Zeovit Method

[LinkinPark]

1. Tank vol

2. Bioload such as how many fishes (sizes), corals

3. Are u a DSB owner

4. How long your tank has been running 

5. Did u practice the 3hr ON/OFF

1. Net volume: 110g

2. 2 Tangs, 1 Algae blenny, 1 6-line, many sps & lps

3. No DSB. My 1-2" sandbed for nice viewing only

4. Old tank 1.5 years. Transferred to new tank on 3 Oct 04.

5. Yes

Btw, i have seen a number of times when someone mentioned phase 3. What does that mean? When are u consider in phase 3? After few mths of usage?

Check this out: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=472392

[weisoon]

There is a theory that kalkwasser should not be used in Zeovit system as they pooled PO4 may be release back into the water column.

My previous setup (using zeovit), the Ca and Alk was supplemented using Kent 2 part additive and they do not cause any problems with the sps.

This theory of not using kalkwasser in Zeovit system needs more documented studies.

Please correct me if I am wrong on my own deductions on how about PO4(organic and inorganic orthophosphate) and kalkwasser with interact with each other.

We know that PO4 enter the water column through many ways and means....food, waste, additive etc. The organic PO4 will be metabolized/consumed to a certain extent by bacteria and even corals and fishes and most of it will be skimmed out. Once metabolized, they result of such process is inorganic orthophosphate. That's where they will stay in the water column (and measured by test kits as organic PO4 will not be able to be measured easily by normal test kits). The addition of kalkwasser will precipitate out the inorganic PO4 into calcium phosphate and remain bounded and so called 'pooled' in the water column.

I am thinking that if the PH of the water column remains high in the region of 8.2-8.4, the calcium phosphate will remain in bounded and may not release back into the water column.

What is interesting and my question is: in the Zeovit system if the PO4 are absorbed into the zeolith, will there be a chance that this 'pooled' PO4 in the media itself at a certain point in time has a chance to release back the PO4 into the water column. I think no one can tell when that will happen as surely there are no clear indication/signal at all visually. The only way is based on load and guided replacement of the zeolith at certain number of weeks at the different phases.

[weileong]

The diff betw zeovit & PO4-removal media is to reduce nutrients SLOWLY and CONSISTENTLY.

If algae blooms due to high nutrient, then be patient and the benefit may take a longer time to see compare to a tank with lower nutrient.

I prefer to follow the manufacturer's recommendation.

I fully agree with following the manufacturing's recommendation.

Here's what I meant by "dosing more zeostart" (perhaps I should have explained in more detail).

If you continue to dose zeostart at the same dosage and the amount of zeostart can only reduce the nutrients at the same level as they are introduced into the system then you will not be able to achieve the purpose of nutrient reduction.

Only by increasing the amount of zeostart can you to removed the pooled nutrients. What I meant by increasing is for example from 2ml daily to 2.5ml daily and for example by measuring the PO4 to see if the PO4 is dropping to determine if higher dosage is needed. At the same time the corals should be monitored for thinning of tissues at the tips or brown slime.

[AlfaRomeo]

Weisoon, from what limited understanding of the Zeovit system I have, it seems that the zeoliths itself do not actively remove PO4 (organic or inorganic) from the water colum. Instead , its the job of ZEOstart to convert inorganic PO4 to Organic PO4 and the be extracted out by the skimmer. Thats another reason they recommended a properly rated skimmer to be used in conjunction with Zeovit.

On the point of Ph, its recommended that the Ph of the system be kept at 7.9 or so... part of the reason I guess is to liberate the pooled PO4 and then removed from the water by the skimmer.

My interpretation of the logic behind the system.

[weisoon]

Alfa

Thanks for the input.

From what I know, the main function of the Zeolith is (just like the ones used in freshwater) is to absorb ammonia and thus not allowing the organics the chance to breakdown further into NO2-NO3-PO4.

Agreed totally that a over-rated skimmer is required in ZeoVit system. Most users would have noticed the increased skimmate after starting the system and it is always better to 'tune' a wet skimmate instead of dry one.

One point about maintaining PH at 7.9 for the system as recommended by ZeoVit, isn't it going against the logic of the system in providing a stable environment with parameters as close as possible to NSW? Surely the ocean's PH cannot be at 7.9 all the time?

[AlfaRomeo]

I think they are mentioning that the Ph should be less than the normally recommended 8.3 due to the possibility of pooled PO4 which will affect the condition of the SPS.

