Sump Design

[Norvin Ng]

Please share your thoughts on the location of the skimmer in the sump tank. I have mine in the first compartment while I saw that the drawing here is at the last compartment? You thing there's any difference? Its supposed to be skimming dissolved matter anyway.

[spade]

Please share your thoughts on the location of the skimmer in the sump tank.   I have mine in the first compartment while I saw that the drawing here is at the last compartment?  You thing there's any difference?  Its supposed to be skimming dissolved matter anyway.

Norvin

a fellow forumer highlited me that i'd skim b4 the refugium, as the the refugium may produce some beneficial organism such as the pod. so if u skim after the refugium, the organism may get skimmed out as well.

so my design need further correction to cater for this.

[kelstorm]

errr.. shouldn't the skimmer be before the refugium??

[spade]

my revised sump layout, the sump is 36in(L) x 24(w) x 20(h). would like to hear some advise whether this will work

Explanation

a. Water from main tank come in (12x10 column), this column will fill with filter wool and bioballs

b. water underflow from a over here and more bioballs (12x10)

c. water overflow thru a 2in (h) opening from b to c (12x10). this column will hv the chemical stuff eg gac

d. water underflow from c to here, the skimmer chamber

e. water underflow from d thru opening (2.5x10) into here, the refugium

f. water from refugium will overflow into f (3x6 opening)

i. water pump back to main tank

also tempted to fill the column a,b and c with sulfur beads and Calcium carbonate as describedhere http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USA...tionSoufre.html

[spade]

sorry, wrong dimension. the column a,b and c should be 6x12 instead of 10x12

[spade]

Juz got my sump in on Sat..

[Tanzy]

That is not a sump! That's an apartment block!

[mv3i]

looks like lego

how you planning to put in the gadgets ??

[ep4546]

your sump look complicate shouldn't a sump be as simple as possible wat is important is the bio load of your filter rite??

[Cedric]

Wow!!! quite cool looking!

I was wondering...

1. Will your filter floss in A float? (Bio-balls too!) Because the water level in B will be higher as the overflow from B to C is higher. Hence the water level in A and B is determined by the height of the overflow between B to C.

2. I think your bio-balls in B will try to float as it is submerged in water. I think bio-balls should be exposed to air to allow for maximum aerobic denitrification.

3. The water flow from skimmer compartment D to refugium compartment E to F Maybe too fast. What I mean is that the water may tend to go directly from compartment D to F with very little mixing of water in the refugium.

4. Wondering what kind of skimmer you intend to get? Depending on what you intend to put in compartment F, you may get micro bubbles back into your main tank as you do not hav baffles...

The above points is what I interpret from the diagram and pics. I may have totally misinterpreted the setup and I may be wrong. Just my 0.2cts, hope you do not get offended. Overall, I think its way cool!

[Phang]

Hmmm.... Which compartment for the refugium???

BTW, your sump,looks really cool and complicated.... very nice.....

Believe that your skimmer compartment would be before the refugium... right... then shouldn't have micro bubbles into your mains....

[spade]

Wow!!! quite cool looking!

I was wondering...

1. Will your filter floss in A float? (Bio-balls too!) Because the water level in B will be higher as the overflow from B to C is higher. Hence the water level in A and B is determined by the height of the overflow between B to C.

2. I think your bio-balls in B will try to float as it is submerged in water. I think bio-balls should be exposed to air to allow for maximum aerobic denitrification.

3. The water flow from skimmer compartment D to refugium compartment E to F Maybe too fast. What I mean is that the water may tend to go directly from compartment D to F with very little mixing of water in the refugium.

4. Wondering what kind of skimmer you intend to get? Depending on what you intend to put in compartment F, you may get micro bubbles back into your main tank as you do not hav baffles...

The above points is what I interpret from the diagram and pics. I may have totally misinterpreted the setup and I may be wrong. Just my 0.2cts, hope you do not get offended. Overall, I think its way cool!

