thing that need to take note is also the water condition of his tank (his tank looks good although its only less than 2-3 mth old).

[madmac]

From the RC thread, the general view is that a too nutrient free environment will not produce the good, deep coloration that is desired by many SPS keepers. Another common believe that led to this, is the over-exposure of Halide lighting.

Corals look bleached and pale looking, but still alive and growing.

Various methods were suggested to bring up the nutrient levels in the water column include the following :

- feed the corals after lights go out.

- reduce skimming

and lighting,

- reduce photo-period

- bring the lights higher away from the surface of the water.

This view could be great news if proven true as it would reduce the energy cost and maintenance of tightly-strung-up tanks and allow for some leeway as far as parameters go. It will also mean that less expensive systems/equipment can be deployed without much worry... leaving us with more time to enjoy our hobby.

[AlfaRomeo]

With sufficient lighting intensity, a MH photoperiod of about 8 hours or less is sufficient. There is a theory going around that too long a photoperiod at max intensity actually is detrimental to the corals. Its called photo-inhibition.

There are senior ppl in RC running 250W 10000k DEs for 5-6 hours a day and their SPS corals does perfectly fine and in fact become deeper in coloration (not deeper brown but deeper reds/blues/pinks etc etc). So why do we need 10 hrs of MH? makes me wonder too..

[Achilles Tang]

Lighting is an interesting topic because of the various bulbs available with different intensity, PAR and different spectral peaks. 250w of 6500k is way better for corals then 250w of 20k but visually sucky.

Back to the Zeovit method... the claims that a sudden reduction of nutrients is stressful to corals is quite strange... as a substantial water change does that as well... and the corals are fine... but do that with zeovit and the results are disastrous. Strange.

[AlfaRomeo]

There are theories being discussed stating that some of the zeoliths being used are actually releasing po4 binding agents like Aluminium or Fe and it will bind with the available PO4 and be extracted out by the skimmer. Thats why the flow rate thru the reactor is very important and too high a flow will caused the SPS to react negatively. Thats also why the use of carbon and an efficient skimmer is highly encouraged.

It ties in with the use of zeostart, its theorized that zeostart actually accelerates the release of the binding agents and thats why an OD of zeostart is detrimental to the SPS tissue.

What is still unknown is how the zeoliths affect no3 since almost all of the zeovit users now have undetectable levels of NO3. What is also unknown is why the corals react the way they do and color up beyong what is achieveable by ordinary more well-known husbandry routines.

[Achilles Tang]

Zeovit method is certainly interesting but I personally know of one local Zeovit user who faced problems even though he is extremely conservative by underdosing. Some corals are very nice looking but the rest are not and he has lost a number of specimens. He is also very concerned with the initial lab rest results of some of the zeovit solutions that may not be as per what it advertises.

[AlfaRomeo]

I guess this forum will help you AT. www.zeovit.com

Some of the 'gurus' from RC hangs out there

There is always a certain percentage of failure with every system like Rowaphos/DSB etc etc. There are a lot of local reefers here with success with the zeovit system like yours truly! Granted most of us are less than 5 months old into the system but the changes/improvements afforded by the system is very apparent in the limited time we are using it.

The best setup for the ZEOvit to work is with a Bare Bottom tank with lots of flow.

I spoke with a senior reefer today here who just started zeovit for 2 weeks so far and nitrates went from 5 for the last year or so to undetectable in 2 short weeks. That shows that its more than just 'sugar-water' which some of the RC ppl seems to think at the moment.

[weileong]

I started with just 25% of the recommended dose then increase to 50% and finally to full dose all in 18 weeks time. With this gradual increase in dosage I lost only 3 colony. In the first place these 3 colony are not doing well in my tank.

I've started the zeovit on 7th Sept and coming to 5 months soon. NO3 are undetectable and PO4 undetectable with salifert test kit but 0.05 with hanna PO4 meter.

There are folks in RC that do not use rowaphos all along and when they add in rowaphos and they experience RTN/STN on they corals so a sudden decrease in nutrients (PO4 in this case) caused the coral death.

