Auto Top Up With Kalk Reactor

[Cookiemunster]

Hi guys and gals,

alot have already been said about auto top up device DIY. I am showing here how my version of auto top up works together with another great device, the Alvy Kalk Reactor.

As all of you know, a dripping method is cheap but problematic simply because the drip rate is hard to control and highly dependent on the amount of water in the container.

Auto-top up:

I am helping a friend to sell auto top up devices. I can build it myself which I did for Rumour and Bawater but I have no time to do many of these. Each of this set takes at least 6hrs to build. Hence my colleague is offering his services. I know the cost price was stated at about $60 per box. However my cost price is alot higher since I am using 2 float switches with 2 metres of cable each and with mounting stands to fit to any glass surface, an industrial standard OMRON relay with stand for complete isolation of AC supply, a regulated 12V power supply (not the cheap DC variable adaptors) and 2 LEDs for power on, pump on and a manual override switch.

The price of each auto top up device is $120 nett. The profit is only about $40 per box to cover the time and transport. This device is built by a qualified electrician and not a home DIYer. (not saying that home DIYers are not safe but ..... )

Kalkwasser Reactor:

The kalk reactor is built by Alvy. And we are incorporating it as a package. However if you require only the kalk reactor kindly approach him via PM and ask nicely as Alvy is a really great friend and nice chap.

The Kalk Reactor is sold at $150 nett inclusive of an internal circulation pump.

If you get both the auto top up and kalk reactor, its a special price of $250 nett.

Pls PM me for details or orders and kindly keep this thread clean.

Below are the photos and more information.

Auto top up:

[Cookiemunster]

The auto top up is connected to 2 float switches. Once the water level drops due to evaporation, the relay activates and the pump is turned on. I use 2 float switches for added safety as a single float switch can easily be activated by a snail or floating algae. A 3rd float switch was actually in my mind to prevent the pump from running dry when the fresh water container was empty but the cost would be too high.

[Cookiemunster]

Once the auto top up activates, fresh water from any container is pumped into the kalk reactor (or straight into the tank if not used with a kalk reactor). Kalk solution will then be forced out from its outlet into the tank. (Photo shows a better picture)

The kalk reactor has its own internal pump for circulation of undissolved kalk. This is the beauty of it. You can dump as much kalk you want into the reactor and not have to worry about it getting into your tank all at once since only the top kalk solution is pumped out of the reactor. Fresh water replaces via the long tube you see in the reactor. And since it is water tight, no worries about kalk reacting with air (CO2) to precipatate and become useless. And no worries about topping up with fresh water since all you need to do is fill up fresh water into a container and whenever tank water is evaporated, it will be replaced with kalk solution water. Here is the flow direction.

Water evaporates ---> auto top up activates ---> fresh water is pumped into kalk reactor ---> kalk solution is forced out into main tank ---> evaporated water is replaced.

[Cookiemunster]

Pls look at the Pasar Malam section for sales.

Cheers and best regards.

[DeepBlue]

I confirm I wan one....but can pay you on the 12th.....payday leh... we will fix it up after that?

I am using a sump...nnot refugium...still can?

[marinebetta]

Nice system, Cookie. Good example of how hobbyists can work together to help all of us! Will let you know when I'm ready to get mine!

[Cookiemunster]

Thanks for all the questions and comments.

Here are some answers to the questions I have been asked.

It is a kalkwasser reactor not a calcium reactor, hence no CO2 is needed. And no you do not need to add vinegar but you can if you really want to also. But I caution the use of vinegar unless you really know what you are doing....ie constant monitoring and measurement of pH.

The best thing about the kalk reactor is that you don't have to care about it. Just pour as much kalk you want into the reactor. I use 15 to 20 teaspoons of it. It will clear by itself and all the undissolved kalk will settle to the bottom. However by connecting a timer to the external pump of the kalk reactor and setting it to activate every 45 mins, a constant stirring is created without the use of any spoon which can introduce air into the mixture and waste the kalk.

