The comet's 5 footer!!!

[hermit]

???????????????

bro are u doin cycling of your tank now huh?????????????????

if yes why u on your skimmer, fr wif rowa?

[Melvyn Tan]

yupz

i got check.

no overflow

don't worry

I think what he meant is when there is a power failure, will there be siphon action from the return pipe back to the sump. You can use a 1-way flow valve, a siphon break near the return pipe discharge to your main tank.

Say worse case scenerio there is flooding (when all the anti-siphon devices fail) - will it flood your sump?

[Ancelot]

as an opinion, i think it is wise to remove the filter floss cause think it this way if everyday your water gushes at that floss, the exchange rate of oxygen with the dead materials are so high that the bacteria can efficiently break down the dead matters into DOC (dissolved organic compounds) which will again be recycled into your tank. So whats the point in having the filter floss when the poo and waste are going back to your tank? if you say protein skimmer can do it, then let me tell you something.. protein skimmer can too remove dead matter from your tank, be it solid or dissolved.. but most of the time i will say your tank has a higher chance to have dissolved organics than solid poo cause if you got a sandbed your beneficial bacteria have already started working on those solid poo before it even got its chance to go into the sump.. secondly, hope you invest in some invertebrates like turbo snails or brittlestars. they work perfectly well for algae as well as dead matters.. for brittlestars they consume the dead matters like a dead fish and reduce it into something else (if i did not remember wrongly should be nitrate and ammonia) which your protein skimmer can again remove it. Even if its DOC your skimmer will be efficient to remove them too.. in short, a GOOD protein skimmer is a MUST!

About your coral chips, yes i agree that it will become a nitrate factory sooner or later but with constant high intensity air bubbling those coral chips can become a good way to denitrify your nitrate. because those coral chips wont become anaerobic instead become aerobic so its a suggestion worth a try...

Lastly, about rowa phos, why do you need rowa phos when you dont get high phosphate problems? IMO, you just waste a small sum of money.. i advise you to get carbon instead. Many people will shake their head when they hear carbon but trust me it too adsorbs DOC and alot of other stuffs too including medication and trace additions. but more importantly it adsorbs all the nasty stuffs from your tank.. of course dont invest in some cheapo carbon get eheim's carbon works well for me so far i dont get algae growth or whatever shit people are getting.. High phosphate can be controlled by constant cleaning of your sandbed, stringent feeding.. meaning fishes are to eat all your food within 5 minutes.. and also some invertebrates like cucumbers and snails.. cucumbers work best cause they eat detrius and shit out something else which your skimmer will skim out so worth a buy but for cukes remember not to have aggressive fishes to stress them otherwise they might die and kill alll your inhabitants. In closing we are trying to create a natural environment so try to minimise the usage of human intervention in your environment.. use Nature to counter the problems of Nature.. thats my rule..

In summary, rowa phos can only be a means to control uncontrollable phosphate problems but surely not a mean to solve your problems.. in my way, good skimming and investing in a good carbon will help more efficiently..

happy reefing and WOW what a big tank you got!

[terryansimon]

About your coral chips, yes i agree that it will become a nitrate factory sooner or later but with constant high intensity air bubbling those coral chips can become a good way to denitrify your nitrate. because those coral chips wont become anaerobic instead become aerobic so its a suggestion worth a try...

urh. the act of Nitrate being reduced to Nitrite and then Nitrogen requires an ANAEROBIC environment. meaning, an environment with LITTLE oxygen. (= only the bacteria responsible for breaking down Ammonia to Nitrite and Nitrite to Nitrtate *NH3 to NO2 and NO2 to NO3* are aerobic. meaning...require A LOT of oxygen.

In summary, rowa phos can only be a means to control uncontrollable phosphate problems but surely not a mean to solve your problems

really? then what do you do to solve your nitrate problems? you already said that rowaphos is used as a mean to control uncontrollable *very oxymoronic* phosphate problems. so if it can control a problem, why can't it solve a problem? (=

advise you to get carbon instead. Many people will shake their head when they hear carbon but trust me it too adsorbs DOC and alot of other stuffs too including medication and trace additions.

yeap. carbon absorbs a lot of things too. but do you know carbon also leaches out phosphate? that in itself, will add to the problem. PS. why is absorbing trace additions, or trace elements as it is known, a good thing. don't we want it to be in the water for as long a period of time as possible?

i dont get algae growth or whatever shit people are getting..

I never knew carbon could help in controlling algae growth. I thought that was a problem with NO3 and PO4...something which carbon cannot remove.

