carbon and rowas during cycling

[wa_lanz]

i understand that during cycling best is don on skimmer.. let ANN cycle...

but wat about the use of carbon and rowaphos during cycle? should or should not? thanks =)

[weileong]

rowaphos should be in use to prevent build up and pooling of PO4.

[williammuk]

Agree with weileong. I use Rowaphos in FR from day 1. As for carbon, I think maybe shouldn't use -- same theory as not using skimmer. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

[kareen]

wana hear my comments? heehee...

Why waste your money when there is nothing inside your tank? Do it only when problem arises since there is not much to lose anyway.....

My 2 cents.

[scarab]

Use Rowaphos from Day 1 if possible like what weileong and williammuk said. Will save you future headache of phosphate leaching from LR and sand which was collected during cycling.

Better to prevent it before it hits you.

[kareen]

hmm.... u mean if use rowaphos during cycling process will warrant one NO NEED to use rowaphos after that? Hm.... **seriously don't think so leh**

[weileong]

What scarab, williamuk and myself mean is that if you use rowaphos from day 1 then the rowaphos will absorb the PO4 and prevent PO4 from being absorb by your LR, substrate etc.

From day 1 means you use it till the day your tank crash or tear down.

If you do not do that then the PO4 gets absorb and when you discover you have PO4 problem and starts to use rowaphos, then the PO4 will be slowly leached (released) and you will have problem like algae growing here. You'll be wondering where all the PO4 are coming from.

[kareen]

okay got the point. Thank pal. Sorry I think it that way cos I am not the type that just buy product just to follow the suit.... always thinking how to cut corners here and there **of course kena burn also lah** Thanks.

[scarab]

Firstly, if you do not use phosphate remover during cycling, phosphate will take 'root' or pooled in your LR and sand and will slowly leach out into your water. This process could take a long time and while phosphates are present on your rocks, tendency for cyano to bloom will be high. We have seen reefers having cyano bloom on rocks and sand, even when the phosphate test on water show undetectable. This is because of pooled phosphate in your rock and sand which was accumulated over time when phosphate remover was not used ie. especially during cycling. And mind you, organic phosphates are undetectable by test kits although they are present in your water.

However, using phosphate remover during cycling doesn't warrant you to stop using them when your tank is up and running. (Just checked my previous post to see if I really say NO NEED to use phosphate remover in future.....Nope, I didn't... ) Future use of phosphate remover is to remove phosphates built up due to fish excretion, decomposed food and matter in your tank as well as pooled phosphate leaching out from your LR and sand.

Don't leave home without it.

[AlfaRomeo]

Hear hear, I am the typical example of not using phosphate remover in the early stages of the tank... now suffering from cyano on the sandbed due to all that stored stuff underneath it. PO4 measures undetectable from testkit but still got cyano. Its a patience game now i guess.

So take note and use po4 removers from day 1!

[diabolus]

damnz....

i didnt use them from day 1!!!

wonder how much phosphate is in the LR and sand over a 4 mths period.

[scarab]

Think we all been thru that and still going thru it. I also a guilty party coz I don't even know whats ROWAphos when I started my tank. My rock still got minor cyano bloom now and then.

[AlfaRomeo]

DSB sucks! hehehe

[weileong]

DSB sucks! hehehe

so suck it out if possible

[diabolus]

so suck it out if possible

that will be an equilevant to a tsunami to the LS!

underwater sandstorm!

[kareen]

What scarab, williamuk and myself mean is that if you use rowaphos from day 1 then the rowaphos will absorb the PO4 and prevent PO4 from being absorb by your LR, substrate etc.

From day 1 means you use it till the day your tank crash or tear down.

If you do not do that then the PO4 gets absorb and when you discover you have PO4 problem and starts to use rowaphos, then the PO4 will be slowly leached (released) and you will have problem like algae growing here. You'll be wondering where all the PO4 are coming from.

hey guys, I know many of you agree but after some thought I am still not convinced leh....

During cycling process, there are a lot of nutrients..... If there are algae blooms during the initial stage, I think maybe in a way it will help or hasten the cycling process. **Remember plants take up all the nutrients to grow** By putting rowaphos from day 1 only **as far as I know of** absorbs only PO4 and sliciate stuff, hence prohbit the algae from growing. This in a way may actually affect the cycling process.

