DSBs & long term viability, the evidence against..

[ldrhawke]

6 months after going BB

I rebuilt my 2 year old 50 G tank DSB about 6 months ago because I was having a hair algae control problem. I was also having difficulty keeping nutrients low enough to have any real success with SPS. I agree with others comments that stronge skimming while I had a DSB might have extended it's life or made it work better. At this point I very happy with using a BB

There are several major changes in my equipment and approach that I made when I went BB that I am very pleased with.

I am not giving any single modification or change credit for the improvments and new ease in keeping my system.

1. Changed out my DSB and went BB. Installed a 1/2' thick black acrylic bottom. I see the most important aspect about going BB is the ease of removing waste and making it easier to keep N and P low in the water column.

2. I modified and greatly improved my skimmer performance so that it skims out heavy amounts of waste now. Heavy skimming is the most important aspect if you are trying to keep SPS.

3. I added a bag filter system in my fuge that all my tank over flow goes through. I change out a hand full of polyester floss I put into the bags every couple of days as it becomes full of detrius.

4. I dose 2ml of vodka into the filter bags floss daily and do have Zeolite rock in one of the bags under the floss.

5. A little different approach to circulation. In addition to continuous strong recirculation; every 4 hours for 20 minutes I have a large capacity recirculation pump turn on and mixes all the waste off of the bottom so it overflows into the filter bags. For about a minute while the pump is running automatically an air stone is turned on which puts fine bubbles into the pump inlet. This 3000 gph pump gives a 60 time per hour turn over increase in my tank. I picture it to heavy wave action and a tidal change simulation.

This heavy pumping and aeration makes for a brief period of white foam froth through out the tank, like a heavy wave action would do. The bubbles attach themselves to the stirred up waste and float it to the top to be overflowed. Also, I was pleasently surprised to see what the bubbles did to the SPS, alot of the SPS slime is removed by the bubbles and floats over the top.

I have a heavy fish load...15 fish in a 50 gal tank so I thought this extra recircualtion was important.

A few controversial things.

First I agree with statements made by many that good housekeeping and being attentive is the most important aspect of reef keeping. Knowing what to do and how to do to address problems is another issue and some time it takes time to learn, especially with SPS. The hardest thing to learn is less is often better.

I am sure I will get both positive and negative comments on my approach. It has been in place for 6 moths and the tank and coral growth has never been better. Some of my SPS have nearly doubled in size in three months, and the color is great. I had a new blue Acro tort arrive dark brown last week and it turned blue in a week. I no longer have algae problems, the live rock is now covered with coraline, and the tank bottom is always clean. I simply make 20% water changes every two weeks, and unless I see a sign of stress, I no longer do any water analysis testing. As we all say....what ever works for you.

[XPeriment 626]

ldrhawke... your tank is very cool! love the curved shape and layout of the rocks.

[madmac]

Jus came across a great post as to why Macro algae is slowwer at taking P n N when compared to bacteria.

Macro algae leak

skim it wet, guys.

[FuEl]

Anyway, there is more to functional DSBs than loads of sand. The most important component of a functional DSB is the infauna in the sandbed. It must become a habit to replace the infauna every few months to account for natural population declines of such organisms in an enclosed system. In the absence of this replacement, you'll get the hydrogen sulphide accumulation like a balloon waiting to explode. The natural, slow release of such gases by sand-dwelling organisms will prevent the disastrous pH drop associated with sudden hydrogen sulphide leakage.

[MadScientist]

Wow, impressive discussion. Here's my 2 cents worth.

A system was proposed to inhibit hydrogen sulphide production while creating an anaerobic environment. The system was actually prototyped and tested for nitrate and hydrogen sulphide levels.

input -> canister filter -> Deaerator -> Fluidizing Chamber -> ozone generator -> protein skimmer -> output

The input consists of instant mix salt water in a water reservoir. The input was dosed with 1mg/L of ammonium nitrate per minute and 0.8% (w/v) glucose/ sucrose cocktail @ 0.1ml per minute. It is then transferred to a canister filter filled with sponge (coarse and fine grade) bio rings and bio home.

After processing of water by the canister, it is then transferred to a deaerator, the deaerator works by atomizing the water via a ultrafine jet nozzle vibrated by an ultrasonic generator. This effectively creates an enormous surface area for gases exchanges. The atomization of the water is done in a vacuum chamber. The low pressure in the chamber causes the gas solubility to drop, in accordance with Henry's Law. A air-permeable, water-impermeable membrane prevents the atomized water droplets from escaping via the air inlet/outlet. The atomized air is then pumped at high speed for impact with a cooled metal surface for condensation. Any non-condensible "steam" will remain in tank for remixing with existing atomized water to create a larger water droplet or be evacuated via air inlet/outlet, depending on the droplet size.

The condensed water is then transferred to a fluidizing chamber. Instead of the usual denitrator, the flow rate used was high enough to generate uplift force to fluidize C0 grade sand used in the chamber.

The processed water is then transferred to an ozone generator to oxidize any escaping bacterial organism and hydrogen sulphide.

The ozonized water is then transferred to a protein skimmer for removal of ozone and aeration of water.

The prototype was implemented for 6 months with nitrate testing done every week. The nitrate testing was done using a commercial aquarium nitrate test kit. The nitrate level is undetectable by the test kit on all the tests. Hydrogen sulphide was quantified by a water quality lab and the level was undetectable as well. Hydrogen sulphide test was only done once at the end of the 6 months due to the cost of the testing.

I do not know if this system can actually work in a tank environment. Please do drop me your comments and any suggestions on the improvement of this system for improved efficiency or improved user-friendliness.

Thx.

[reefer_cosmo]

...

The prototype was implemented for 6 months with nitrate testing done every week. The nitrate testing was done using a commercial aquarium nitrate test kit. The nitrate level is undetectable by the test kit on all the tests. Hydrogen sulphide was quantified by a water quality lab and the level was undetectable as well. Hydrogen sulphide test was only done once at the end of the 6 months due to the cost of the testing.

I do not know if this system can actually work in a tank environment. Please do drop me your comments and any suggestions on the improvement of this system for improved efficiency or improved user-friendliness.

Thx.

Wow, u work in the same industry as I do huh? Sounds like a power plant / industrial water treatment system. Usually, deaerator need a operating pressure of 5 bar to work. How are you going to implement that kind of pressure on a smaller scale home system at an affordable cost?

[MadScientist]

nope, haha. the operating pressure which I used was approx 125 psi. The chambers which I used are actually only 5cm3? I dont think you need powerful pumps to achieve that level of pressure in such a small volume. Anyway, I used industrial vacuum pumps.

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[Avren Lim]

On 6/14/2005 at 1:43 PM, apollo said:

Hi Guys

 

Am new to marine and am reading as much as i could on DSB.

 

However, it seems in the long run it is best not to have it unless yu can improvise it.

 

Attached is a link tht discusses the improvision. I wonder anybody have followed it closely and care to comment?

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...25&pagenumber=1

 

Honestly i think this method schud wrk fine for me.

Wow good method ..