The 'Living rock' sump

[Travy]

Hey Bros and Sis,

Came across this type of sump sysytem a couple of times, But only seen it in detail at iwarna.

The sump is made up of nothing more then protein skimmer and lots of living rocks. The water quality in their display tank looks superb!!!

Thinkin of setting one up as dont think my mom would like me to hav an extra hood of lights for my refugium....

But....

Have a couple of questions:

- How does it work? Algae... i can understand, but LR with no lighting??

- How effective is it?

- Do i need to do the same cycling with it?

[lightningstrike]

- How does it work? Algae... i can understand, but LR with no lighting??

Berlin Method. Yahoo Search on Berlin Method here.

- How effective is it?

effectiveness varies with diff setups. judge 4 urself. some ppl prefer Jaulbert, some Berlin, some both, some other options, recently zeovit.

- Do i need to do the same cycling with it?

yes. cycling shld be done irregardless of what bio filtration method u go for.

[patrick123]

LR is just another type of filtration media like coral chips or coral sand. The advantage is, unlike coral chips, it will be less likely to trap debris and so less chance of turning into a nitrate factory.

However, with the restriction of importing LR, using LR as a filtration media is an expensive option.

[[JS]]

Berlin Method can reduce no3?

[SharkBait]

LR is just another type of filtration media like coral chips or coral sand. The advantage is, unlike coral chips, it will be less likely to trap debris and so less chance of turning into a nitrate factory.

However, with the restriction of importing LR, using LR as a filtration media is an expensive option.

I beg to differ. In the sump where the waterflow is low, detritus is just as likely to be trapped by the LR. The organisms within the LR will also contribute to the detritus, in this way, the nitrate factory problem is aggrevated instead.

[blueheaven]

If you are looking into a "lightless" refugium, you might want to consider cryptic systems. Basically you want to grow sponges, tunicates and other organisms that do not like light.

More info can be found here: www.dynamicecomorphology.com

[Travy]

Hey Guys! Thanks alot!

But where do all the NO3 goes to? Since there is no plants to utilized it?

Been thru some of the sites lightning gave, but they didnt really explain leh...

Been trying the extreme to cut my NO3 down to 0... haha.

Regretted the canister man...

Zeovit? haha sounds cool... Whats that?

[Travy]

If you are looking into a "lightless" refugium, you might want to consider cryptic systems. Basically you want to grow sponges, tunicates and other organisms that do not like light.

More info can be found here: www.dynamicecomorphology.com

SO basically, i need a whole tankful of sponge encrusted rocks and a thriving poplulation of 'lower' organisiums...

But that will take months or even years to set up!

[blueheaven]

Zeovit? Go to the SPS forum to find out

[blueheaven]

SO basically, i need a whole tankful of sponge encrusted rocks and a thriving poplulation of 'lower' organisiums...

But that will take months or even years to set up!

According to RC, some setups take just a few weeks to have a nice amount of those organisms.

One disadvantage might be that you may need increased phyto concentrations to encourage them to grow

[[JS]]

tats mean a lot of LR also can reduce no3?

[blueheaven]

from what i know....i might not be right....if i am wrong..pls correct me...

the bacteria that removes NO3 thrives in anaerobic environments...hence they utillise the oxygen atoms from NO3 for their own respiration...the end product will be nitrogen gas bubbles...thats how NO3 is removed by bacteria...

You may want to read my article on sandbeds here: http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?...topic=21854&hl=

[Travy]

According to RC, some setups take just a few weeks to have a nice amount of those organisms.

One disadvantage might be that you may need increased phyto concentrations to encourage them to grow

Phyto concentration?

If i am correct to think what that is... Its the "food" for those cryptic buggies?

Organic concentration of the water? But isnt reducing that the first reason to start the system?

[blueheaven]

yep phyto encourages bethnic creatures to grow from their larval stage in your LR

did i mention organic concentration?

[lightningstrike]

I beg to differ. In the sump where the waterflow is low, detritus is just as likely to be trapped by the LR. The organisms within the LR will also contribute to the detritus, in this way, the nitrate factory problem is aggrevated instead.

suggested solutions i can think of so far for this problem.

solution 1: cost wise, impractical. but it will work anyway. increase water movement within sump via closed loop or powerheads.

solution 2: filter floss to capture detritus b4 it can reach the compartment for LRs in the sump.

[Travy]

yep phyto encourages bethnic creatures to grow from their larval stage in your LR

did i mention organic concentration?

Ermm...

hehehe... okok so i am wrong...

Detail defination of phyto?

[lightningstrike]

Ermm...

hehehe... okok so i am wrong...

Detail defination of phyto?

why not make use of the SRC search engine b4 asking further, as some of the topics hv been covered many times b4.

[blueheaven]

Phyto=Phytoplankton

Phytoplankton=Microscopic plants that many organisms derive their food from.

As they say, nutrition form the top of the food chain

[SharkBait]

suggested solutions i can think of so far for this problem.

solution 1: cost wise, impractical. but it will work anyway. increase water movement within sump via closed loop or powerheads.

solution 2: filter floss to capture detritus b4 it can reach the compartment for LRs in the sump.

If you were to stuff the sump full of LR, the flow would still not be able to get to the inner parts of the rock pile. Plus the "rocks" themselves will produce significant amount of detritus.

[Travy]

why not make use of the SRC search engine b4 asking further, as some of the topics hv been covered many times b4.

HAHA!

Sorry sorry...

Too ganjiong to find outthe ansers lah... Paiseh..

[blueheaven]

I still do not see the practical use of the LR setup at I#ar*a as they place the LR in a compartment where water just flows through them. Isn't this just like a filter wool? And how much time will the bacteria be able to react to the chemicals?

[lightningstrike]

If you were to stuff the sump full of LR, the flow would still not be able to get to the inner parts of the rock pile. Plus the "rocks" themselves will produce significant amount of detritus.

hmmmm....... u hv a point. but i believe the suggested solutions will help to a certain extent. of coz my impression was that the sump is not over stuff wif LRs.

[Travy]

Maybe the LR compartment can be wider and shallower, so as the water will flow thru an almost level surface by arranging the rocks flat on a bed of live sand and not stacking them.

SO at least the water movement will not be compromised.

Rather then flowing in and ard the rocks to exit the chamber.

What u guys think of it? Theory wise for now.

Hmmm i wonder if that would work... Coz i believe if i were to hav a lamp for my refugium it will seriously heat up my water which i tried so hard to cool down.

BUT then again, that will decrease the amount of sand surface area to come in contact with the water... ARgh!!

Back to Square one i guess...

Anyone to ponder with?

[SharkBait]

you will need huge amount of big LR to bring down the NO3. A dsb would function better. Or go for the zeovit system if you have no dsb.

[Travy]

you will need huge amount of big LR to bring down the NO3. A dsb would function better. Or go for the zeovit system if you have no dsb.

My sand bed in my display tank is currently about 3" at the back and sloping to about 2" at the front.

Contemplating the use of AZNO3, but EAN went out of stock...

HAHA! talk abt being 'sway'.

My main idea of having a sump is to increase the volume of circulating water in my tank. So giving me more 'heads-up' time should anything big comes along.

But wanted to find a permanent solution to the NO3 problem as well.

2birds with a stone dudes!