To Use Bio-ball Or No Bio-balls

[jsoon]

This has been troubling me for some time. I used to put bio-balls into my overflow box and sump tank as I use to read that bio-balls are effective tools to create a trickling effect allow more oxygen to interact with the water.

However, some folks tells me that it effectiveness is also its weakness as it create more nitrate. IS THIS TRUE ????

So far, I'd visited a few LFS and each employs different filteration system. PR uses trickle without bio-balls, ML uses DSB, LCK uses spray-bars, HMA uses UV, Haw** Marine uses bio-balls.

TO BIO-BALLS or not BIO-BALLS ???? THAT IS THE QUESTION !!!

[Achilles Tang]

If you want to install a wet/dry trickle filter, the end result is quick reduction of ammonia and nitrites to nitrates and then.... Full Stop.

For a FO tank, a wet/dry is probably the only way to cope with increased wastes produced by fishes (esp. predatory ones). Nitrates are still less toxic than NO2 and Ammonia and fish can tolerate nitrates to a higher degree.

Reef inverts and corals do not like ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.

For a reef tank, with reliance on a DSB and ample LR, biological filtration is effective enough to reduce nitrates over time.

But because the natural reduction of nitrates by a DSB/LR may be slower than than how fast nitrates are produced by a wet/dry filter system, it may build up to a critical stage where the system will be unable to cope fast fast and thus negatively affect your livestock.

I used to install a wet/dry in my old tank and found that it took close to a year before my system could mature enough to reduce nitrates to tolerable levels naturally. Before that, I wasted a lot of money on nitrate-reducing stuff (newbie mistake).

I think some LFS copy cat each other without knowing the theory. I believe most of them use bioballs to break down the waste from their fish holding tanks, have anyone measured the nitrates from the water from the LFS?

You have to evaluate your own system... for overstocked/FO systems, a wet/dry system is probably good but you still have to find a way to deal with nitrates.

A properly setup system to deal with nitrates naturally is the DSB method. You may like to check it out more before deciding.

[jsoon]

If you want to install a wet/dry trickle filter, the end result is quick reduction of ammonia and nitrites to nitrates and then.... Full Stop.

For a FO tank, a wet/dry is probably the only way to cope with increased wastes produced by fishes (esp. predatory ones). Nitrates are still less toxic than NO2 and Ammonia and fish can tolerate nitrates to a higher degree.

Reef inverts and corals do not like ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.

For a reef tank, with reliance on a DSB and ample LR, biological filtration is effective enough to reduce nitrates over time.

But because the natural reduction of nitrates by a DSB/LR may be slower than than how fast nitrates are produced by a wet/dry filter system, it may build up to a critical stage where the system will be unable to cope fast fast and thus negatively affect your livestock.

I used to install a wet/dry in my old tank and found that it took close to a year before my system could mature enough to reduce nitrates to tolerable levels naturally. Before that, I wasted a lot of money on nitrate-reducing stuff (newbie mistake).

I think some LFS copy cat each other without knowing the theory. I believe most of them use bioballs to break down the waste from their fish holding tanks, have anyone measured the nitrates from the water from the LFS?

You have to evaluate your own system... for overstocked/FO systems, a wet/dry system is probably good but you still have to find a way to deal with nitrates.

A properly setup system to deal with nitrates naturally is the DSB method. You may like to check it out more before deciding.

AT,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I agree DSB is the cheapest and most effective way for Reef tank but now I am moving on from FO to Reef tank and my filter system is a Wet/Dry one and I can't convert my sump to DSB.

I did add a 4" DSB in my main tank but it will take too long for maturity.

Now, I took out the 3/4 of my bio-balls from my overflow and have yet to decide to reuse it.

Should I place the bio-ball into my sump where the water inflow is ?

What do you think of getting those LR with plants adn putting into the main tank ? It look nice and absorb the nitrate ????

[Achilles Tang]

U mean you want to 'soak' your bioballs in your sump... uhhh... sure... it would be no different from using coralchips to 'trap dirt' as the LFS would say. Then once your detritus starts to break down... you know the end result.

You can use a refugium with macroalgae to absorb nitrates and phosphates... but you have to stock up with chaetomorpha or some other kind of algae that won't go asexual and crash.

[diabolus]

AT,

wat about the use of bio balls in a canister?

or just carbon and rowaphos with a polyfilter + a deep sandbed? ans of cos regular cleaning.

[Achilles Tang]

AT,

wat about the use of bio balls in a canister?

or just carbon and rowaphos with a polyfilter + a deep sandbed? ans of cos regular cleaning.

If you want to use a canister... using bioballs is a 'waste of space'... you can switch to smaller biorings (supposedly a huge surface area for bacteria to colonise). You still need to cope with nitrates because I dun think biorings have enough anaerobic qualities for denitrifying bacteria to grow in.

But I find that they still trap a lot of dirt so regular maintenance is still a chore with canisters.

I find that using a sump and DSB is so much more maintenance free compared to using a canister.

God forbid that you forget to turn on your canister for a day, oxygen levels drop rapidly inside and your bacteria DIES... and you get instant pollution and pukeable smell once you turn it back on, wiping out your tank!

