anyone here use a canister for their tank?

[borinz]

bought a canister for my 3 feet tank. anyone can advice wat to put in the canister?

[terryansimon]

do you have a sump? or is the canister the only mean/method of filtration you have, apart from the live rocks?

[borinz]

yes... i really got no space to put sump. think canister is the only filtration method. anyway i got 5 layers in the canister, do i need to use all up?

[Creetin]

u got live rocks? if yes, den just dump rowaphos, carbon and some floss in e canister.

if no live rocks and u are keeping just fish and some easy corals, use some bioballs, rowa and carbon and floss. but please clean ur canister regularly.

wat u keeping? fish/corals/both?

[giantbicycle]

yep...Clean it On a regularly.. you may add,carbon, a little of floss.of bio-balls

[supremo]

hi bro, asked a very similar question here before. Here's a link cause I found it really useful.

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?...=0entry250686

[borinz]

ok. i intend to keep both... so wat is the medias recommanded to put inside?can someone guide me? i got 5 layers for my canister...

[terryansimon]

try to overload your tank with liverocks so as to give it adequate bio filtration capabilities.

as for your canister, you may want to just use have Rowaphos in it. Rowaphos, Polyfilter and maybe Carbon. thats all.

don't bother putting anything else as that would just speed up the process of it being a nitrate factory.

and I must stress. regular maintenance is a must. as to how regular leh, you can ask lightningstrike. hehz.

[marcvelous]

try to overload your tank with liverocks so as to give it adequate bio filtration capabilities.

as for your canister, you may want to just use have Rowaphos in it. Rowaphos, Polyfilter and maybe Carbon. thats all.

don't bother putting anything else as that would just speed up the process of it being a nitrate factory.

and I must stress. regular maintenance is a must. as to how regular leh, you can ask lightningstrike. hehz.

If the main tank is overloaded with LR, it will hamper the water circulation.

lightningstrike has a sump and is only using the canister to supplement as chemical filtration (no offense bro lightning so dun strike me with your thunderbolts ) whereas bro borinz will need to use the canister for both mechical and chemical/biological filtration.

He will definitely need wool and is not feasible to just have polyfilter as the running costs will only make LFS happy.

I am running my tank solely on canister. Share my setup/experience.

General advice for filtration media as follows (from bottom up or top down depending on the direction of water flow; first media is for the layer that comes into contact with water first and last layer is for before water re-enters tank)

1. Coarse wool (trap debris)

2. Coral chips or anything else to promote bacteria growth (try BioHome*)

3. polyfilter or activated carbon wool or any other chemical filtration media or/with BioHome

4. Biohome*

5. Biohome* with fine wool (note fine wool the last layer before water re-enters tank)

In addition, I recommend that you set up a by-pass with a surface skimmer since you are not using sump or overflow system. The by-pass with surface skimmer will help ensure that your water surface is clean. The bypass will help introduce one more water in-take channel to suck water from more than one side of the tank for filtration.

*You can replace BioHome with ceramic rings or coral chips or the likes. Reason I mention BioHome is the increased surface area (means more bacteria and more efficient) and long life of use. Most (cheap) ceramic rings are bulky, less surface area for bacteria growth by volume and have to be replaced average every 2 months (coral chips about 6 months). BioHome can last the better part of 2~3 years. Just rinse with tank water during maintenance to rinse off dead bacteria/debris and use them again! Have to warn you is expensive though so maybe you can start off with only one or half layer of BioHome and the rest use cheap stuff and replace the cheap stuff slowly. Works just as well since you can only introduce LS slowly anyway.

Hope this helps

[borinz]

hmmm. thanks for everyones advice.

[Travy]

Juz a small question....

How does the medium in teh canister contributes to "being a nitrate factory"?

[terryansimon]

by overloading I don't mean stocking up with rocks till every visible spot of glass contains a bit of rock.

add a few extra kilos, instead of the normal recommended level, to give your canister a buffer of sorts.