I think a range of 7.8 - 8.2 or so would still be ok for all inhabitants>

Anyway, with a Kh of about 7-8, it would naturally fall into that range rite? Pls correct me if im mistaken or misguided. Still newbie lah..

On the PO4 front, I think ZEOstart is introduced into the tank to remove NO3/PO4 which is already present in the water before introduction of ZEOvit, wherelse the zeoliths are being used to prevent more NO3/PO4 from being converted from Ammonia. Thats why the ZEOstart dosages is supposed to be reduced when progressing from Stage 1 to 3. Logical?

[chanbi]

LinkinPark, thanks for the infor.. So your "new" tank is ~7 weeks old and u have been using Zeovit for the past ~6weeks? So did u go through the cycling process and any problem with diatom, HA etc?? Or is the Zeovit able to keep it to a minimum?

Weisoon, Thomas has replied and he dun recommend the Kalk reactor unless your existing PO4 is already zero. His reply as shown..

As long as your tank has PO4, kalkwasser will fell the phosphate and it will be accumulated at your rocks, also in the sand. You will get a PO4 pool which slow will leach phosphate to your tank. Once your tank is PO4 free the PO4 felling effect is not to much. We recommend a CaCO2 reactor with the system, but if your tank already is PO4 free you could give kalkwasser a try.

[weisoon]

So, can cycle tank with RowaPhos and after cycling and starting ZeoVit, then take out RowaPhos. Can start dosing kalkwasser after the zeovit finish all the phases so that the kalkwasser will not compete with the Zeostart for the PO4?

[weisoon]

Have another question to add:

The function of the ZeoStart is to provide food for the bacteria so that they can multiply then help to remove NO3 and PO4.

But the by product of organic PO4 through bacteria action is inorganic orthophosphate. So what happens to the inorganic orthophosphate? Still 'stuck' in the water column or skimmed out? I personally think that the inorganic orthophosphate is quite difficult to be skimmed out except the organic phosphate.

[chanbi]

Weisoon, that is how i interpret it as well... ie. it is ok to use Kalk (more for topping up water and maintain calcium and not to precipitate PO4) when you achieve ~zero PO4.

And i have the same question as to how the zeolite "remove" the PO4 and this is what he told me...

The zeolite is not able to absorb PO4. PO4 is converted by a biological process (bacteria) which makes it possible to be skimmed.

So seem like it is really able to be skimmed out. But whether it is inorganic orthophosphate or organic phosphate then i am not too sure.

[weisoon]

Another question which I had doubt:

Using of RowaPhos with Zeovit system. It is not recommended as it may react and make the Zeovit system ineffective. But look at G.Alexander who is using Aluminium based PO4 remover!

He uses a small container to hold the PO4 Al. media and make the effluent of CR to drip through the small container to remove the PO$ from CR media. Most of use know that all CR media including ARM who reported to have the lowest content of PO4 still release PO4. Has anyone ever measured the CR effluent for PO4??

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...threadid=476939

[LinkinPark]

LinkinPark, thanks for the infor.. So your "new" tank is ~7 weeks old and u have been using Zeovit for the past ~6weeks? So did u go through the cycling process and any problem with diatom, HA etc?? Or is the Zeovit able to keep it to a minimum?

Hi Chanbi

I bought some LR from reefers and have been "cured" together with the sand for @ 2 months while waiting for my tank to arrive. I also used PO4 removal & carbon in the curing process.

I use these "new" LR and sand, together with my "old" existing LR from my older tank for my new tank. I transferred everything (my corals, fish etc) over within one day.

I did not start the system until one week later. I don't have diatom problem, except hair algae & bryopsis in the 1st 3 weeks. Now there is much lesser algae.

Except for certain "old" LR (2-3 pieces) which has stubborn algae, which I believed that PO4 has binded into. This will take a longer time to remove.

The system has definitely help me in controlling algae (besides my 3 ever hungry vegetarian fishes)

[LinkinPark]

Using of RowaPhos with Zeovit system. It is not recommended as it may react and make the Zeovit system ineffective. But look at G.Alexander who is using Aluminium based PO4 remover! He uses a small container to hold the PO4 Al. media and make the effluent of CR to drip through the small container to remove the PO$ from CR media.

The vendor discourages the use of PO4 removal in the tank as these media remove PO4 and nutrient TOO FAST & TOO EFFICIENTLY that the sps might not be able to handle the sudden drop & change. The system removes nutrients slowly and consistently so that the coral has sufficient "time" to adjust to the change in parameter.