This kalk reactor is an air tight container which due to its design, allows freshwater to be pumped in, and kalk solution forced out into the tank. Hence all you need is to renew the freshwater in any container and connect the auto top up device to the kalk reactor.

No extra kalk precipitate will be released into the tank because only the top most part of the reactor kalk solution is forced out into the tank, hence all the excess kalk stays below (bottom half). As you can see in the photos, the white milky part is caused by the external pump stirring up the kalk every 45mins (set by your own timer). There is no need to worry about the kalk turning the whole tank milky because as you can see even when the pump is activated, the mixing only occurs on the bottom half. This not only ensures a concentrated kalk solution but it is also free from kalk precipitate.

And you only need to top up fresh kalk when it runs low. And of course fresh water into the container.

The dimensions of the kalk reactor I will provide tonight. Off hand, the rough estimate is

Auto top up device:

1 small black box (20cm length x 12cm width x7cm height)

Kalk reactor:

60 to 70 cm in height

15cm diameter

Base area (inclusive external pump) 15cm x 25cm

[Cookiemunster]

Auto Top Up:

There will not be any problem to maintain your tank water replacement. You will need a small pump. Probably a SICCE NOVA unless the height of your tank is more than 5ft. In fact you can use any pump connected to a pail or container of freshwater and with its socket plugged into the top up device. You will need some hoses to connect from the output of your pump to the man tank and a anti flowback valve. These are really cheap. Only $2 for the valve and hoses depending on the pump you choose.

However, if you want it to be hassle free, you will need an extra large container to hold the fresh water. But the benefit is that you can simply pour seachem prime or other antichlorine into the water and not straight into the tank. I also place a bag of carbon to absorb any stuff from the freshwater in the container.

Not to mention, when you are not around for more than a week. You WILL need an auto top up.

Nonetheless, it is better to top up freshwater slowly and maintain the salinity than to pour buckets of freshwater straight into the tank. It stresses your corals and fishes.

These are the advantages of an auto top up.

[Cookiemunster]

hi

By using auto top up+kalk reactor, will there be too much kalk pump into the tank? Since the rate of dripping kalk depends on evaporation.

I use a fan blowing into the water to reduce temperature thus I am concern if there would be too much kalk if using your method.

Thanks

It is only a problem when you pour large doses of it into the main tank direct all at once. Thats why people drip it in.

However it is never a problem to replace evaporated kalk. And especially since it is only kalk solution with very very minimal undissolved kalk in it, it will never be a problem. Just make sure you don't use vinegar together with it. In fact this method adds kalk in a smaller rate than dripping. The pump is not activated all the time and only comes on when the water level is below a preset level (determined by placement of float switches).

Remember evaporation does not occur suddenly at one go. It is very very gradual and constant. Hence the replaced kalk water is slow and constant too. Of course you must not use a iwaki 70 to power the replacement water. Just a small pump like a SICCE NOVA will do.

The kalk that is released into the tank by the kalk reactor goes out from a air hose. Hence the kalk solution is released in small amounts dependant on evaporated rate. If you are keeping exceptionally small tanks and still want to use the kalk reactor, no problem, just get a g-clamp to control the rate of flow out to restrict the output to an even slower rate. But even if you do not do that, its fine too. Simply because you are only adding dissolved kalk solution to replace evaporated water.

[Cookiemunster]

If I want to increase calcium levels should I get a kalk reactor or a calcium reactor?

Actually if you are keeping a tank full of sps and clams like morgan or Joe_p etc, you should have both. Because as you know from them, even their calcium reactors cannot maintain the calcium intake.

So it greatly depends on your calcium demands of your tank. If its not so high, a kalk reactor will be more than enough. But if its super calcium demanding, then a calcium reactor together with a kalk wasser reactor will be needed.

