Is protein skimmer importan for FOWLR ?

[farrel]

The main purose of the skimmer is to remove protein from the water, meaning the DOM inside the water.

if you can have a huge amount of LRs,macro-algae and other forms of nutrient exports, then i believe you can do without a skimmer. Of course feeing pattern and the types and numbers of fishes plays a part as well.

yup i think you right bro...

[patrick123]

I tend to disagree. DOC is not pure ammonia which can be neutralized by the nitrogen cycle to nitrite and nitrate and nitrogen gass.

DOC also contain protein and other substances that stains or turn the water brown/yellowish. How do you remove these by LR and macro-algae? If LR and macro-algae can remove these, then you don't need carbon liao.

Protein skimmer on the other hand remove the DOC before the nitrogen cycle takes place.

[RAV-65]

Actually with so many cheap and good skimmers around, it's much more easier to keep a successful reef tank with a good skimmer, no need to stress urself out by trying to balance the tank and bioload and all that, just get a skimmer and the hobby becomes easier instantaneously...

As of we are not busy enough trying to maintain kh, ca, no3, po4, mg etc etc....

Juz my $0.02...

[diabolus]

I tend to disagree. DOC is not pure ammonia which can be neutralized by the nitrogen cycle to nitrite and nitrate and nitrogen gass.

DOC also contain protein and other substances that stains or turn the water brown/yellowish. How do you remove these by LR and macro-algae? If LR and macro-algae can remove these, then you don't need carbon liao.

Protein skimmer on the other hand remove the DOC before the nitrogen cycle takes place.

There are too much technical specs here.

all i know is dat you cannot deny the fact that besides jaubert, there are other reefers that have been successful running a very basic setup without a skimmer, but with tons of LRs.

[patrick123]

There are too much technical specs here.

all i know is dat you cannot deny the fact that besides jaubert, there are other reefers that have been successful running a very basic setup without a skimmer, but with tons of LRs.

I agree with your statement, but having tons of LR can cost more money than a simple skimmer. Especially at the way the LR is sold by kg. hehehe

[diabolus]

yes...LRs are very expensive here in SGP and States side due to CITES.

but over at Indonesia, the have abundant LRs!!!

anyway, read somewhere about a indonesia reefer running on the Jaubert system with very much success.

[Asfur]

Here is the answer from Greg, who already meet and ever saw Prof Jaubert tank :

This is what i wrote :

Asfur wrote:

Hi Mr. Greg,

This is actually are question from my friend, he is very curious why Prof Jaubert can have a tank without using a skimmer and then write an article in advance aquarist in oct 2002 if i'm not wrong. This article are makes some of reefer in indonesia want to follow this system and believe this is the most natural just like in the nature, and the best system to apply compare to other system, they want the secret behind this, do you know it, and can you explain to me?

Thank you very much.

Hengky

First of all, Jaubert doesn't have a closed system. There is a constant exchange of natural seawater. Second, the aquariums have a very light bioload of fish and corals, and open expanses of sand. There are no secrets in keeping an aquarium and many methods work. It's all about balancing the input and output of nutrients. If you maintain a light bioload and do a lot of water changes, you can probably eliminate a skimmer, but not so many people can create a situation like Jaubert.

Greg

I hope this will answer ur question.

[diabolus]

Its possible, but IMO not worth the hassle.

anyway,almost impossible to achieve it in SGP, in Indon maybe.

[patrick123]

constant exchange of seawater??? my god...you can buy a quadruple beckett for that money.

[williammuk]

Just to share, I used to maintain a fairly successful 50g reef for two years (Sep 2002 to Oct 2004) without skimmer. Livestocks include clams, LPS, softies and many fishes which I overfeed.

The filtration system comprise of 35kg of good quality LRs and a refugium. The refugium uses a mud substrate and was growing wildly with Bubble/Grape Caulerpa that I need to harvest weekly. Once in a long while, I may also put in a bag of ChemiPure, PolyFilter and/or RowaPhos. I also do weekly 15% (two big pails) water change.

I learnt that to maintain this reef successfully, it is very important to keep up the weekly water change. I do this so often that I can mix the salt and change water within 30 minutes. (No, I don't bother to let the water stabilise overnight. I just mix and change.) I'd done that for two years and it's not much fun having to slave for your hobby like that. It becomes really tiring after a while.

So now with my new 4x2x2.5 reef, I've decided to go with a skimmer, DSB and RowaPhos in FR. No refugium ... yet. It's almost two months old now and I haven't done any water change yet ... oops, I guess it's time soon.

In my opinion, I think it is better to have a skimmer in the long run. You can probably relax and enjoy your tank more instead of having to worry about the maintenance routine.