Cedric,

thanks for the comments.

for pts 1 and 2, u r right that the bioball may float due to the water level, which further due to the high overflow i'm now thinking of using a mixture of #1 and #3 sands to replace the bioballs, or the bioballs will be at the lower compartment which the eggcrate and the sand above will prevent them from floating over. Each ABC chambers is further separated by a 4in, 4in and 8in smaller compartments divided using eggcrate. very complicated ..... my worries now is that the sand will further reduce the flow rate and i will not hv the desired turnover. Further more i think no3 is a bigger problem for me, as i would tend to overload ... i wish to create more anarobic env as possible

pts 3. it will hv little mixing with the refugium as the refugium will hv a 4in sand bed, i can't force the water to go from below (underflow) sandstorm will form. so will use the refugium as frag tank (as with Phang, hopefully as gd )

pts 4. I'm currently using a Macro ASF-400, will DIY a Beckett later cos the ASF-400 is too small for my new 4ft, still sourcing for stuff though. the water from the skimmer outlet is downward and the water is overflow to the next chamber, there "should" not be any micro bubbles... (praying)

I shall name this sump as "LEGO apartment", will lego sue me for this ???

comments are welcomed!

[dodo]

can someone please tell me wat's a refugium?

[Phang]

Dodo,

Here's a previous thread with information inclusive of pictures that will be helpful...

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forums/index.php...53925719e7ad525

[KingFish]

A Refugium is a separate tank or container attached to your main tank that has a source of light and slower water flow and is a safe haven for lots of critters that reproduce and add greater biodiversity and natural live food to your display tank.

A Refugium may be lit at opposite times from your display tank or 24 hours a day. If space allows, a large Refugium well lit when your tank lights are off, or 24 hours a day, will provide your entire system with amazingly stable and healthy water conditions plus supply your fish and corals with a new dimension of diversity and nutrition.

Refugia are interesting systems in their own right and a glass or acrylic tank will serve you well and provide hours of fascinating enjoyment!

- Dr. Mac

http://www.rmgconstruction.com/refugium.htm

[dodo]

10Q for the replies....but i thk Westerners methods of maintaining a marine tank cannot be followed right from the start to the end...does anyone have tried out this method b4 and are completely satisfied with what it is suppose to do?????

spade...maybe you would like to share your view on this. BTW where you get your sump tank make?maybe i need to try this method out...and how much does it cost?

[spade]

dodo,

Rumor's posting more or less summarised my view on the refugium. A sump could be very interesting place, some local favor such as Phang's and AT's

the thread in Phang's posting got a more detailed explanation, so i'm not gonna repeat here. BTW, i got my sump idea from Phang. His sump is the mother of complication and the display in the refugium is more beautiful than my main tank

[Achilles Tang]

Uhhh.. I have not posted any thing about my sump... it's just a sump, a place to collect the overflow water and for my equipment like pumps and protein skimmer to be in.

What you see is my refugium.

May I also add that for a refugium, it should be a macroalgae tank, preferably without any livestock that will prey on the pods and worms. So as the name implies, it is a place of refuge for the micro fauna to grow and produce micro zooplankton and plankton to feed your main tank.

The refugium is also a filtration system - mostly natural and biological.

As for Phang's refugium, it is like a mini coral tank...

My refugium has a seahorse & some razorfishes.... so technically, it is no longer a refugium.

[spade]

Uhhh.. I have not posted any thing about my sump... it's just a sump, a place to collect the overflow water and for my equipment like pumps and protein skimmer to be in.

What you see is my refugium.

oh no... i'm imaginating things.... where's my medication ...

[eprouve]

Hi all, while we're on the topic of sump design (Sorry to be hijacking, but I don't think its a good idea to start a whole new thread with the same topic), I was thinking of getting a new 2 ft tank and converting my existing 2 X 1 X 1 into a sump/refugium.