These two compliment each other. They are used for different purposes. Calc reactor concentrates solely on replacing and increasing calcium and maintaining dkh as well as releasing trace elements when using aragonite or coral chips. But pH is lowered so a buffer is needed. And constant tweaking of the bubble count (CO2) is important so that pH is not reduced too much.

Kalk reactor only maintains the calcium and dkh levels and buffers the ph at 8.3. To increase calcium you will need to add calcium additives like seachem reef calcium. Once calcium is increased to the levels you want, kalk will maintain it there. The same thing with dkh. You will need to use seachem reef builder to increase dkh and use kalk or calc reactor to maintain it.

However, kalk additions improve the water quality as it precipitates phosphates and buffers the water to maintain at 8.3ph. Somehow (anyone care to elaborate?) water quality improves in the sense of coralline algae growth, less unwanted nuisance algae etc.

I hope you understand what I am saying cos its quite complicated and it took me a damn long time to understand what the heck all this jargon is about too. I am still not completely clear about the benefits of kalk compared to calcium. So perhaps the experts may want to clarify or correct any misinformations.

There are more complicated issues such as adding vinegar to allow more kalk to dissolve. (thicker concentration) But I only recommend this if you know what you are doing as vinegar is acidic and too much can cause your tank ph to drop below 7.9.

To maintain a balanced tank, salinity, ph, dkh and calcium has to be in balance. A kalk reactor only aids in maintaining the ph, dkh and calc. The auto top up helps to ensure the salinity does not swing too much due to loss of water by evaporation.

But ultimately, proper reef keeping (slow stocking, knowing your corals and fishes, knowing their requirements, knowing which are compatible, understanding nitrogen cycle) is still important.

I need to stress that this Auto Top Up With Kalk Reactor is not a miracle solution to a balanced reef tank. It only helps to make reefing easier. There are many other methods.

[Cookiemunster]

Hi bro,

Hmm, it sounds good. May I know how much does it cost and would it be effective to my tank as mine is really really small; just 5gallon. Can I use a really small container to hold the freshwater.? And, please help to clear this doubt of mine: The water level in my tank has been decreasing day by day. I know it's partly due to evaporation. However, how about the loss of water thru protein skimmer.? Is the water collected by the protein skimmer salt water or freshwater.? Im kinda confused of which to top-up with, whether freshwater or saltwater. Please advise. Thanks.

Rgds,

hi bro,

5gal is a really small tank. Is that a 1ft tank or a 2ft tank? In my humble opinion, you should try a bigger tank if this is your first setup. Reason is the bigger the volume of water, the more room for mistakes.....such as fish death, water conditions, ammonia spike etc.

Actually the auto top up will work for any amount of water tank. Its just a device which will sense the level of your tank water. The moment it drops due to evaporation (or even taking rocks out) it will activate the pump(located in another fresh water container of your choice) connected to it and water will automatically flow into your tank.

This allows you to place as many fans you want to cool your tank plus it allows you to go for days without having to actually be there to top up any fresh water. But I would recommend to use as big a freshwater container as possible. Not only do you not have to keep pouring freshwater into the container but it will last longer. And a bigger container can be used to 'prefilter' the freshwater by additions of seachem prime or antichlorine or using a carbon bag to absorb metals or toxic traces in the freshwater.

Evaporation looses fresh water. But the salt remains in the tank so salinity(gets more salty) increases. Hence there is a need to top up fresh water.

Skimmate from skimmer is salt water with all the yucky stuff skimmed out from the tank. Removal of skimmate removes salt water but very slowly and hence occasionally you need to monitor your salinity levels and add additional salt into some fresh water before adding to your main tank. But you should not use a auto top up for this purpose.

Auto top up is only meant for replacing evaporated water from your tank. And the kalk reactor is a further enhancement to make adding kalkwasser alot easier.

Auto top up device alone is $120. Kalk reactor is $150. If you get both, its $250.

Cheers

[Achilles Tang]

Two questions:

1. For those who want a saturated kalk solution and have PH lowered at same time... we use vinegar... where and how do we dose vinegar in this system?