[AlfaRomeo]

For my case, I went from 50% for 2 months and increased it to 80% for a month and then 100% from then on. Started the ZEOvit system on 23rd of Sept 2004 and was hit by STN for 1 colony so far. Rest of the colonies are coloring up as weeks go by and the nutrients from the DSB get depleted slowly and steadily.

Was already using rowaphos before I converted to the ZEOvit system. What I can say is dat the zeovit system is more comprehensive in tackling the nutrient problem associated with high bioload with compared with Rowaphos. For the record I have 6 tangs that shit and eat the whole day! Yet PO4 and NO3 is undetectable with Salifert. Amazing? My humbly think so.

[planetg]

Well. I have mixed feelings abt Zeovit.

For 1 yr, I've been fighting diatoms on sandbed. Too poor to use RO/DI

Using an oversized Beckett, I still fought relatively high nitrates (5-10ppm).

Due to my bz work schedule and lack of time to provide more TLC, I ignored these readings and carried on stocking up. Strangely, most of my SPS appeared decent except for a few RTN or brown-out.

Started Zeovit 2 weeks ago at 50% dosage. Probably increasing later as I monitor the situation. After my 4th day of use, I came back from work to a wonderful surprise. Diatoms gone!!! Can't remember on which day, my brother was asking me if I did anything to the tank cos it looks clearer!!!

Then onwards, I took a couple of SPS for reference.

1. Green Humi

2. Peach Hacyinthus (is that correct spelling?)

3. Dark Purple Tenius

1. Lightening. Hopefully I can see 'another colour'?

2. Darkening a little. But noticed growth. Never been successful in keeping it.

3. Lightening big time. It has this amazing blue/purple glow.

During this observation, I lost 2 colonies. One is definitely due to the Zeovit effects while not sure if the Digitata is responding poorly to my tank conditions or Zeovit.

Clams however dun seem to like the new 'situation' and I've got Zoos melting. Luckily it's effects on SPS and LPS is more desirable.

Can't say for sure it'll work for any or everybody but it kind of worked for me. I was very skeptical and insisted that I'll not try it. But then one day backside itchy and I'm not looking back. Next time when I start a new tank, it's gonna be Zeovit right from the start!

For those contemplaing, I would say GO FOT IT (but bear in mind the pros and cons so you're prepared.)

Not to mention this is the first time in 2 yrs I get ZERO / UNDETECTABLE NO3!

[scarab]

Well. I have mixed feelings abt Zeovit.

For 1 yr, I've been fighting diatoms on sandbed. Too poor to use RO/DI

Using an oversized Beckett, I still fought relatively high nitrates (5-10ppm).

Due to my bz work schedule and lack of time to provide more TLC, I ignored these readings and carried on stocking up. Strangely, most of my SPS appeared decent except for a few RTN or brown-out.

Started Zeovit 2 weeks ago at 50% dosage. Probably increasing later as I monitor the situation. After my 4th day of use, I came back from work to a wonderful surprise. Diatoms gone!!! Can't remember on which day, my brother was asking me if I did anything to the tank cos it looks clearer!!!

Then onwards, I took a couple of SPS for reference.

1. Green Humi

2. Peach Hacyinthus (is that correct spelling?)

3. Dark Purple Tenius

1. Lightening. Hopefully I can see 'another colour'?

2. Darkening a little. But noticed growth. Never been successful in keeping it.

3. Lightening big time. It has this amazing blue/purple glow.

During this observation, I lost 2 colonies. One is definitely due to the Zeovit effects while not sure if the Digitata is responding poorly to my tank conditions or Zeovit.

Clams however dun seem to like the new 'situation' and I've got Zoos melting. Luckily it's effects on SPS and LPS is more desirable.

Can't say for sure it'll work for any or everybody but it kind of worked for me. I was very skeptical and insisted that I'll not try it. But then one day backside itchy and I'm not looking back. Next time when I start a new tank, it's gonna be Zeovit right from the start!

For those contemplaing, I would say GO FOT IT (but bear in mind the pros and cons so you're prepared.)

Not to mention this is the first time in 2 yrs I get ZERO / UNDETECTABLE NO3!

