Any advice for young wannabe entrepreneur?

[ervine]

Hi guys,

Got some serious things I need advice with especially from other budding or exisitng entrepreneurs..

I'm currently in my 3rd year in architecture at NUS and I'm seriously considering on graduating this year, giving up my potential 1st class honors to go ahead with plans on starting a small business with a few friends of mine.

While any sane person would say that I've gone mad because I'm giving up my honors, I feel that it's pointless for me to waste another year of my youth pursuing a piece of paper that in my opinion is worthless because I have decided not to become an architect in future.

In addition, I've always, ALWAYS, wanted to become my own boss and what better time than to start now while I am still young rather than to be tied down by family or financial commitments when I'm older.

Yes I am aware of the potential risks involved but after looking at the working life of a local architect during a internship stint, I have realised that this is not what I am looking for.

I have looked around for other possible careers in the creative lines but all of which would lead me to working under somebody else, while some people might think that I'm a little too over confident thinking that I can go out without any experience, I think that the challenge itself would be interesting enough to keep me going even though my bank account would probably run dry.

So as u can see it's a very big decision for me considering the risks involved... any general advice is more than welcomed...

Thanks a bunch!

Ervine

[Achilles Tang]

Not trying to rain on your parade but you have to sacrifice a lot to be on your own.

Every cent is going to be important and if you have financial commitments towards your family and loved ones, you will be needing a lot of understanding and support when the going gets tough.

1 out of 1000 entrepreneurs make it big. It's a combination of luck, vision, hard work, determination, sacrifice and opportunities that make or break an entrepreneur and the test of fire will burn up your will or make you strong.

I wish you luck... not many people have the discipline to be hardworking every single minute like those in their own businesses.

Perhaps Linkin Park or Scarab can advise you... they have their own businesses - a lot of ups and downs.... more downs in the beginning actually!

[diabolus]

i'd strongly advise you to complete your honors first.

Its always nice when you know you got something to fall back on.

[flubberina13]

Not having a concrete idea of what you have in mind but just my two cents for the following...

Made plannings on something like...

1) finance...where is it gonna come from, and where's the contingency cash coming from when you need it.

2) management...manpower? who's gonna do what?

3) 6, 9 months plans and then 1 year plans to check the feasibility of the business

4) Resources?

5) business contacts...and where the potential ones are gonna come from and where would you be able to source for more

6) business strategies/ gimmicks/ promotions to generate sales and maybe have a promotion calendar too.

Just rattling...

getting this from a lady who used to earn at least $15K a month when she was 23 before she left to pursue humanitarian goals...

[tineng]

i had wanted to quite studying in year 2 when i was in the uni in order to start my own business.....however, after weighing the risk involved, i stayed on another 2 years to complete my honours and another year before embarking on starting my own business....currently i'm only my 8th year of business, never did regert 'wasting' 2 years of my youth studying (altohugh my cert is kind of useless now...)....

[Dazza]

hihi Ervine

Its great that you dare to consider taking the risk in striking out on your own. In my personal opinion, I wud recommend that you finish your academic pursuits first as u wud then hv something to fall back upon in future shd u decide in a couple of yrs time that u'd prefer to go back to being a salaried employee.

In the meantime, u can do all the necessary background work & then still be an entrepreneur upon graduation. Talk to alot of people in the industry that u've decided to go into first. I can tell u first-hand, its a lot of hard work & sacrifice being your own boss as compared to being a salaried boss in a company.

It's all up to what u want out of your life thats all. Take your time, age is on your side..... (at the moment)

All the best

[joeyttk]

just my 1 clam worth of advise, I dun think it is advisable to ran too fast. studies is always something to fall back on. However, having said that, I also stop after 3 years to pursus the internet bubble. I cant stop a moment to think that I can tahan another year of study for the honours degree.

The hard truth is, if u start early, chances of failure are higher, most likely due to the lack of exposure, visions and poor feels of the market. However, the later u start, your opportunities cost is going to be higher. It is harder to give up a meaty regular salary and earns very little for the first few years of your business.

My suggestions [if I can turn back my own clock], is to at least complete your study, and work for at least 1 to 2 years, network very hard, and then decide what is the right area to go into.