Happy reefing. Cheers.

[patrick123]

Yes, I also change water every 2-3 months. hehehe

I don't know if I can stick to the hobby for long if I have to change water every week.

[diabolus]

Just to share, I used to maintain a fairly successful 50g reef for two years (Sep 2002 to Oct 2004) without skimmer. Livestocks include clams, LPS, softies and many fishes which I overfeed.

The filtration system comprise of 35kg of good quality LRs and a refugium. The refugium uses a mud substrate and was growing wildly with Bubble/Grape Caulerpa that I need to harvest weekly. Once in a long while, I may also put in a bag of ChemiPure, PolyFilter and/or RowaPhos. I also do weekly 15% (two big pails) water change.

I learnt that to maintain this reef successfully, it is very important to keep up the weekly water change. I do this so often that I can mix the salt and change water within 30 minutes. (No, I don't bother to let the water stabilise overnight. I just mix and change.) I'd done that for two years and it's not much fun having to slave for your hobby like that. It becomes really tiring after a while.

So now with my new 4x2x2.5 reef, I've decided to go with a skimmer, DSB and RowaPhos in FR. No refugium ... yet. It's almost two months old now and I haven't done any water change yet ... oops, I guess it's time soon.

In my opinion, I think it is better to have a skimmer in the long run. You can probably relax and enjoy your tank more instead of having to worry about the maintenance routine.

Happy reefing. Cheers.

see....a very fine example of a skimmerless system!

in SGP somemore!

way to go william!but too much hardwork, better to get a skimmer.

[farrel]

as you said about LR at indonesia, indeed LR at indonesia very cheap, i buy it about more 100kg and i pay for Rp.60.000 (about S$12) and i can choose which LR i want. and sewa water is so cheap too about Rp.200/liter (S$0.04) so we can change water frequently. i saw at show tank at my LFS and they just using very cheap skimmer (just S$20) and they can keep about 30fishes for 3 years and don't get serious problem, they keep fishes from small to big size...

and its fact that make me confuse about expensive skimmer :D

[patrick123]

Wow...that is really cheap for the LR....

[diabolus]

heheh patrick...now you know lah.

dats why i said the best place to have a successful skimmerless system is at indonesia!

[williammuk]

way to go william!but too much hardwork, better to get a skimmer.

Yah lor ... that's why my new tank now got skimmer already.

[patrick123]

heheh patrick...now you know lah.

dats why i said the best place to have a successful skimmerless system is at indonesia!

True enough. I have always imagine if someone house is on the beach, he can actually run 2 piping and just pump the sea water into a marine tank and let it overflow back to the sea. This way, he doesn't even need filter not to talk about skimmer. hehehe

[minsmarine]

True enough. I have always imagine if someone house is on the beach, he can actually run 2 piping and just pump the sea water into a marine tank and let it overflow back to the sea. This way, he doesn't even need filter not to talk about skimmer. hehehe

is there any house so near to sea and get clear sea water in SG ?

may be in Thailand lar, u so much dreamming.

even if too near to beach, can't use the sea water from the beach cause it's highly acided.

if it's than..... no skimmer, no CR, no FR, no Chiller, no sump, no Refg oh my god , I can have 20' tank :}

[patrick123]

Wah...how you know I'm from Thailand? Are you the Mr Min I met?

Now a day, it is not even safe to stay near a beach or may be the whole house will become a fish tank when the Tsunami hits.

[minsmarine]

Wah...how you know I'm from Thailand? Are you the Mr Min I met?

Now a day, it is not even safe to stay near a beach or may be the whole house will become a fish tank when the Tsunami hits.

yea I was the one who get Tunze for Neo

otherwise I won't know right

and my nick said I am min lay

[patrick123]

Nice to be able to map the Avartar to the real person. Next time may be we can chong LFS together when I'm back.

[minsmarine]

Haa haa good, anyway, I spent 1 week in BKK everymonth, so we can hop around in BKK also

will ring u while I am in BKK

[patrick123]

Can. but we cannot chong LFS here lah.... price of LS too expensive and not much choice.

[farrel]

yes its soo cheap, unfortunelly cause its very cheap, some indonesian hobbies are not keep our tank seriously.... because if they die, i just buy it again with cheap price....

for LS if you in my city you can take it as much as you want...... ......

[LaW]

awwww.... how we Singaporean reef wish to do that too... just use little $$$ to buy new fishes. LS and equipments are too much of $$$ here

but to me... its never good to waste so much "lifes" in ur tank.

well... atleast, i will feel guilty.

its always a pleasure to see ur fish growing healthy with striking colours and most importantly FAT. wahahhaaa =D

well atleast that a sense of achievement for me.

happy reefing, reefer dude