Also, one cannot guarantee that by putting rowaphos from day 1 will eliminate algae from growing 'cos there are just too many factors here. ie feeding, flow, etc, etc. This algae problem is just one of the things we constantly fight against with.....

Also, I didn't know of rowaphos existance till my tank is up and running with algae plaugeing all over the place. However, thru' chance that I introduce rowaphos into my tank plus other measures I deem fit, has removed as much unsighty algae as I have wish. I cannot say that my tank is free of algae now, but it is under control.

I am still using a little of rowaphos now in my tank. What I am trying to bring out is that : Do you really need to put rowaphos inside your newly, cycling tank where there are nothing valueables in it. What you are risking here is only.... er.... bacteria, worms, crabs, etc, etc. Do think very hard yourself about this. If you think it is really important nobody is here to hinder you..... with LFS pocket fat fat. Hahahaha.

Jus my 2 cents.

[diabolus]

kareen,

i dun see how the addition of any algae bloom will help in the process of cycling. The main purpose of cycling is to cultivate the beneficial bacteria. I dun think theres any connections between algae bloom and bacteria unless the algae are all dying off, but we have the market prawn to help speed up bacteria growth liaoz. On the other hand, if plants takes up nutrients, then how to do an accurate test on the amount of NO2 and NO3 in the tank?

wat william and the rest is saying is that the addition of rowaphos when cycling your tank is not so much to prevent the algae from growing.

It is more to prevent the sand bed and the LRs from absorbing the phosphate thats in the water. It is mean to be a precautionary measure and i find that it makes sense. If the rowas are able to get to the phosphate and remove them before it gets absorb by the sandbed and LRs, it will prevent any algae bloom on them in the future. If after a year then we start to introduce rowaphos, even thou we are able to remove all phosphate in the water, we will not be able to do so for the sandbed and the LRs. And there will be an algae bloom on the sandbed or LRs and we won't be able to do anything to it.

Ive started using rowaphos a month back, and the amount of GHA i'm facing in my tank is reducing tremendously. I've also not face any cyano bloom yet.

just hope not much phosphate got into my sandbed and LRs.

[weileong]

If your LS are healthy enough to tahan that one time sand storm then no issues.

I did major cleaning of my sandbed 2 weeks ago, water turn milky but no LS lost, no ich outbreak.

[patrick123]

Kareen,

This is an advise come from the experienced reefer. You can choose to agree or fight with the cyano later.

For me, I agree with the rest since I had gone through the same stage. Took me 9 months to get the cyano under control. Also, this is because I only use 3x150w. If I'm like the rest of the bro who use 250w MH, I think my cyano will still be there.

In any case, you have nothing to lose by putting the rowa on day 1. If there is nothing to absorb, the rowa can be used forever.....

[kareen]

ok ok.....but how PO4 got absorbed by the sandbed?

[kareen]

ok ok.....but how PO4 got absorbed by the sandbed? 

Can we say, **just a wild thought** after the cycling process, do a massive 'sandbed cleanup' (I mean stirring/siphon thru' the sand) before we introduce live stocks?

[patrick123]

Kareen,

You will be practically destroying your DSB and start all over again if you do a massive 'sandbed cleanup'.

The rowaphos absorb phosphate and silicate. The phosphate usually comes from the water you use....since most people don't use RO/DI from day 1. So there is a lot of phosphate there. Worse of all, there are a lot of silicate in the sand....

[diabolus]

Can we say, **just a wild thought** after the cycling process, do a massive 'sandbed cleanup' (I mean stirring/siphon thru' the sand) before we introduce live stocks?

then wat about the beneficial bacteria you cultivated for so long colonising in the sand bed?

most will be gone, and the tank is not mature enough to have enough bacteria in the filters,bioballs,LRs etc to stand in for the bacteria lost in the stir up of the sandbed.

[wa_lanz]

ok.. rowas are a must... wat about the use of carbon??

[diabolus]

GAC is also neccessary if you dun want ur water to turn yellowish.