2. Is the pump for the kalk reactor constantly running? Or switched on only when the float switch is activated at the same time water is mixed in?

[Joe_P]

Two questions:

1. For those who want a saturated kalk solution and have PH lowered at same time... we use vinegar... where and how do we dose vinegar in this system?

2. Is the pump for the kalk reactor constantly running? Or switched on only when the float switch is activated at the same time water is mixed in?

Cookie has answered the 2nd question ....).

As you can see in the photos, the white milky part is caused by the external pump stirring up the kalk every 45mins (set by your own timer). There is no need to worry about the kalk turning the whole tank milky because as you can see even when the pump is activated, the mixing only occurs on the bottom half. This not only ensures a concentrated kalk solution but it is also free from kalk precipitate.

Is it really possible to add vinegar to the Kalk Reactor....

Isn't it difficult to determine the amount of vinegar to administer to the Kalk in the reactor to get the proportion for dosing???l

[Cookiemunster]

Cookie has answered the 2nd question ....).

Is it really possible to add vinegar to the Kalk Reactor....

Isn't it difficult to determine the amount of vinegar to administer to the Kalk in the reactor to get the proportion for dosing???l

Thanks for the support guys. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

1. I will not pretend I know about vinegar usage as I have never tried it before. So I really have no idea how you can add vinegar to the reactor and yet control it. However, since kalk is dumped into the reactor, I assume vinegar can be too as it will be diluted with water which is then forced out to drip in the main tank. After discussing with alvy, we feel it is alot safer to have a g-clamp to control the flow rate into the tank. As every tank is different in rate of evaporation, for some reason some tank may be super fast and as a result replacing evaporated water with kalk solution may be too dramatic and cause a super raise in pH. So he has decided to implement a g-clamp. But as to adding vinegar, I think its entirely at your own risk and experience cos I have no idea how it can be controlled or even what is the right amount.

But I am thinking, even if I am using chiller, I will want my water to evaporate faster now since I have this setup so more kalk solution can be added. And the benefit is that I can do that using fans. Meaning my tank temp will not raise so much ===> great savings in chiller efficiency. WOW

2. Yup as Joe_p pointed out, its in the essays above. hehehe but to save you the trouble.......a timer has to be connected to the external pump of the reactor and set to activate every 45 mins or so to allow stirring of the kalk.

[Cookiemunster]

Ok for those who pmed me regarding the dimensions. Here are the precise dimensions.

The dimensions of the auto top up box are

12cm(breadth) x 20cm(length) x 6 cm (height). But add another 6 cm (total 18cm breadth) for pump 2 pin plugs which is plugged to the top up device.

The kalk reactor is:

74cm height (inclusive allowance for hoses on top), 13cm diameter. Base area inclusive of pump is 20cm x 13cm. However, height can be varied depending on your requirement.

An additional word of caution, I've received many pm regarding how you can place the top up device hidden near the sump or on the sump itself. Please becareful as all electrical devices is strongly not advised to be placed near water splashes or where it can have the tendency to drop into the tank itself. Please anticipate situations where accidents can occur such as pump connection broken loose splashing water everywhere, sump overflows, possible drops into the tank.

The 2 float switches are built with 2 metres of cable to allow you to place the top up device as far away from the tank as possible.

[Cookiemunster]

Ladies and gentlemen,

after much discussion with Alvy, we realised that the kalk reactor requires us to deliver and install it simply because it is not as simple to setup. Especially for those who are not good with plumbing stuff and fittings.

And as a result, in order to cover Alvy's cost and time, it has been decided that the kalk reactor price has to be increased to $180. This new price includes delivery and installation and a SICCE IRDA external pump for kalk circulation.

To keep it short,

Auto top up price: $120 (no change)

Kalk reactor : $180 (increase $30 but now using SICCE IRDA+installation)

Package price: $280 (increase $30 but now using SICCE IRDA+installation)

There will not be any installation for auto top up device as it is a very simple device and profit margin is very low.