We can get quite heady with all the success story that we hear, but nothing ventured, nothing gain. It takes a lot of patience and planning. we only live once, so live it fully. U dun have to start a bizness to experience life. Neither does it means that working for others is a bad thing. It is a good learning thing and helps to build the calcium base for your future biz

[shoelevy]

would be good that you finish yr degree so that in case yr business doesn't work out you can go back to a career in architecture rather than feeling loss

[jc85]

I've been planning for more than 2 years and still have yet to make the jump.

My point is you can start preparing now and at the sametime complete ur honours. Wun it be like kill 2 bird with 1 stone?

The only advise I can give you is grab a job book to read.

Cheers

JC

[scarab]

Hi ervine,

I don't think you are mad to pursue your dreams of being your own boss. It is something you believe in and sometimes when the opportunity comes, you have to strike while the iron is still hot.

I do agree that architecture is one long course and if you graduate with the degree and you don't use it, you will feel it's a waste of time. And with the weak outlook of the construction market in Singapore (I know coz I'm in this sector ) it may not be something you will want your future to be.

You did not mention what business you are embarking on. Starting a business in Singapore is easy but maintaining one is not that easy.

Firstly, you must look at your product or service you are providing. Singapore is a very progressive and competitive market. You might think you have a good product or innovative concept but everyday these are being copied and modified leaving an entrepreneur hanging onto some worthless product after only 6 months.

Secondly, you must look at your financial standing. IMO you must be able to start with enough capital to last you for at least the 6 months and with income from your business coming in at least within the first 3 months. Usually startups in this nature has small capital so your ability to churn out profit quickly is of the utmost importance. This is something you must work out objectively before you embark on your venture. This will decide whether you can stay afloat or not.

Thirdly, Singapore being a competitive market, business contacts are very important. This is especially critical when you are new in the market and you have no references to gain your clients confidence. Depending on your business nature, building up business contacts to keep you running is something you have to do everyday. Like it or not, if your client likes you or your service, the job is potentially yours even at a higher price. I found out that one way to build business contacts, is to work for a company doing the same business you intend to embark on for a period of time, to get to know the people whom you should look for when you are on your own. This again boils down to the business nature. If you are selling a product for the mass market, you will rely less on the business contacts part. If you are providing a service especially a more specialized one, nobody will give a job to a newbie if they do not know you personally.

Last but not least, family support. Without this you will not go anywhere with your business venture. Sacrifices have to be made from all parties involved from late nights to unpaid bills to no holidays to sleepless nights to.... the list is endless. Well if your venture do succeed, all these sacrifices will be worth the lot but let me tell you it will not be easy when you are in those situations. Perseverance is vrtue like in reefing

One final word of advice, after weighing everything and you are still going to embark on your venture without finishing you degree (though you will graduate with a B. Arts Arch Studies after 3 years, I think), do continue to upgrade yourself with further studies when you can afford the time, like post graduate courses and stuff. It might not be useful in your business, but sure the hell look good on your name card. This will give you a chance to negotiate at a different platform. I notice this after I got my Masters and people look at you differently. Or a 1st class honours in B. Arch will be good too..........

Good luck dude

Francis

[ervine]

Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for all the advice so far... didn't expect so many replies over just one night.. haha..

Well anyway, I realised I did not mention the nature of the business, well not to let too much out of the bag, we are thinking of going into the creative service related line with a small tad of product to supplement. Not intending to rent as yet if we do so it will be an some obsucre location due to the nature of the business. Basically we are aiming to keep overheads low first then see how things go before we start bogging ourselves down with expensive rental and equipment.

Manpower wise it's not a problem I foresee, as for finances, we almost have everything which we need, investment wise probably another few thousand will be more than enough to keep us going for at least 6 months or more if we do not rent. Contacts wise we are a little short but once we build up the business plan we'll start to market ourselves a little stronger.

I would have expected a few people to advise me on to continue my studies, well just to let you guys know here are the reasons why I don't wish to pursue my honors:

1. because I simply cannot stand the way the school is run, I don't know about other courses in NUS but for my course I can tell you almost everyone I speak to has something bad and nothing good to say about the course. Hard to explain... It's not like my grades are really bad in fact they are considered to be very good but then again I have lost faith in the NUS grading system altogether and NUS (archi) as a whole for that matter.