High phosphate can be controlled by constant cleaning of your sandbed, stringent feeding.. meaning fishes are to eat all your food within 5 minutes.. and also some invertebrates like cucumbers and snails..

any bio-organic matter will contribute phosphate. phosphate is introduced into the system via food, tap water *during water changes or top up*, and bio-waste like excrements.

cucumbers work best cause they eat detrius and shit

they do? I never knew. I thought they stirred sand only. hehz. I learnt something new today. (=

In closing we are trying to create a natural environment so try to minimise the usage of human intervention in your environment.. use Nature to counter the problems of Nature.. thats my rule..

if that's the case. don't use skimmer or carbon. plain liverocks will do.

[terryansimon]

bro are u doin cycling of your tank now huh?????????????????

if yes why u on your skimmer, fr wif rowa?

RowaPhos is added into a cycling tank so as to reduce the Phosphate levels present in the tank.

this will prevent or reduce the likelihood of an algae bloom, especially at the part of the cycling stage where NO3 is in astronomical amounts.

I think RowaPhos itself recommends the use of its products during the cycling stage.

[Ancelot]

whether there are rowa phos or no rowa phos there will be algae bloom! you cant run away from that...

[Ancelot]

I know carbon leaches out phosphate.. thats why i advise everyone not to buy cheap carbon! get eheim's carbon! worth your money and promise you that it wont leach out any phosphate.. anyway lousy carbon do not only leech out phosphate it leeches out copper too..

[terryansimon]

please read properly.

prevent OR reduce. not AND. more likely than not, yes, it will happen.

but Rowaphos will prevent it from turning into a green garden. the most you'll have is only a few patches here and there. (=

I know carbon leaches out phosphate.. thats why i advise everyone not to buy cheap carbon! get eheim's carbon! worth your money and promise you that it wont leach out any phosphate.. anyway lousy carbon do not only leech out phosphate it leeches out copper too..

fact. ALL and I mean ALL carbons leech out phosphate. it's a proven fact. be it Eheim or any other brand. (=

[Ancelot]

how do i control phosphate? i use skimming to control it! Everyone always believe that rowa phos is a must .. but understand this.. it only solves your problem but does not get rid of the root of the problem.. in a closed up system it is hard to rid of the root what we can do is just to control the phosphate level.. yup you are right phos comes from many sources esp water top ups (anyway sometimes DUST can bring you phos!!! ) so you think rowa phos can control your phos level? think which is better? long term spending of money on rowa phos or a few dollars detrivores such as sand sifting gobies which will last you much longer not to mention colour up your tank??

anyway phos comes in particulate organic form.. so mechanical filtration will help as well.. BUT!! you got to maintain the cleanliness of the wool meaning change it every week! otherwise the organic phos dissolves goes back to your tank then what for using wool to export it??

[Ancelot]

OK.. you got a point there not anything wrong.. but understand too that i am helping someone save his pocket.. if you want to invest in something that will in the end burns your pocket go ahead.. i wont stop you.. anyway i didnt say carbon wont leech phos its just that eheim's carbon leeches less than other brands.. i tried it test it and confirm it.. dont believe go buy some and use a test kit and try?.. anyway phosphoric acid is used to give you the porous look of your AC, so how can carbon not contain phosphorous?

[terryansimon]

dust and phosphate? I never knew ions could exist in solid form.

urh. you don't get me do you. every organic thing, including you and me, has phosphate in the body. when we excrete waste, phosphate comes out. so getting all the critters in the world, not only builds up unnecessary bio-load, but may also contribute to the phosphate problem through their waste excrements. phosphate also finds its way into the system by ways of feeding and water changes. you still haven't answered that part of the question.

the wool has nothing to do with phosphate. only nitrate. trapped detritus, in the long run, will contribute to NO3 levels as wool sure as hell ain't anaerobic, and will only speed up the break down from NH4 to NO2 and NO2 to NO3.

skimming controlling phosphate? okay that I believe. and everybody doesn't believe Rowaphos is a must. everybody does believe that Rowaphos will help and can help and is a good helper. nobody is at gun point and pressured into buying Rowaphos. why act like as if somebody twisted your knickers. (=

and PS. Rowaphos doesn't cost as much as it does nowadays. a batch of Rowaphos, can be used in the tank for as long as the phosphate levels do not creep back up to 0.03ppm. which for my tank, is six months. spending $80 every six months is quite a worthwhile investment if you ask me.

and double PS. Rowaphos has been in the market for some time, and have received many, and I mean MANY rave reviews. are we suppose to dump Rowaphos and pick up carbon after reading your claims that Eheim carbon can absorb PO4 ions?

[Ancelot]

and okie.. terryanismon about the nitrate thing i was wrong.. i remembered my facts wrongly for that I apologise

Sorry dude!

[blueheaven]

What has dentrivores got to do with phosphate?