Bro, can post some before and after photos? Interest to see the difference.

[RAV-65]

Well. I have mixed feelings abt Zeovit.

For 1 yr, I've been fighting diatoms on sandbed. Too poor to use RO/DI

Using an oversized Beckett, I still fought relatively high nitrates (5-10ppm).

Due to my bz work schedule and lack of time to provide more TLC, I ignored these readings and carried on stocking up. Strangely, most of my SPS appeared decent except for a few RTN or brown-out.

Started Zeovit 2 weeks ago at 50% dosage. Probably increasing later as I monitor the situation. After my 4th day of use, I came back from work to a wonderful surprise. Diatoms gone!!! Can't remember on which day, my brother was asking me if I did anything to the tank cos it looks clearer!!!

Then onwards, I took a couple of SPS for reference.

1. Green Humi

2. Peach Hacyinthus (is that correct spelling?)

3. Dark Purple Tenius

1. Lightening. Hopefully I can see 'another colour'?

2. Darkening a little. But noticed growth. Never been successful in keeping it.

3. Lightening big time. It has this amazing blue/purple glow.

During this observation, I lost 2 colonies. One is definitely due to the Zeovit effects while not sure if the Digitata is responding poorly to my tank conditions or Zeovit.

Clams however dun seem to like the new 'situation' and I've got Zoos melting. Luckily it's effects on SPS and LPS is more desirable.

Can't say for sure it'll work for any or everybody but it kind of worked for me. I was very skeptical and insisted that I'll not try it. But then one day backside itchy and I'm not looking back. Next time when I start a new tank, it's gonna be Zeovit right from the start!

For those contemplaing, I would say GO FOT IT (but bear in mind the pros and cons so you're prepared.)

Not to mention this is the first time in 2 yrs I get ZERO / UNDETECTABLE NO3!

Interesting feedback bro....

But I guess the debate goes on about the zeovit being good or bad... we need more people with successful zeovit tanks here to boost the confidence...

[weileong]

Just like to add if no one noticed it and which most pple don't bother.

Too much flow thru the zeolites is also considered as overdose

So the flow has to be fixed around 400 l/h +/- 10% for every 1L zeolite.

Too high flow will also caused coral death. Good luck.

[AlfaRomeo]

Good point Weileong, those that are using the aquabee 2000 pump for the locally made reactors, hope you have turned down the flow! At max 2000L/hr thrut the reactor, RTN/STN is almost a sure thing.

[riot]

Just to contribute to the zeo discussion above,

I have been running zeo on my new tank since Nov 04. Without a dsb and a slightly undersized skimmer (HS for 400L) for my 4X2X2, PO- 0 and N3 - 0. Have ran a dsb plus beckett and I have never gotten the same results.

For those who think that that this is due to the 100% water change, my initial readings in Nov was PO 0.3+ and nitrates 3-5 as I have also brought over some of my old water. Zeovit placed in a mesh bag in the sump did not bring the level down. Since switching over to a local zeo reactor, my last readings a week ago was as mentioned. Zeo works (at least for me).

However, I do have slight tufts of hair algae growing in spots. Nothing too major- have to harvest once a while. Done in 5 min max.

[AlfaRomeo]

Riot, which reactor you using? make sure the flow rate is just nice

[riot]

Its an I-Zeo connected to my chiller output. Tecnically, powered thru an eheim 1260. Might explain the rapid drop in nitrates. But so far, my sps aclimitizing well no issues with RTN/STN (except when I drop them lah)

I am just thinking if the system is fully stabilized, do we have to watch the flow? Since there's no rapid drop in nutrients anymore, so wont the faster removal of any minute level be better?

Hope I am not off topic.

[weileong]

Running higher flow thru the reactor wouldexhaust the zeolites faster too and the change out period would be shorter.

[AlfaRomeo]

Flowrate should be at 400l/hr for every 1L of zeoliths used constantly. If higher flow, it may lead to RTN/STN due to the amount of Al ions being released rapidly by the rocks (if the latest theory is correct). Better be safe and stick to the guidelines bro.