I've already had enough of it's nonsense and will probably go mad if I take on another year or even 2 years to get my masters

2. If you ask me, an honors or no honors, will make a difference only if I'm looking for a job outside my field . In fact I wonder who would even hire me considering the nature of my degree (although I have already had offers for which I am not interesed). Furthermore, from what I understand in the creative fields no one really looks at how pretty your piece of paper is but how impressive your portfolio is. Hopefully this is true.

3. it's something personal but I don't believe that a piece of paper can prove how good a person is and I'm sick of people thinking as such, most people use the paper only to secure their 1st job then chuck it aside for the rest of their lives or hang it up as a piece of decoration.

My brother has an overseas masters in electrical engineering but is now slogging away for the government almost like an office clerk.. so what's the point of getting the paper? Higher pay? Coz he hates his job anyways...

4. I don't really care how people see me, masters, honors, degree, or whatever because I don't think I need to prove to them anything except that I can run my own business and run it well. In fact even if I get a masters from my school I don't think I'll feel any pride at all.

That said I also forgot to mention that I do have a plan B. In fact I intend to take leave of absence from my course for a maximum of 1 year. So I have that 1 year to make up my mind and make sure things go the way they are supposed to, if in that 1 year everything fails I still can go back to continue my studies. Though I hope that will never be the case.

Hm... well for those who have given up something to start their own businesses, have you ever regretted it? Even if you failed?

Thanks a bunch guys, need to clear my mind to make a decision.

Ervine.

[jc85]

U mentioned creative services....

I'm not to sure exactly what u refering to in details. But just a note, this market is badly tarnished by freelancer under cutting quotation. Do try to factor that into ur business plan.

Cheers

[ervine]

U mentioned creative services....

I'm not to sure exactly what u refering to in details. But just a note, this market is badly tarnished by freelancer under cutting quotation. Do try to factor that into ur business plan.

Cheers

Yup got that covered, in any case from what we see from the quality of work the freelancers produce are really quite poor no doubt their prices undercut the pros by more than half.

Well you pay for what you get... we don't intend to scrimp on quality to go for a better price, hopefully people can see that and would be willing to pay more.

I feel that for services a higher price with better quality/serivce does not equate to losing customers. But if we venture into our product idea then we'll go all out to undercut everyone else... different strategy for both arms of our business...

well at least that's in the ideal world...

[roidan]

Well bro, since you mentioned that you have been doing quite well in your grades, I feel that you should continue for your 4th year.

Reason is that it probably takes less effort for you to breeze past last year than your peers and you should never let go of this advantage. Your CAP score should be considerably high currently, comfortable enough and even if you lose enthusiasm like you are already mentioning, you should be able to get a decent honours by virtue of the CAP system….

yeah…the system sucks…but since you are a consistent performer, you are just right to do well under this system. Whereas if you have been struggling all these 3 years, then I will probably agree that you should leave and start working since continuing isn’t going to help you much under the CAP system.

Next comes to partnership with your fellow archi-mates, you must bear in mind that this is no longer group work for a particular module and everyone is happily or grudgingly messing around with Styrofoam, balsa wood and what-not in the workshop….it is no longer about grades. It is a matter of livelihood, and this is where friendships are often torn apart when it comes to partnerships.

It may come to a point where some will leave the partnership due to personal or external pressure like family/gf-wife that this venture isn’t going anywhere and a stable income is actually more important instead of ideals. As one leaves the venture, pressure and stakes are higher for the ones remaining.

And then we come to the venture itself. In Singapore, if you have anything really brilliant, very soon the big-boys (private/govt) will be there to eat your pie, and they are already in most places anyway. To find a niche for yourself is already very difficult and before your brilliant ideas come to bear economic long term fruits, other small outfits will be there as well.

And even if you do carve a place that the big boys can’t be bothered and there are not much small outfits competing, what you guys may earn is probably not worth all the pressure of it all to keep your outfit going. You might as well be an employee and let your employer worry about keeping the business running. Just do your part in your job and get paid on the dot.