Due to the constraints of my room size and built in furniture, I cannot get a bigger tank and the final position of the sump/refugium will be a little higher than the main tank. They will, however be side by side.

I am currently in the process of thinking out a design of my sump/refugium so as to maximise space and achieve the best effect of having a sump.

I am stuck with some questions which I hope you can answer:

1. What is the minimum depth of DSB be to be still efficient? 4 inches? or less? The tank is only 1 foot tall (12 inches) so if I use 4.5 inches, the refugium is only 7.5 inches deep. Is there any problems with this?

2. I was told by someone at New Trio Fisheries that ONLY wet/dry bioballs are necessary in a sump filtration. Is this true?

2b. If no, what are the absolute necessary filter media? Carbon? Ceramic Rings? Cotton Filter? Coarse Filter?

2c. Is there a minimum/maximum amout of each media required per gallon of water?

3. Is it more expensive (and practical) to drill in the existing tank to create an external overflow box for water to flow back into the main tank OR to use an external pump? (Taking into consideration that water from the main tank is PUMPED into the sump).

[Tanzy]

1) Depends on how fine the sand is. DSB can be acheived in sugar size sand in under 4" but for size #1, preferably 6". The height of the sand is more crucial than the depth and volume of water. The water aboce the sand doesn't contribute to the working of the DSB as long as there is a good current over the top.

2) You don't need anything in the sump if you want to. Just leave it empty. Bioballs are not necessary for a well managed tank that is not overstocked. The bacteria in the sandbed and LR can handle all the nitrification. A reef tank has no lack of surface area as previously hyped. Bioballs are redundant.

2b) Nothing. Filter wool if you want to have some mechanical filtration but it must be cleaned regularly. Carbon if you desire.

2c) No, not really. Follow manufacturer instructions in the case of carbon or phosphate absorbers.

3) A gravity fed overflow is highly desirable. A system with two opposing pumps will be doomed to fail. If any of the the pumps get clogged or have a decreased flow rate (which eventually WILL happen), you are either going to get an empty sump or empty main tank with a flooded house. Always use only pumps on one side and gravity on the other. If main tank is fed by return pump from sump, sump should be fed by gravity from main tank and vice versa.

[eprouve]

Oh so no bioballs also can? Hmmm... ok are phosphate absorbers expensive? Do they require regular maintainece like filter wool?

Anyhow, here's my design with bioballs in mind. Tell me what you guys think. The right side a little chopped off due to attachment size constraints... but not very important. Right side quite straightforward.

Tanzy, you mentioned having good circulation over the top in the refugium? So would adding a small 240 l/h powerhead in it help?

Also, what should go into the refugium other than the sand to encourage the growth of micros...?

[Phang]

Oh so no bioballs also can? Hmmm... ok are phosphate absorbers expensive? Do they require regular maintainece like filter wool?

Anyhow, here's my design with bioballs in mind. Tell me what you guys think. The right side a little chopped off due to attachment size constraints... but not very important. Right side quite straightforward.

Tanzy, you mentioned having good circulation over the top in the refugium? So would adding a small 240 l/h powerhead in it help?

Also, what should go into the refugium other than the sand to encourage the growth of micros...?

Clarence,

Prosphate and nitrates should be well taken care of if you have a refugium....

And I think that if your water flow from mains into sump is large enough, you should have good water movement thru the top of your refugium...

If you are adding macroalgae into your refugium, you should have plenty of those micros very soon... another alternative is to seed your SB with some establish sand from a fellow reefer....

BTW, from the looks of your design, your sump should be above your mains...right???

Nice, systematic drawing.....

[Tanzy]

Since Phang has already answered most of your question, then no need to repeat the same thing.

Are phosphate absorbers expensive? How rich are you? Do you drive a Bentley? If you do, then they are cheap. About $60 for a big bottle. No maintenance required, you throw them away after they are spent.

[eprouve]

How rich am I? LOL! I am a fresh grad, unemployed and do not drive anything except my parents up the wall with the start of my marine tank. <_