Any Comments?

spawns · January 12, 2005

Look at the **bright** side, at least he dont need to switch on xtra light to light up his room.... :lol:

ya man, too overkill... :rolleyes:

malcolm · January 12, 2005

Well i only intend to keep soft corals and anemones for the moment. My temp remains at 28 C without any fans and the MH being on from 12pm to 7pm. I understand that you all feel that I am going overboard but it is an experiment. I am going to get a 3ft tank with sump once I get a job. I am doing all this for the future. I just graduated and don't have a steady income. $100 for a 150 watt is damn damn worth it. Right now it is 10 watts per gallon and by raising the light I don't believe that I will lose too much intensity. The sun is very high in the sky. :lol: No need to put the sun 8 inches above the sea right? And even so, with my 3 inch deep sand, my tank is only slightly over a foot deep. Heat is not an issue. My house is very windy. And I do have a floating thermometer which reads the same as my digital without the decimal point. I want to do my tank right from the start and for all you T5 fans, stick to your T5's. I am a MH head so you do it your way and I will do it mine. Anybody who has been to ###### LFS, will notice that their SPS are at least 3-4 feet below the MH and are growing very quickly + there is NO CHILLER. I understand your concerns and all but if my corals and anemone don't open then I will lower it until they do. This thread will continue even after my tank is set up and I will post pics regularly for you guys to see. IT IS AN EXPERIMENT. The guy who tells you to mount MH 8 inches above the water has a chiller, or wants to sell you one

Not bright enuff meh? :yeah:

HypoC · January 12, 2005

Er, sorrie maybe i shouldn't comment too much about the technicalities cos I'm a newbie here heh :unsure: but I think there's nothing wrong with experimenting. New things are discovered by people who dare to be different. So i say Kudos to Malcolm for the spirit Maybe he'll discover sth we can use next time? And it is clear he has his reasons for doing so, he has done his research so I say let's not be so negative ya. All the best Malcolm! Haha I'm Kenneth if u still rem me ^_^

jc85 · January 13, 2005

A simple way to test if distance of the lights make any difference can be done using a lux meter. No need to conduct any experiement, imho.

diabolus · January 13, 2005

Anybody who has been to ###### LFS, will notice that their SPS are at least 3-4 feet below the MH and are growing very quickly + there is NO CHILLER.

yupz...they dun need chiller and SPS and LPS open until very nice.

but how much water are they using compared to yours?

nobody determines whether the light we are using is enough by using the Watts/Gallon formula. if dats the case,if i used 10 tubes of FL lights for a tank with 2ft depth, will be similar to using 1 x 400w MH?

no right?

malcolm · January 13, 2005

Hi Kenneth! Of course I remember you. Thanks for the support. You know where I can get electric blue hermit crabs? You are keeping crabs right? What kind? Any shops to recommend to me?

Haha someone mentioned a lux meter. Now I will ask who has a lux meter in their house! I will pay $ 10 to borrow it :evil: just for 5 minutes only, lend me leh :snore:

I am doing an experiment guys, please be constructive. I know you are all experts and have beautiful nano reefs.

Let me say this, if my tank is unable to support my anemone and softies by mounting my MH so high, I will give it all away for free! Ok?

Who is interested? Add your reply here. 1st come 1st serve. But of course you will have to wait for my tank to cycle and all my inhabitants which I have not yet bought to die off! :yeah:

jc85 · January 13, 2005

Haha someone mentioned a lux meter. Now I will ask who has a lux meter in their house! I will pay $ 10 to borrow it just for 5 minutes only, lend me leh

Someone here defintely have it...... Juz it case u're not aware, it can be purchase off amazon too. :pinch:

Anyway, seems like you are not accepting opinions or even comments. Shall not make things worst.

Good luck enjoy reefing.

Cheers

diabolus · January 13, 2005

Well, nothing much to say anyway....

we'll wait for your results in anticipation then! :evil:

:lol:

HypoC · January 14, 2005

Hey haha yup I'm keeping crabs and redclaw crayfish too I got nice hermit crabs from aquamarin. You can try them but not sure if they still have stock though :erm: All da best!

tazzzz · January 14, 2005

the advice from the bros here r for ur own gd actualli, whether u choose to listen or not, it's all up to u..

there's no need to get so agitated n being sarcastic...

juz hope u won't learn things the hard way n waste the lives of the LS wif ur so called experiment.. after they they oso r living things...