[hoppinghippos]

AT, correct me if I"m wrong, but I think the most efficient way is to break down ammonia into final form of nitrates then use macroalgae to take in the nitrates? so we should have some form of wet/dry filter in combination with macroalgae? I think sponge filtration will anyway house bacteria to break down ammonia into nitrates, so all we need is mechanical filtration plus refugium? and since we rely on the sponge to house the bacteria we should not change sponge but only clean it and then reuse to keep the bacteria there? am I rite or wrong on my assumptions?

[jsoon]

U mean you want to 'soak' your bioballs in your sump... uhhh... sure... it would be no different from using coralchips to 'trap dirt' as the LFS would say. Then once your detritus starts to break down... you know the end result.

You can use a refugium with macroalgae to absorb nitrates and phosphates... but you have to stock up with chaetomorpha or some other kind of algae that won't go asexual and crash.

AT,

You are right about bio-ball being soaked in sump of water and it will become useless in its effectiveness.

So, do you think, I should put back my bio-balls into the overflow ?

The only issue is that I need to clean any excessive alage that has collected with the bio-ball and at the edge of the glass in the overflow.

[Achilles Tang]

It's up to you to evaluate the effectiveness of your own filtration system... to use or not to use. I think I have already stated down the reasons.

BTW, anyone interested to buy a bag of bioballs from me?

[pospeh]

AT, correct me if I"m wrong, but I think the most efficient way is to break down ammonia into final form of nitrates then use macroalgae to take in the nitrates? so we should have some form of wet/dry filter in combination with macroalgae? I think sponge filtration will anyway house bacteria to break down ammonia into nitrates, so all we need is mechanical filtration plus refugium? and since we rely on the sponge to house the bacteria we should not change sponge but only clean it and then reuse to keep the bacteria there? am I rite or wrong on my assumptions?

I think wet dry systems are probably most efficient (of all methods) in breaking down biomatter down to ammonia, to nitrites and then to nitrates.

The problem is what to do with the nitrates that wet-dry systems do not process.

Macroalgae refugium seems to be a good solution to me.

[nqh71]

For me, I use it initially... CAuse need to convert the ammonia rather quickly... BUt a month or two later, would remove half... then another month half of the remainder, until about 5 months, all of it is removed...

[y_sweebeng]

i add about 460pcs of bioballs in my 1st n 2nd compartment of my sump tank where water fr main tank will enter the 1st compartment 1st,so do i need to remove my bioballs now?and put what inside?my tank is only 2.5 months old.it is a 3 feet tank,sump tank also 3 feet

[Achilles Tang]

You can leave it empty if you don't have use for your bioballs.

[diabolus]

next time we bring out all the unwanted bio balls and go "pak go li" with it ok?

[pospeh]

Sorry, I only have 2 bioballs and they are very much needed--essential even.

[Achilles Tang]

Pospeh, what's wrong with you tonight? Jewels and now bioballs?

[GATECRASHER]

if ammonia , nitrite and nitrate make up 100% of the 'toxins' in our tank and that fishes can tolerate nitrate better than ammonia and nitrite , then i dont see any reason why any of u should be against the use of bio balls. isn't it better to have more nitrates than to have the presence of ammonia and nitrite in the tank as well? just wondering

[Achilles Tang]

Uhmm, if your biological filtration is properly cycled and established, it will have no problems coping with the production of nitrates.

If a hobbyist would rather spend money on bioballs vs setting up a DSB or spending money on a good skimmer or skimp on LR... then by all means, struggle to deal with high nitrates.

Ammonia and nitrite should be properly dealt with from the beginning and the only way I can see these recurring is when there is a tank crash caused by a livestock wipeout or massive & sudden overfeeding.

A mature filtration system that is properly setup will bounce back faster than one which not only immature but inadequate.

Am I making any sense?

[GATECRASHER]

Uhmm, if your biological filtration is properly cycled and established, it will have no problems coping with the production of nitrates.

If a hobbyist would rather spend money on bioballs vs setting up a DSB or spending money on a good skimmer or skimp on LR... then by all means, struggle to deal with high nitrates.

Ammonia and nitrite should be properly dealt with from the beginning and the only way I can see these recurring is when there is a tank crash caused by a livestock wipeout or massive & sudden overfeeding.

A mature filtration system that is properly setup will bounce back faster than one which not only immature but inadequate.

Am I making any sense?

i got only 2 inch dsb. enough or not cos didnt take enough from the beach laaaa

[Achilles Tang]

Moby Dick, you should dig more sand laaaaaaaaa.

[Siput]

Hi AT, sorry to revive such an old thread, but if the bio balls were to increase nitrates, can a full DSB ###### LR set-up cope and remove the nitrates? Or wld the load be too heavy...

Also, would it be a good idea to start with the bio balls for faster cycling and remove them bit by bit over the next several mths?

Right now starting with FOWLR, but mebbe as more experience gained will convert to reef abt 1 year down the road, so want to "start right"...

[Jun Hong]

It is more desired that ammonia and nitrite to be break down at top layer of DSB or LR surface than in the bioball. The reason is the nitrate produced at those areas are nearer to the denitrifiying area (bottom layer of DSB and inside LR) so it can be processed faster into harmless nitrogen.