Of cos there are intangible benefits such as experience of being your own boss, flexibility, autonomy and so on…..but there are really a lot of things going against you as well…

Money is one thing…but more often than not, friendship is lost as well. But if you have a financial backer who will help support the venture if anything goes wrong, then probably you can treat this venture as a paid experience for you and your friends to experience the benefits

btw: if you are feeling squeezed by the CAP system and want a breather, why not go for overseas uni attachment (SEP if i am not wrong), you just need to pass the modules at your attached uni and that also means you get to keep your current CAP score when you return (your honours almost presented on a plate to you liao)

An archi friend of mine went to University of Newcastle for the attachment....imagine all the fun there, watch EPL in the very county itself....experience what the brits are doing

[ervine]

Yes I can breeze thru year 4 and still pull of a decent honors BUT, breezing through is still not easy.. as it is, I'm already putting my studies aside to plan for my future but still I find it difficult to find time to balance the two. Also, I'm not the kind of person who will slack off and not put the required effort into a designated project even though I have lost interest in it...

But then again.. what's the point of the honors? To get a job? Coz it's close to useless in architecture (to be an architect) if not it'll be generic jobs which basically don't even require my experience or expertise at all. To get a higher starting salary? Perhaps.. but still.. generic job...

I have thought of SEP, it was actually my initial intention, but I rather spend the money to start a business, 1 semester in an European or American university usually amounts to S$10k while a Chinese or Korean one $5k... money which I can spend on other things... not to mention the fees for NUS itself for a year which would be around S$5k... put that together and I have S$5-10k to work with instead.

Actually what I'm most worried about is maintaining a reasonable income in the long run... I doubt what we have in mind will last us throughout our lifetimes.. my partner knows that as well...

Decisions.. decisions...

[roidan]

yeah, i agree that what you have been studying has a very high chance of you not getting the chance to use the knowledge since you have a clear idea of what you want to do, and it has got nothing to do with architecture. But look at it this way, you are already in it 3/4 of the way, why not just go for the 1/4 and complete it the best way you know it. After which, do whatever you want with your life/knowledge, like others here have also mentioned, at least you have a nice paper to fall back on. Not to say your 3year basic degree is not decent enough though.

But look around you, there are engineers who become school teachers and never get to use what they have learnt, there are engineers who join the financial industry....

although this one year may seem especially long for you compared to the earlier 3 years perhaps, but when u look back long after you grad, you will realise studying is still better, no matter how tough it was. Remember how we used to juggle 9-10 subjects during O levels? Seemed alot for us to handle at that time too, but now you look back? Doesn't seem to have caused a dent in our lives, instead we benefitted from it, even if some of the subjects have no direct practical application to our lives. So treat this honours year as gaining new knowledge and learn new lessons directly or indirectly from this final year.

Remember, although it seems to be expensive and wasting time for you to do this final year. Lessons in school are always CHEAPER than lessons you learn in life later on.

yeap, it is also best to discuss it in depth with your parents/gf/wife/relatives.

For every sucessful entrepreneur, there are tens of thousands others who have failed.

But we would definitely want to see that you will be successful in your endeavour and in whatever decisions you make

[tineng]

Hm... well for those who have given up something to start their own businesses, have you ever regretted it? Even if you failed?

hahah...never regretted what i did.....but i think i can never go back to working for others.....

having said that, i have 5 other classmates who have all set out to start their own bussines....other then me only 1 other guys is still running his own business...so its always good to have a backup plan....

[ervine]

But look around you, there are engineers who become school teachers and never get to use what they have learnt, there are engineers who join the financial industry....

Exactly why the paper is in fact useless... just to prove to a potential employer that you are of a certain calibre... sad but true..

Remember, although it seems to be expensive and wasting time for you to do this final year. Lessons in school are always CHEAPER than lessons you learn in life later on.

Actually if you ask me.. I'm not learning much from NUS.. most of the things I learn myself if at all... I seriously feel I'm not getting my money's worth in terms of an education.

For every sucessful entrepreneur, there are tens of thousands others who have failed.

Yups... of course.. nothing ventured nothing gained..