[marcvelous]

One normal rock or LR weighs much more but has less surface area by mass and/or volume. If the idea is to cultivate bacteria growth, I think ceramic rings or sinthered glass chips provide more surface area. Besides, due to the structure of the chips/rings and the fact hat most canisters are shaded from light, it is more readily anerbolic (wrong spelling but am referring to the bacteria that actively removes NO3) .

Just a quick pre-script. I used dead rocks, dead sand and a mixture of premix and NSW.

Most people refer to filtration medium, especially bio-balls and filter wool, as nitrate factory because they did what they were designed to do, i.e. trap waste and detritus.

If the waste/detritus is not removed from the path of the water, it will eventually break down (think: ANN cycle) and get you NO3. This applies not only to canisters. If you have a sump and do not change the filter wool (often first layer of filtration) you also have the same problem. Given, it is more troublesome to change the wool in a canister than a sump. In fact, if your tank has poor circulation, low water turnover rates, loads of water impediment objects (rocks, etc), the waste produced by your LS and leftover from feeding will more likely remain in your tank and become detritus that decompse/break down right there -- in your main tank.

Detritus/Waste in main tank will decompose and break-down just like they would have in the canister. The parallels are strikingly familiar but we do not hear people conveniently calling their main tanks nitrate factories.

Hope this helps.

abit, if bio-balls are really as bad as they are made out to be, why are they still in production? In fact, most LFS use bio-balls (tonnes of them) in their trickle-filtration systems. IMHO, the product is not faulty, it's the user who doesn't know how to use them correctly.

[Gouldian]

Actually Terrysimon also have a point lah.

A lot of people has been told that if you buy a canister, you will need to clean it 8 to 12mths later, which causes people to have NO3 problems.

I have used Canisters before and I will have tendency not to service the canister cuz, I will have to disconnect piping, carry Canister to the toilets to be drain and wash and subsequently re-install back.

As compared to a sump whereby I only need to remove the wool and add new wool. So initially I also have NO3 problems

But if I service the Canister well ie. if you clean them weekly, I will have no problem with Canister until the last power disruption whereby, I have to cleanup the canister before I turn the power back up.

During the power failure, I could easy maintain the sump and main tank with a air pump. But I can't do that with a canister. That is why some reefers eventually stop using canisters.

I personally have do away with my canisters but I feel that there are always more than one way to skin a cat. Such as the reefer in the state that has a 32yrs tank - he is only using under gravel filter!

[lightningstrike]

regular maintenance is a must. as to how regular leh, you can ask lightningstrike. hehz.

oredi advised borinz on this issue seperately.

lightningstrike has a sump and is only using the canister to supplement as chemical filtration (no offense  bro lightning so dun strike me with your thunderbolts  ) whereas bro borinz will need to use the canister for both mechical and chemical/biological filtration.

hmmm...... shall shove a bolt of lightning up ur @rse!!! joking

true , i m only utilizing my cannister as chemical filtration, the cannister is oso my inflow to my chiller. as for the pathetic sump i hv, all it does is to hse my in-sump skimmer and hide away all the tubings and pumps i hv to drive the FR, CR, KR, etc.

as i hv said, chemical filtration, can go for cannister. biological, Berlin, Jaulbert, etc. mechanical........ IMHO, good skimmer, lots of flow and current in main tank to sweep the detritus off and let the skimmer do the job.

[Gouldian]

Well said. For someone who always believe in Canisters!

[lightningstrike]

Well said. For someone who always believe in Canisters! 

it's not i believe in cannister........

it's bcoz "bo pian", i hv no space for a large sump (Juwel tank).

dun wanna sell the cannister off at a cut throat price. (u know the market for 2nd hand items nowadays)

since can find a use for the cannister to provide chemical filtration and provide the flow into my chiller, why not?

i used to keep a mixed reef, mainly sps and only service my cannister abt once a mth.

[Gouldian]

.

I used to be in the same position when I started my hobby. Since I only wanted to keep SH, a CR Aquarium with back sump supplement with a 2213 was quite impressive liao.

When I ventured into mixed reef, I finally decided to upgrade to sump filtration. Also because, I get sick of servicing the Canister weekly.