Terryz_ · January 14, 2005

Eric · January 21, 2005

Hi Kenneth! Of course I remember you. Thanks for the support. You know where I can get electric blue hermit crabs? You are keeping crabs right? What kind? Any shops to recommend to me?

Haha someone mentioned a lux meter. Now I will ask who has a lux meter in their house! I will pay $ 10 to borrow it just for 5 minutes only, lend me leh

I am doing an experiment guys, please be constructive. I know you are all experts and have beautiful nano reefs.

Let me say this, if my tank is unable to support my anemone and softies by mounting my MH so high, I will give it all away for free! Ok?

Who is interested? Add your reply here. 1st come 1st serve. But of course you will have to wait for my tank to cycle and all my inhabitants which I have not yet bought to die off!

Do you enjoy wearing your sunglasses while viewing your tank? To be honest, 4 x T5 or 2 x PL will be more than sufficent for your 2ft tank.

Eric

malcolm · January 25, 2005

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/atj/index.htm

Go check out this article. READ IT CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU TRY AND TELL ME THAT I CANNOT MOUNT MY MH TOO HIGH.

Doubling the distance reduces intensity by 25%.......so it is still very effective for a 2 footer. I am only lighting a small area.

Read it and weep! I just think it is very stupid to buy 6 t5 bulbd for 1 tank. Might as well keep 6 freshwater tanks. 1 MH will be easier to maintain. Gives your tank the strobe effect similar to the SUN's effect on the reef and gives you access to your tank without having to remove the lighting.

I mentioned the lighting at ####### reef before and someone replied asking me how much water I have. Lighting is related to surface area and depth. Not volume of water. 1 MH for 24 inches of tank length is the standard. Water volume is only an issue for stability, not light efficiency. Watts per gallon is only a rule of thumb and is often exceeded with good results. I have 10 watts per gallon, no heat issues without any form of chiller.

To be successful, try new things. The same formula doesn't always work if different people use it. Experimentation will lead to advancement of this relatively new hobby. And go to the above mentioned LFS before you comment.

deityhack · January 25, 2005

Used to have MH for my 2.5ft, running on 2 fans, maintaining temp ard 28deg. Topping up water using tubby. Basically, it's quite maintanence-free. Now using T5, intesity is of course not so strong, worry abt bulb replacement, taking up more space but less heat. T5 can be quite hot too.

IMHO, if possible, I prefer MH to T5 as more maintenance free. But alas, if anyone want to buy my T5,..............PM me.

Malcolm, if possible, you can add a cupboard to shield yourself from the spread of MH when viewing your tank. The higher your mh, the bigger spread will be.

Just my 2 cts.

35Cents · January 25, 2005

Dude... :off: from your tank. Some read for you:

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25251

Now you know why its censored....can't believe you are so determined to spell it out...

diabolus · January 25, 2005

Read it and weep! I just think it is very stupid to buy 6 t5 bulbd for 1 tank. Might as well keep 6 freshwater tanks. 1 MH will be easier to maintain. Gives your tank the strobe effect similar to the SUN's effect on the reef and gives you access to your tank without having to remove the lighting.

i also think that its 'not clever'(i'm being polite here) that someone is using a 250w MH for a 2 ft tank. if you want easy access to your tank, then might as well hang your MH on the ceiling, then you can use it to illuminate your home too.

mentioned the lighting at ######## reef before and someone replied asking me how much water I have. Lighting is related to surface area and depth. Not volume of water. 1 MH for 24 inches of tank length is the standard. Water volume is only an issue for stability, not light efficiency. Watts per gallon is only a rule of thumb and is often exceeded with good results. I have 10 watts per gallon, no heat issues without any form of chiller.

When i ask how much water you have, i'm talking about the temperature of your tank, with the huge amount of water and the large surface area that LFS has, no problem with heat issue.

To be successful, try new things. The same formula doesn't always work if different people use it. Experimentation will lead to advancement of this relatively new hobby. And go to the above mentioned LFS before you comment

.

you are self contradicting. i quote you : 1 MH for 24 inches of tank length is the standard. Water volume is only an issue for stability, not light efficiency. Watts per gallon is only a rule of thumb and is often exceeded with good results. I have 10 watts per gallon, no heat issues without any form of chiller. so wat about all the bullshit you mentioned about experimenting?

anyway, i rest my case....we'll see how well done your fishes will be steamed under ur MH.

maybe you might not need to cook dinner when you come home one day.

southpaw23 · January 26, 2005

For all the non believers....here's a guy with a 20 gallon tank and 400watts of MH sitting right on top of it.....