However, the kalk reactor and combo package will include delivery and installation and a SICCE IRDA external pump for the kalk reactor.

I sincerely apologise for this price increase but we have no choice and this really is the best we can do as installation and delivery as well as SICCE IRDA is now included.

[SpiderOne]

iou eamnea IDRA

[Cookiemunster]

iou eamnea IDRA

Huh? Bro can speak english or not?

[Achilles Tang]

Can the kalk reactor come with a flat PVC base? It look's rather unstable... i don't want my maid to knock it down with a mop or by my dog playing around.

[alvy]

Sure it can, but cost will escalate by some amount (there is this wrong concept tt pvc board is much cheaper than acrylic ones, check with HC!!) ! i was looking into it, but then i want to keep things at the bare minimum cost so tt the unit is priced optimumly for you and me. Since the unit does stand properly when filled with water and there is a pump to lower its CG, i figured it will be safe in one's cabinet, unless you position it where the tendency to knock it down is higher (just like you won't put a wine bottle on the floor so tt someone can kick it!)!!! if you are still wary of incidents to happen, you can apply pvc glue or super glue at the base and glue it to any plastic base boards for added stability!

[Achilles Tang]

Roger that! Looking forward to another Alvy creation for my tank!

[reefplicate]

thats a great DIY product u have there and i'm sure it'll get the job done.

i was just wondering.... this system looks really huge N i don't think u can fit all those stuff into your cabinet right?? so i suppose everything must be placed outside or beside the tank right?? won't it look out of place in a home with nice furniture N if u have kids, won't it seem a little dangerouse to have something like that lying ARD???

no offence dude

[Cookiemunster]

Thanks bro,

but seriously when you have kids running around, everything is a potential danger.

Especially that nicely decorated top of the end fish tank with nice cabinet. Nothing is safe from a kid's hands. Your water pumps, chiller, lights, chairs where they can climb to take a look from the top, electrical wirings, cabinet corners and edges, etc etc.

There are a million things to becareful of when there are kids around. Those with kids will surely agree. I mean even a wall socket is a danger as they can be tempted to poke something into it.

And yes it is a big setup. Especially with the kalk reactor and container of freshwater. But I manage to keep most of it except the reactor in my cabinet. Then again I arrange my tank in an unobtrusive area where people do not walk into it. So its safe. Its really all about planning and layout. For those who have a calcium reactor with a CO2 cylinder its even worse. And believe it or not, I have both a calcium reactor with CO2 and a alvy kalk reactor. But they are neatly tucked away beside my tank.

Being a parent, one has to be responsible to plan for accidents as best you can. And having a fish tank in the house is a real risk too. Hence always try to anticipate what can go wrong.

I'm not married yet but I can already anticipate all the dangers of having a kid running around in the house. Actually the tank is the least of my worries. Its the windows and kitchen and toilets that are danger zones. Anyway we are

[alvy]

the autotopup is a small device which you can fit into ur cabinet. the kalkr is a tall and narry device, around 2.5ft high (clear pvc tube 2 fit long)! It can be shortened but i found most design online having a 2ft tube for 'safer' mixing of the kalk! depending on high low you want it o be, it's just a matter of triming the tube.

for those who are waiting for the reactor, i'm so sorry you have to wait so long for it, as I'm so tied up with work (work till 4-5am everyday) tt i can't even go get things done!! i need a few more days before i'm free from work commitments!

[reefplicate]

theres a solution to solve all u ppl worrys. this friend of my suggested to make a smaller cabinet to place beside his tank so that everything can fit right in there N so don't have to worry about unsightly eqiupment lying ARd. there'll be some major drilling N cutting of the fish tank cabinet to get all that plumbing across to the smaller cabinet.

i think thats a wonderful idea he came up with....CHEERS !!!! >>JOVI<<