[marcvelous]

Actually Terrysimon also have a point lah.

Don't mean to start an arguement but was hoping that the little discussion that we have would help other reefers as well as ourselves by sharing our experiences.

A lot of beginners do not realise the importance of water circulation and hearing what is being echoed about LR, often without much thought, they go out and buy tonnes of LR which eventually gave them problems.

Still, most do not realise the crux of their problem and many others, especially LFS, will conveniently recommend more expensive skimmers, pumps, additives, etc to try and rectify the problem when it could all have been prevented (or even remedied) with a little understanding of the initial setup that would have saved time, effort and money.

I am not saying that Terrysimon is wrong (look at my join date and number of posts, hey, I'm inferior) but without proper explanation, a simple statement could very well be mis-interpreted by someone very new to the hobby.

A lot of people has been told that if you buy a canister, you will need to clean it 8 to 12mths later, which causes people to have NO3 problems.

Sounds like typical advice from irresponsible LFS eager to bump up sales. Fortunately, we have all advised otherwise and advocated regular maintenance. Hope all beginners planning on using canisters heed this.

I have used Canisters before and I will have tendency not to service the canister cuz, I will have to disconnect piping, carry Canister to the toilets to be drain and wash and subsequently re-install back.

As compared to a sump whereby I only need to remove the wool and add new wool.  So initially I also have NO3 problems

I concede that it's more troublesome to change the wool in the canister than the sump (I had a sump setup before). Fortunately, there are valves you can buy to make the process slightly less painful. Also, the new generation Eheim Pro II series is much more convenient with different trays for filtration media than the designs of old. I can only sympathise with reefers who bought the canister without spending a little extra for double-tap connectors.

Main reason people opt for canisters instead of sumps is primarily due to lack of space. Thus, even though it is also better to have a bungalow, many of us still live in HDB flats.

But if I service the Canister well ie. if you clean them weekly, I will have no problem with Canister until the last power disruption whereby, I have to cleanup the canister before I turn the power back up.

During the power failure, I could easy maintain the sump and main tank with a air pump. But I can't do that with a canister. That is why some reefers eventually stop using canisters.

If there's a power outage, how can you use an electric air pump when there's no electricity? If you are talking about battery operated air pump, it should be possible to keep the bacteria in the canister alive with the air pump too. Unless someone can secure for themselves a cheap or 2nd hand UPS. Based on the power requirement for a canister, it should be able to last hours in the event of an outage.

It is again, more troublesome but "No space, no sump; no money, no honey".

I personally have do away with my canisters but I feel that there are always more than one way to skin a cat. Such as the reefer in the state that has a 32yrs tank - he is only using under gravel filter!

Certainly, there are many means to achieve the same aim. There can be no absolute rights or wrongs, perhaps other than wanton buying without consideration and then throwing away livestock that you discovered you do not need or fancy anymore.

[lightningstrike]

A lot of beginners do not realise the importance of water circulation and hearing what is being echoed about LR, often without much thought, they go out and buy tonnes of LR which eventually gave them problems.

This boils down to the basics again. U want DSB? fine. but try not to cover every inch of ur sandbed till there is not enuff surface area for the bacteria to thrive on. U want the Berlin way? fine oso. but make sure u hv enuff LRs to go abt doing so.

I am not saying that Terrysimon is wrong (look at my join date and number of posts, hey, I'm inferior) but without proper explanation, a simple statement could very well be mis-interpreted by someone very new to the hobby.

No offence to anyone, but experience and knowledge is neither accoutable for by the date u joined nor the numbers of posts u hv. so why feel inferior? if someone is willing to learn, another will be willing to teach.

Sounds like typical advice from irresponsible LFS eager to bump up sales. Fortunately, we have all advised otherwise and advocated regular maintenance. Hope all beginners planning on using canisters heed this.

sigh....... dunno which lfs advise to clean cannister 8 to 12 mths later. even wif sump, u need to clean or change filter wool at least fortnightly or monthly.