http://www.lunchbucket.org/20H%20main%20page.htm

I personally think that there's nothing wrong with Malcoms idea of using the 150w MH over his two feet tank. He has kept his temperature under control and sounds knowlegable enough to know when something is about to go wrong etc...u guys just can't be too narrow minded into thinking that T5s are the ultimate way around setting up a reef tank or nano reef tanks for the matter....

the beauty about reefing is that conventional rules doesn't always apply as given time and experience, these rules change...look at nano reefing for instance, a while back, ya'll used to think that it was not advisable for a new person to set up a tank any smaller than 3 feet saying that it's not easy and that bigger is better but i don't find that to be the case at all, i've maintained nano reefs from the start and haven't even ventured into larger tanks but to be honest, it wasn't that hard for me to set up my nano...some of the conventional rules didn't need to be applied to a nano as it normally would on ur regular tanks...for instance, i had my tank running for over a year without even a protein skimmer but it worked out fine.

I apologize for babbling but my point is simply to not be so quick to rule out what may seem like unconventional methods or setting up and running a tank....as for the whole issue of too much light over a tank...check out nano-reef.com and you'll see a lot of setups with overkill lighting but they all seem to be doing fine...at the end of the day, there really isn't such a thing as too much lighting...but there is a problem with too little lighting and that seems to be more of an issue here in this forum at times.....

Anyways....another apology if i've managed to step on toes or offended anyone....that's just my two cents....and to Malcom...good luck on ur setup...i was actually considering setting up the similar lighting setup but eventually decided against it simply cos i wasn't willing to hang the pendant on the ceiling and didn't wanna deal with too much heat and evap issues if i were to built it into a hood.....but also in saying that, i still believe it'll work out great for you....all the best....

southpaw23 · January 26, 2005

oh and about the distance of the MH from the tank.....i see no real issue with that either as even at reduced intensity....the lighting from the MH would still be far greater than say a couple of T5 bulbs....and besides.....buying these lighting would easily allow for an upgrade in the future as opposed to having to buy a whole new set of lights when the upgrade bug hits......

cheers....

diabolus · January 26, 2005

for the record, i dun use T5.

and he's using a 250w.

we are not narrow minded. we dun advocate MH or T5 as a must use. Most reefers that responded to this thread has the intention of advising him thru our own experiences about the downside of using such a powerful light for his 2 ft tank. did you read his response to all these advises. talk about being cocky and arrogant.

you cannot compare to other countries where they need to use a heater most parts of the year.

enough said.

<_<

southpaw23 · January 26, 2005

Point taken diabolus....and for the record i'm not siding with Malcom per say....but just advocating the fact that the lighting is possible...true, i may have been too strong on my statement of accusing ya'll as being narrow minded and i apologize and take that back. as for him being cocky and arrogant...i do agree that i do sense that in his responses throughout this thread but to be fair don't u think that some of ur responses have been sarcastic as well....

If he chooses to be stubborn about the advices given, then so be it...it's unfortunately his decision but we as participants in this thread need not fuel the fire by throwing sarcastic comments back etc....and speaking of sounding cocky....i have to admit, i sense a bit of cockiness in ur last reply to me as well so how are you any better off than malcom?.....

As far as comparisons with other countries...why can't we compare? we are talkin about light intensity at the end of the day...the only variable is how we deal with the heat issue and once that is out of the way.....aren't we still on the same grounds of arguement? True, in our tropical country, there isn't a need for a heater and chillers are commonly used....but evaporation is something that we all deal with as well....altho it's understandable that we would face a more rapid rate of evaporation being in our climate etc....so i still don't see your point in your statement about not being able to compare....

diabolus · January 26, 2005

no issues bro...

if he wants to do it his way, im fine with it...at the end of the day...its not my tank/electricity bills/dead fishes etc etc.

The reason im saying theres no comparison between our humid weather and those over at the US of A is the average temp.

for us, we are averaging about 28dc without the chiller...over there,say about 15 to 20dc?

factor in the MH, not much difference to them,but a hell lot of difference to us.

evaporation drops when the water is colder,therefore we will face a higher rate of evaporation rate than them.

kee · January 26, 2005

malcom, the mh its better to change to T5. although its just FL but u can see the different. MH is really too hot.. i used 150w for my 2ft x 1.5 which is higher then ur.. the water temp shoot up to 32.. so hot.. and u got no sump.. no proper filtration.. the hanging filter will not be enough.. just a comments. the light is also placed too high.. it wun help also.. when you are scaping ur fishtank.. u will feel the heat! haha

malcolm · January 27, 2005

Wow, I never imagined that I would start a debate here.