Well I know all the advice you bros have given is in my best interest.. really grateful for all the advice.. but I guess it's eventually down to me to make a decision... and the more I think and type the more it seems as if that decision has already been made...

[typrobin]

i always wish to be my own boss too...i believe 99% out of 100 males in singapore do..its a male hormone thing i guess...but only 10% out of this 99% will try..and only 1 out of 1000 who tried suceeds...

at this tender age (i believe we should be around the same), this toilet paper (degree,honours,masters,phd)is the most important thing in life so far...i also wanted to quit my studies and go into a small business about 1yr back...but luckily i didn't...

as scarab mentioned, u might have a "will not fail" plan, but this plan will not last forever...and furthermore, if u have nothing to fall back on, its gonna be quite tough...

till date, i have about 6-8 friends, who tried...none of them made it...they too, had a "will not fail" plan...but u need tons of experience and luck to run a proper business...its not something u can learn from books or just by hearing...its about learning them through working with it...u never know until u try, but make sure tat u have a backup plan just in case...

wish u all the best in watever u choose...

talking bout the toilet paper...yup, most grads end up in a line not related to their studies...i've seen so so many...but its just the facts of life (especially insingapore) that u need this paper to get u started...

other than professional like DOCTOR and LAWYER, i think most grads won't use wat they learnt...hahaha...

Bill Gates didn't complete his studies...but that's in US lah...

i sincerely hope tat u complete your honours 1st...then decide..cos u've been through 16-17yrs of education just to reach this level and giving it all up to TRY something "still unclear" is really very very RISKY...

[ervine]

i always wish to be my own boss too...i believe 99% out of 100 males in singapore do..its a male hormone thing i guess...but only 10% out of this 99% will try..and only 1 out of 1000 who tried suceeds...

at this tender age (i believe we should be around the same), this toilet paper (degree,honours,masters,phd)is the most important thing in life so far...i also wanted to quit my studies and go into a small business about 1yr back...but luckily i didn't...

as scarab mentioned, u might have a "will not fail" plan, but this plan will not last forever...and furthermore, if u have nothing to fall back on, its gonna be quite tough...

till date, i have about 6-8 friends, who tried...none of them made it...they too, had a "will not fail" plan...but u need tons of experience and luck to run a proper business...its not something u can learn from books or just by hearing...its about learning them through working with it...u never know until u try, but make sure tat u have a backup plan just in case...

wish u all the best in watever u choose...

talking bout the toilet paper...yup, most grads end up in a line not related to their studies...i've seen so so many...but its just the facts of life (especially insingapore) that u need this paper to get u started...

other than professional like DOCTOR and LAWYER, i think most grads won't use wat they learnt...hahaha...

Bill Gates didn't complete his studies...but that's in US lah...

i sincerely hope tat u complete your honours 1st...then decide..cos u've been through 16-17yrs of education just to reach this level and giving it all up to TRY something "still unclear" is really very very RISKY...

at this tender age (i believe we should be around the same), this toilet paper (degree,honours,masters,phd)is the most important thing in life so far...

Apologies but I disagree completely... there are a lot of things in life more important than a piece of paper...

but make sure tat u have a backup plan just in case...

Yup back up plan is my 1 year leave... so I have 1 year to try it out before deciding whether or not to go back... but the architecture friends that I have spoken to told me never to come back or even have the thought of coming back so that I will push myself more...

I bet if given a choice most of them would want to leave as well... or at least leave this school...

cos u've been through 16-17yrs of education just to reach this level and giving it all up to TRY something "still unclear" is really very very RISKY...

Well it's not like I get NOTHING.. I still getting a degree.. though quite a useless one.. haha..

Fan2 ah.. fan2 ah...

[Marineman]

Young Man in a Hurry,

You are young and there is plenty of life ahead of you, you can afford to waste another year getting the first class honours, it may not be important to you, it makes a difference to others as to how they see you, more respect, look up to you etc, it makes you feel good. There are a lot of successful businessman who does not have paper qualifications, some of them buy them to improve their self esteem as they feel that there is something missing, esp when they meet up with other business people and all of them have good paper qualifications, this will make him feel not at ease. People respect you more if you are a qualified architect and become a successful baker or comedian, actor etc.