I believe G Alexander uses the PO4 remover to remove PO4 from the water that flows from the reactor to tank (only @ 3.5L per hour), not within the tank itself.

If he places within the tank, then the nutrients will drop too fast and .......

[AlfaRomeo]

Linkinpark, I dunt think thats the reason why he didnt place it in the tank. IF the PO4 level in a tank is already pretty much 0 (which GA's tank is), there will not be any nutrient for the PO4 remover to absord and drop further either fast or slow....

Main reason for not putting the PO4 remover in tank is due to the possibility of the PO4 remover to leach back its absorbed nutrients after a while and also disrupting the bacteria on the zeoliths which is supposed to feed off the NO3 and PO4 and covert it to skimmable by-products. Just my theory...

[weisoon]

Linkinpark, I dunt think thats the reason why he didnt place it in the tank. IF the PO4 level in a tank is already pretty much 0 (which GA's tank is), there will not be any nutrient for the PO4 remover to absord and drop further either fast or slow....

Main reason for not putting the PO4 remover in tank is due to the possibility of the PO4 remover to leach back its absorbed nutrients after a while and also disrupting the bacteria on the zeoliths which is supposed to feed off the NO3 and PO4 and covert it to skimmable by-products. Just my theory...

Prevent competition of food I guess.

But if the system has been running zeovit for sometime and the PO4 is more or less 0, then I will think in my own sense that using Rowa in tank will not have much effect on using rowa on a small container to absorb the CR eff. PO4.

On the issue of PO4 leeches back after it is full, Rowa mention that it will not leech back PO4 as it is the inorganic PO4 that is binded to the rowa. Unlike carbon, it will leech back.

Think that the food for the bacteris to consume PO4 is quite subjective.....what happen that the tank bio load is so low (no fish only corals) and the absorbtion rate is faster than the use up rate, wouldn't the bacteria will suffer if there are no more PO4 to consume as food?

[Siaokia]

Hi..may i noe where to get the Zeovit system and wad are the basic essentials that i need to get?...and also how much does it costs altogether?

[Achilles Tang]

You can get Zeovit stuff locally from Ocean Planet.

[weileong]

this thread seems to have sort of ended w/o any conclusion. The last time I step into this thread was in Nov and too many changes has taken place like a lot of pple giving up on zeovit also at the same time other reefers started using it.

It is said that the zeolites releases iron and that inorganic PO4 would be bin by the iron on one end and iron eating bacterial would consume the iron (with the PO4 already bin to it). The skimmer would be skim out the bacterial (together with the binned iron).

When zeovit stage 3 is achieved (meaning no more pooled nutrients). At this stage NO3 and PO4 would already be undetectable and remains so without the need for zeostart (which had been giving a lot of reefer problem as they cannot keep track on how to dose it properly hence leading to a lot of problem with over and under dose).

Zeofood (as carbon source is needed) to maintain the bacterial population.

After using the full zeovit system for 10 months and going thru my 9th change of zeolith 2 weeks ago, I can say that the zeovit system truely delivers what it promises, ultra clear water, low nutrients (NO3, PO4 undetectable, colorful SPS. The system has allowed me to keep a relatively heavy fish load and also feed my fishes heavily (no paper thin tangs) and still having ultra low nutrients.

The big improvement I got was when I went barebottom for my current setup. Currently at 40 days after going BB. Zeovit full potential can only be unleashed with full berlin setup. Stable parameters are essential to avoid stress to the corals (example, stable salinity, kH, Ca, Mg etc).

The zeovit stuffs are easy to dose which takes up very little of my time. There is a need to understand how to dose and observe your corals and not just plain blind dosing which results in overdose and killing all your LS.

As I post this message, I can see the color of my SPS getting better each day, RTN/STN are a thing of the past, it is more enjoyable to get home daily with a tank full of colorful SPS, fat fishes and ultra clear water greeting you

[alanseah]

true true i totally agree to it...

for those ppls whom talk and yet no result... well they are just paper talk to me..

[andysho]

Hi weileong .. bro your tank look so stunning Lol

You are a hardcore Zeovit user sia

Still need to learnt from you

[Gouldian]

Thanks for the update Weileong, I have been waiting for more info on the Zeovit and whether we have any successes in Singapore.

With your postings and your new tank photos, I believe it is another system worth trying.