The 'Living rock' sump

[SharkBait]

The sandbed might be the cause of your nitrate problem. You should either increase it to 4-5 inches to become a DSB or remove it totally and go barebottom.

[lightningstrike]

ur dsb not deep enuff. at least 4" is needed if u ask me. now it is like in the middle of nowhere and result in incomplete denitrification which is a scenario u dun wanna be in.

[Travy]

I thought it was deep enuff, when i set up my tank i still have more then 6kg left.

If i put it in slowly will it work? Or do i have to strip down the whole thing? Or maybe all in at one shot?

But keep having the thought that my tank will one day break from all the weight inside...

[SharkBait]

Why dont you start a new thread with your full tank specs to let the guys see whats the cause of your nitrate problem. It could be due to high bioload, lack of waterflow causing detritus build up or could be the sandbed clogging up.

[patrick123]

suggested solutions i can think of so far for this problem.

solution 1: cost wise, impractical. but it will work anyway. increase water movement within sump via closed loop or powerheads.

solution 2: filter floss to capture detritus b4 it can reach the compartment for LRs in the sump.

This is the sump and not the refugium. Why will the flow in the sump be slow? Considering the size of the main tank to the sump, the flow in the sump should be quite fast.

In any case, I think we both agree that using LR as a filter media is expensive.

[SharkBait]

unless you add in powerheads inside the sump. The flow of the return water alone is not enough to clear the LR of detritus.

[lightningstrike]

I thought it was deep enuff, when i set up my tank i still have more then 6kg left.

If i put it in slowly will it work? Or do i have to strip down the whole thing? Or maybe all in at one shot?

But keep having the thought that my tank will one day break from all the weight inside...

that's why u hv to get the appropriate thickness of glass for ur tank. i go wif sharkbait. start another thread by posting ur pics, water parameters and equipments. it will do u no harm but good.

[Travy]

Why dont you start a new thread with your full tank specs to let the guys see whats the cause of your nitrate problem. It could be due to high bioload, lack of waterflow causing detritus build up or could be the sandbed clogging up.

Yeah maybe i should... Tomorrow la... tired liao... In camp whole day, almost fell asleep during training. Went swimming and running juz now also... Now super shag...

But anyway i am gonna convert my filter to sump. It'll have more pros then cons i believe. HAHA! Getting the 'tank' tomorrow, gona draw out the 'blueprint' and get the pieces cut.

Think i'll run the canister and the sump co-currently to mature my sump b4 switching totally to it.

But will still need yur help with the sump guys!!!

Comments, Ideas and personal experiences?

[Travy]

that's why u hv to get the appropriate thickness of glass for ur tank. i go wif sharkbait. start another thread by posting ur pics, water parameters and equipments. it will do u no harm but good.

True true...

Man... better let u guys help me find out whats wrong.

BUt the thickness of glass is fine, its juz a mentality... HAHAHA!

You know glass being transparent and all... i know i know... probably u guys r slapping yur foreheads readin this.

Now first thing first... wheres that digi cam...

[Chefri]

how if I use DSB with 4-5inches fine sand but without live sand ? does it work ?

[Travy]

Hey chefri,

In that case i believed that u will need to let yur sandbed mature b4 adding any livestock.

Live sand is usually ise when one wants to shorten the tanks' cycling period. From about 1mth to maybe 2 or 3 weeks.

[marcvelous]

how if I use DSB with 4-5inches fine sand but without live sand ? does it work ?

Doesn't matter if you use "live" sand or not.

In time to come, the dead sand or rocks that you use will be colonised by bacteria, it's just a matter of time.

Alot of LR is good if you using Berlin method. Else, judging by surface area by volume, sintered glass chips, ceramic rings or even sand is more effective than LR. All you really want is alot of surface area for bacteria growth in an area with no light and/or oxygen for the bacteria to be anaebolic.

[terryansimon]

why nobody mention water change to remove NO3 ah?

I did that, before I started my refugium. (=

[Travy]

why nobody mention water change to remove NO3 ah?

I did that, before I started my refugium. (=

Water changes are standard mah..

I do it every week. About 20%, to keep NO3 below 10mg.

Till me system gets more mature and more stable...

what i've heard... 6mths rite?

[terryansimon]

you'll be surprised.

many people will go through great lengths to reduce NO3 by employing other means. you tell them that water changes is the most immediate way to reduce NO3, and the glimmer of hope suddenly lights up in their eyes.

what I understand about water changes is that you want to dilute the NO3 levels to as low a level as possible. this will then allow the anaerobic bacteria hidden deep beneath the rocks, or anywhere else like a sand bed or something, to have a chance to remove the nitrates. even though at this present rate, they are already removing the nitrate by reducing it to NO2, and then further reducing it to N2 and O2. but as the current levels are presently high, the effect of such a slow moving cycle doesn't look apparent.

try a refugium. it works wonders in removing NO3, and also breeding up a massive population of pods. if you need macroalgae, I can spare you some Racemosa Caluerpa for free. if your parents/significant other is dead against having lights coming from the sump, try to form a sort of cover around the sump area. then you can safely put in lights there, without having to bare the sekeleton of the tank's cabinet.

alternatively, you may want to get a hang-on refugium. you can check with our sponsor Ian regarding the hang-on refugium.

PS. as to your first post. LRs don't need lights for the algae to survive. (= the lights are there to mainly cultivate the coraline algae that makes it aesthetically pleasing. (=

[Travy]

The attachhed file my a design i thought of for my sump.

Can anyone give me some pointers?

My_sump.doc

[terryansimon]

looks like mine. except mine has a tower of sorts on the left hand side.

[Travy]

looks like mine. except mine has a tower of sorts on the left hand side.

Oh. How big is it? How much did u get it done for?

[terryansimon]

I think 3ft length. not too sure about the dimensions.

came together with my tank.

[Ekia]

looks like mine. except mine has a tower of sorts on the left hand side.

looks exactly like mine!!! from the same person....

[RAV-65]

the water change not very efficient when it comes to low levels of nitrates, dat means, if u have 20ppm, change 30%, u r still left with about 14-15ppm... so the refugium would be pretty helpful...

but if u have good water movements to lessen the deritus buildup and dun overfeed, it can help alot... coz, there's nothing to process in the 1st place...

[terryansimon]

the water change not very efficient when it comes to low levels of nitrates, dat means, if u have 20ppm, change 30%, u r still left with about 14-15ppm... so the refugium would be pretty helpful...

but if u have good water movements to lessen the deritus buildup and dun overfeed, it can help alot... coz, there's nothing to process in the 1st place...

ah yes. coz then, the dilution level will lower. how to explain.

something like radioactive half life. half of 50 is 25, half of 25 is 12.5 and half of 12.5 is something else.

so to achieve dilution of lower levels, while not completely impossible, would require a larger amount of water to reach the levels required.

okay that radioactive half life thing is crap. can't think of any examples to illustrate it though.

[Travy]

Hmmm....

WHY NOT... Think of Nitrate like ribina syrup in a glass. HAHA!

Dilute and drink, dilute and drink... till theres no more redness. But u have to ignore the possibility of finish drinking the whole glass to kill the problem str8 lah.