I'm really sorry if I have upset anyone.

My temperature is fine. My room is not hot as it is very windy on the top floor which I live.

150 watt DE 17,000k bulb.

Eheim 2213 with surface skimmer.

No Corals. Only Live Rock.

1 Golden Maroon Clown.

3 inches of Philipine Sand

No Protein Skimmer being used although I have 3.

No intentions of more fish. Just Shrimp and Snails, maybe a hermit or 2.

In my cannister I am using de*Nitrate, coral chips, Carbon and poly filter.

I intend to keep my tank with these specs until I upgrade to a new tank with a built in overflow, chiller etc. I do not know how big my tank will be and the MH is an investment. I think many reefers will understand my feelings when I mention that this is my 3rd tank and I habe 3 sets of lights that I cannot use anymore. 3 skimmers that are not rated for my tank or dont skim effectively enough etc etc. It's not all wasted money. To me it was a learning experience that I am trying to share with fellow reefers. I want you to think out what your goals are before setting up a new tank or your first tank. I want you guys to read widely and open your minds to new ideas.

I am not trying to be sarcastic but I am defending my own personal views. Just like how some people like fat women and some like skinny women. To each, the fat one or the skinny one could be their dream girl or nightmare. I know when I get itchy for a new tank and see 1 that is suitable, I will surely jump for it. But how many reefers will say " If i change tank, I need to buy new lights, and filter and chiller" and the list goes on. I am sick of paying premium prices for lighting and equipment only to have it become worthless the moment I bring it home or upgrade to a new tank. SICK! So from now on, I am only investing the money which I save from working (part time since I graduated) into equipment that will last throughout my interest in this wonderful hobby.

I would like to dedicate a small part of this to T5 users. Please do not listen to me. I am a guy who prefers MH. I used to drive a Nissan S13 in Perth. I hate Hondas. I am also a Nissan guy as you can see. It is my opinion and nothing more, so do not think I am attacking you or condemning your tank. For all you know, you're tanks will be more beautiful then mine. So what I am trying to deliver here is that this hobby is unique. It is very delicate and needs more experience in order to prevent loss of life in our tanks. I love animals and I was sad when I threw 3 hitchhiker crabs from my tank into the sea. I wondered if they would die or be eaten. T5 is a great bulb. Really great. I just like MH and it is working for me. Just like I'm sure a Honda would get me to work just as well as a Nissan. Don't hate me for what I believe in. I started this thread with the intention of possibly coming up with a feasible soulution fo you fellow reefers. Why DIY your own lights and risk fire and your life just to save money on the cost of T5's. I have seen some people wire up 8 bulbs just to get the right wattage for their needs. If my car was too slow, I would increase the boost, not put 7 more engines.

To copepod, I sincerely thank you for your effort in replying to this thread. I was truly surprised to have some positive feedback. I admit I was sarcastic in many of my posts but I did not intend for it to be degrading or cause hurt. I will change and refrain from doing so in future. :angel: I also wish you sucess in your reefing and wish you a prosperous Chinese New Year. If you are Chinese lah!

SO PEACE TO ALL THE MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM!!!! :bow: Please accept my apology for being rude and rubbing you guys the wrong way. I will post some pics of my tank equipment and setup tomorrow. Now my pet maroon is sleeping so I dun wanna wake him up with the flash!

diabolus · January 27, 2005

chill bro...

all is fine.

like you i'm a MH user, and either MH or T5, as long as it does the job well...its good lighting.

btu i still think its going to be very bright! :lol:

southpaw23 · January 28, 2005

no issues bro...

if he wants to do it his way, im fine with it...at the end of the day...its not my tank/electricity bills/dead fishes etc etc.

The reason im saying theres no comparison between our humid weather and those over at the US of A is the average temp.

for us, we are averaging about 28dc without the chiller...over there,say about 15 to 20dc?

factor in the MH, not much difference to them,but a hell lot of difference to us.

evaporation drops when the water is colder,therefore we will face a higher rate of evaporation rate than them.

Good to see we have no issues diabolus...and i see ur point about the higher evaporation rate....even without the MH, fans really get the evap rate up as well...i guess i never felt that as an issue once i set up my top up unit......

And malcom...no worries....one thing about forums is that one has to be pretty careful how one writes cos u never know how it can turn out at times...i guess it's always good to qualify urself.....i personally think that it can be a pain at times..lol :lol: but it's all good...

Pics would be great....all the best in the new tank....

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