Anyway, yes skimming removes PO4 but only to a very small extent. The skimmate you see is not the phosphate mind you.

We cannot run away from phosphate even if you use RO/DI as it comes with food as well.

Using rowa or contra has already proven to be useful as it targets the PO4 directly and can rapidly absorb PO4 compared to your skimmer.

[Ancelot]

ok.. i shant carry this on anymore.. i think everyone got their own ideas about a reef so lets just wait and see what each of us can come up with in the end of the day.. =)

[blueheaven]

Write articles instead

Share your views on this in another topic.

If you want to learn more about sandbeds and bacteria, you can read my article for a start

[Ancelot]

Sorry for spamming this thread! Apologies!

[Ekia]

Write articles instead

Share your views on this in another topic.

If you want to learn more about sandbeds and bacteria, you can read my article for a start

i agree with blueheaven, seems like u got some new views on reefkeeping. It might not be wrong though. Maybe u can write an article on it and let we/rest of the world comment on it. Maybe those scientists will do some tests on your views and may prove us all wrong about your views.....

From my readings on articles and other forums, i have to agree with terryansimon on most of the theories and i must say it is on theory only.... maybe some experimental results can prove us all wrong

[Plenum]

macro as350...got this at a dead flat cheap price

I think u might want to consider putting something at the base of the skimmer to support the weight, in case it "tears" the wall its hanging on in your sump. Think the weight of the skimmer plus water would be quite heavy.

Edited November 3, 2004 by DeepBlue

[shoelevy]

???????????????

bro are u doin cycling of your tank now huh?????????????????

if yes why u on your skimmer, fr wif rowa?

wah

so many quest to answer!!!

ok

i'm now in army net room

hee

so can surf awhile

i'm relying on the die offs from the liverocks to cause an ammonia spike so i'm still waiting for the spike...if i detect it this weekend then yes...i am cycling...if not i add market prawn

i cycling with skimmer to make sure its working....2 because some reefers sae it'd be good to run skimmer to remove detritus during the cyclnig stage...no harm with cleaner water rite/

i use rowaphos now cause i know po4 binds with liverocks and will leach with time...i don't want that so i'm running it now....besides, rowaphos box saes its better to run rowa during cycling stage so....ya

[shoelevy]

ok ancelot...i raelly haf to agree with terryansimon on many of the things u mentioned...seriously..i think wool is darn important....it maybe nitrate factory but ref will take care of tt....nothin is perfect...u jus haf to see if the pros outweigh the cons for u to use it.

jus like coral chips...i think its an alternate space for bac to grow but its a nitrate factory...i think the pro of having more bact from its surf area to grow on outweighs its con of being a nitate factory and i've got a ref to solve it...u get my pt on weighing the pros and cons?

and seriously...rowaphos is proven by many i know and many i don't know but who've written articles on rowaphos...and its definitely worth it la....besides...i got 1ppm of po4 now...kinda high and i wanna reduce it to prevent or reduce the CHANCES of getting algae bloom or the extent of one if i do get it

[shoelevy]

oh...and regarding pros and cons issue....i haf to pt out one thing u said....u said po4 can be controlled by cleaning sandbed.

1)without organisms, some parts r quite inaccessible so can't really do tt well

2)with organisms...it may help reduce po4 but the increase in excretion results in higher ammonia which leads to higher nitrates....another problem is born

not use rowa more nitrate....use rowa less but more costly

get my pt on weighing/

[shoelevy]

more nitrate means need to cut caulerpa more often to export the nutrients so more maintenance...hur hur

i jus prefer spend some money every few months and not having to worry if phosphate is introduced through my top ups or ovefeeding by my mum since i'm not home most of the time...in army

aniwae..i beleive u know wat u r doing la bro ancelot...but i guess yr setup isn't really suitable for me ba

i'm sticking to my wool, rowa and coral chip power!

hehe

[shoelevy]

I think what he meant is when there is a power failure, will there be siphon action from the return pipe back to the sump. You can use a 1-way flow valve, a siphon break near the return pipe discharge to your main tank.

Say worse case scenerio there is flooding (when all the anti-siphon devices fail) - will it flood your sump?

oh yeah

i did a blackout test

it didn't flood the sump....its fine...no flood

[shoelevy]

I think u might want to consider putting something at the base of the skimmer to support the weight, in case it "tears" the wall its hanging on in your sump. Think the weight of the skimmer plus water would be quite heavy.

thanks bro....stacked one whole dump of newspapers below....thanks for telling

[shoelevy]

ok!

after 1 whole week, i've not detected a single trace of ammonia

so i haf no choice but to add in one small heh bee!

dried shirmp!

i'll add it in...let it rot....then kick start the cycling!