[marcvelous]

This boils down to the basics again. U want DSB? fine. but try not to cover every inch of ur sandbed till there is not enuff surface area for the bacteria to thrive on. U want the Berlin way? fine oso. but make sure u hv enuff LRs to go abt doing so.

I cannot agree with you more but like I said, so much has been said about DSB and loads of LR that people do not understand or tend to forget their initial aims and needs AND think that DSB should go hand in hand with alot of LR.

In fact, the "expert" advice that I received when I started my first tank (and nightmare) was to have DSB and "A lot, must have lot of LR"

Sadly, combination of DSB and Berlin (LR method) method doesn't work quite so well and yes, my main tank was a nitrate factory from all the detritus within the rock structure. I did manage to remedy my problem and have almost zero NO3 after reducing my LR and improving circulation (which explains the AZ-NO3 that you bought from me).

It does appear that most local reefers prefer DSB, in which case, the LR would have to be correspondingly decreased, as opposed to "more than recommended amount"

No offence to anyone, but experience and knowledge is neither accoutable for by the date u joined nor the numbers of posts u hv. so why feel inferior? if someone is willing to learn, another will be willing to teach.

Hah hah... My bad. Intended it as a satire.

sigh....... dunno which lfs advise to clean cannister 8 to 12 mths later. even wif sump, u need to clean or change filter wool at least fortnightly or monthly. 

If there are products advocating no need for water change for 3~5 years, then certainly there will be LFS who'd proclaim once yearly maintenance for canisters. Sometimes, it's not that they are intentionally misleading customers. It may be that they don't know themselves.

For example, I've ever heard the boss of a particular newly opened LFS proclaiming that the NSW in Singapore cannot and should not be used becaused all the waters around Singapore are polluted . Then I asked him what he use in his shop and he said he use salt mix!!! All S$800+ of salt for one replendishment cycle! Normal LFS average one trip to the seaside every other week, that would mean he spends thousands of dollars on salt mix every month! Last I heard, he quietly switch to using NSW.

P/S: Lightning, you in Japan right? Wah... then your Westie how? Me thinking of getting JRT end of the year, you got time to share your experience?

[lightningstrike]

Lightning, you in Japan right? Wah... then your Westie how? Me thinking of getting JRT end of the year, you got time to share your experience?

pmed u.

[Gouldian]

Great Discussion!

This is how the forum should be like, to provide as many options as possible with all the Pros & Cons taken into consideration and subsequently it is for the initiator to decide what he/she wants.

Marcvelous, dun feel inferior lah. Joining date to the forum does not indicate your knowledge and willingness to share. It is your heart that counts.

[terryansimon]

joint date/posting numbers do not reflect the accuracy of the poster's experience etc.

it may mean the person likes to crap a lot. notice most of my post happens in the kopi tiam?

anyway, I suppose there is no right or wrong in the methodology described in the thread. its like what Gouldian said. many ways to skin a cat. school of thoughts differ widely from people to people. which is why I am a firm believer in having the extra bit of live rocks to be on the safe side. some do not believe in that as the direct trade off will be the cost incurred, not to mention the reduced water circulation rate.

however, circumstances differ from individual reefer to individual reefer. for example, I am a lazy person when it comes to maintenance, and I rarely do weekly water changes feverently. in fact, the last time I did a water change was two months ago. my tank is heavily stocked with fishes *whoops. let the cat out of the bag* and although I have a sump and a mini natural NO3 exporting system, I believe that if it wasn't for the truck load of rocks I have in my tank, I may have faced a problem whereby I have sky high nitrate values/etc.

which is why I am an advocate on having that little bit more of live rocks as a form of insurance. we buy insurances on houses and cars, not because we are pessimistic, but because we want to be adequately prepared should the inevitable happens.

my two cents worth. no malice intended by the way *people have complained that I'm too frank and direct. so..need to clear the air first. (=*

[lightningstrike]

juz me 2 cents,

if u eventually achieve what u want (perfect water parameters, etc) in the end, who cares what cheapo equipment or whatsoever u use. as long as it works.

black cat or white cat, as long as can catch mice is a good cat.