Going back to study if business failed can be very demoralising, having to pick up where you left off and people do talk negatively abehind your back, like it or not, even if you are a emotionally strong person, you still have feelings. It's not the same, the momentem is lost........

Are your friends experienced enough to start this business? As many has said, it is not easy, getting jobs is one thing, collecting money is another but you still have to pay employees salaries, rental etc. If you have not work before, don't be in a hurry to be your own boss, get a job in a business you plan to do and learn the ropes of the trade first, with no experience you will have more hiccups and frustrations than those who have.

Finally, friends is one thing, money is another, money matters can make the deadliest enemies among good friends. You can see a lot of this in the real world, you may be the good guy but you get cheated, if you don't cheat them, they will cheat you, it's a wicked world out there, you are young, there is still alot to learn for you to read and judge people. Out of a billion people, there is only one Bill Gates.

If you are very keen to start business, you can still do so, be a not so active partner/shareholder during the first year of business and do your final year and get that first class honours. If business is good, you already have a good platform to start to be your own boss as the business is better established after one year and you still got the paper qualification, it means a lot to your business associates. If the business doesn't work out, there is no loss, it's a win win situation for you except that you only waste one year of your long life ahead, it's worthwhile...............

Old Timer not in a Hurry.

[ervine]

You are young and there is plenty of life ahead of you, you can afford to waste another year getting the first class honours

I've actually heard this countless times, especially from the older folk and goodness knows how many times from my parents... U know the old chinese saying.. "don't listen to old people, will regret later".. er.. something like that.. yah I guess it might be true.. but I'm not someone who always listens to his parents.. haha...

Going back to study if business failed can be very demoralising, having to pick up where you left off and people do talk negatively abehind your back, like it or not, even if you are a emotionally strong person, you still have feelings. It's not the same, the momentem is lost........

Actually the momentum is already lost for me.. in architecture I mean... and I agree that going back is very demoralising which is why it might push me even more to make sure I don't get into a situation where I have to go back...

People respect you more if you are a qualified architect and become a successful baker or comedian, actor etc.

Heard this before too.. but seriously I will not bother to put my qualifications in my name card considering the business I might be going into.. so I don't really think it's a big issue... and I seriously hope people will not judge me based on what paper is stuck to my name but rather the kind of work I can produce... but this is perhaps just being naive on my part...

It seems like a lot of people are pretty negative.. well not negative but rather trying to advise me to stay and get my honors... and I know it's probably for my own good... but I seriously seriously cannot see myself staying any longer than this semester...

I don't know if you bros can see it from my point of view but it's like when you are going to ORD and they tell u to serve one more year... get what I mean?

That's how I feel now...

[Marineman]

I've actually heard this countless times, especially from the older folk and goodness knows how many times from my parents...

Wisdom comes with age and life experience, the probability is that they can be more right than wrong.

Actually the momentum is already lost for me

If you find that to continue to study is such a torture, then don't continue, otherwise do by all means. You think that paper qualification is not important to you now, you may live to regret later in life.

It seems like a lot of people are pretty negative.. well not negative but rather trying to advise me to stay and get my honors...

Their advice can't go very wrong.

Looks like you have already made up your mind, unfortunately you did not get the support you hope to get to drop your studies and venture out.

Whichever direction you choose, I hope it goes well for you. The most important in life is to enjoy what you are doing and able to earn your living from it. Good Luck.

[Creetin]

interesting dude. many people wana be an architect... unfortunately wat u choose may not be wat u like.....

i say - follow your heart. live with no regrets...... but remember we all have a responsibility to the ones around you. weigh the pros and cons. as asians, we have to take care of our old folks..... no escaping around that. make sure u make provision for this.....

other than that, and not getting a gf/gfs, less clubbing, less LFS visits, less money, less freedom, but more fatigue, frustration, strained relationships, i dont see y not......since u already not happy now, may as well cheong. but like i said, dont cry boohoo later....no regrets ya...

[SpiderOne]

Creative services in singapore cant really make it unless online . when u can target an international customer base . Then its just 1 rule u have to follow .

No Online portfolio = no income tax

* wth wrong thread . edited post . *

Edited January 21, 2005 by SpiderOne