Weaning mandarins

[FuEl]

Would like to share my private "experiment" observations so far. Conducted using 3 spotted mandarins and 1 normal mandarin. So far only left with 2 spotted mandarins. One went into my overflow and got MD55ed. The other one still acclimatizing, the behavior not very normal (does'nt swim around much). Only 1 spotted mandarin feeding greedily on mysis. All fish I choose are bigger than 3cm and smaller than 5cm. I find this size just right for training. An important thing to note when I choose is I look at those with full or bulging bellies.

1) So far I find that the spotted mandarin feeds more readily on frozen mysis compared to the normal mandarin (I should get more to try). My spotted mandarin even chases after falling pieces of mysis. My normal mandarin does'nt give a hoot about the food (He is still fatfat as he is feeding on copepods).

2) I wean them in tanks where I can afford to flood the water with food. No fast eaters or big fish are around to stress the mandarins

3) Mandarins are kept 1 per tank. If you want to introduce them as a group you got to put them in all at once. Maybe when I have saved enough I will buy 5 mandarins at a shot to try. If you introduce more mandarins into a tank with an existing one, I find that the aggression is higher.

4) All tanks have copepods to sustain them should they take time to wean.

Oh well, that's it for now. Time to hunt for more mandarins.

[kareen]

Thank you for sharing your experience..... hm... maybe can get one in my tank to try out

[marcvelous]

Would like to share my experience/experiment as well.

I have a small tank and no copepods (as I started with dead rocks and dead sand). I applied the same criteria on size when choosing my mandarin.

My mandarin is currently staying in a beta box inside my main tank. From the very first day, I have tried to ween it to eat prepared foods.

It has been 3 weeks since introduction to my tank and surprisingly, it is neither thinner nor less healthy. Knowing their nature to just chomp chomp as they swim along, I tried to flood the small beta box with pellets, nori, frozen brine shrimp and cyclopfreeze in order to get them to recognise food.

My twice daily feeding regime as follows:

Day1: Pellets (approx 8, equal to what my tang eat)

Day2: Pellets with cyclopfreeze

Day3: Pellets

Day4: Pellets with cyclopfreeze

Day5: Pellets with nori (nori only evening feeding)

Day6: Pellets with cyclopfreeze

Day7: Pellets with frozen brine shrimp (bs only evening feeding)

My observation so far is that my mandarin will recognise nori and frozen brine shrimp and will eat it almost immediately upon feeding but it doesn't literally attack the food and because of this, I worry for its health if I were to introduce it formally into my main tank.

Also, my mandarin doesn't seem interested in pellets or cyclopfreeze. However, whatever I introduced will definitely and totally disappear after one or two days. I have noticed my shrimps attaching themselves to the sides of the beta box supposedly to feed on the food inside but I doubt they'd be able to reach all the way in and finish all the pellets and cyclopfreeze. I remain hopeful that my mandarin chomped on these.

Getting the mandarin to feed on cyclopfreeze and pellets is especially important as these foods disperse thoroughly or sink almost immediately upon introduction to the tank with good water circulation and even smaller and more timid fishes are able to get their share without trouble. It wll be almost hopeless to expect it to fight for brine shrimp with the tangs.

That's all for now. WIll continue to observe and hopefully report good news in the coming weeks!

[FuEl]

Use mysis. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

[marcvelous]

May I know why would you say that? Did your mandarins respond better to frozen mysis than brine shrimp?

Thought that mysis is larger in size? That was why I bought brine shrimp so that smaller fishes can eat.

Is there anything to substantiate that fishes prefer mysis to brine shrimp?

Very curious and very thankful for your sharing!

[damien]

Thank you for sharing your experience..... hm... maybe can get one in my tank to try out 

Mandarinfish/Dragonets can only be introduced into a well-seasoned aquarium that is at least 6 mths old with plenty of microorganisms and other animals (e.g copepods) found in live rock and live sand. Meanwhile, pls read this:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/../mandfdgfaqs.htm

I strongly suggest that u go for Gobies or Blennies. There're many beautiful species out there if u take ur time to look for it. They will feed on prepared food much easier.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg....=23&TopCatId=23

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.c...=31&TopCatId=15

[kareen]

QUOTE (kareen @ Sep 16 2004, 03:07 PM)

Thank you for sharing your experience..... hm... maybe can get one in my tank to try out 

Mandarinfish/Dragonets can only be introduced into a well-seasoned aquarium that is at least 6 mths old with plenty of microorganisms and other animals (e.g copepods) found in live rock and live sand. Meanwhile, pls read this:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/../mandfdgfaqs.htm

I strongly suggest that u go for Gobies or Blennies. There're many beautiful species out there if u take ur time to look for it. They will feed on prepared food much easier.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg....=23&TopCatId=23

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.c...=31&TopCatId=15

Yeah... I know that's why till now I still didn't buy them unless I know how to coax them to take prepared food like frozen mysis shrimp, frozen brine shrimps, etc, etc

[marcvelous]

Mandarinfish/Dragonets can only be introduced into a well-seasoned aquarium that is at least 6 mths old with plenty of microorganisms and other animals (e.g copepods) found in live rock and live sand. Meanwhile, pls read this:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/../mandfdgfaqs.htm

I strongly suggest that u go for Gobies or Blennies. There're many beautiful species out there if u take ur time to look for it. They will feed on prepared food much easier.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg....=23&TopCatId=23

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.c...=31&TopCatId=15

Mmmm.... I cannot agree with you.

Can you name a fish listed on LiveAquaria that doesn't need a minimum 30 gallon tank?

Even feather dusters or tubeworms and turbo snails are listed as needing a temperature of 72-78°F which translates into 25.56°C!

By that account, and using the converter available in SRC, a 2 x 1 x 1ft tank is only 14.96US gallons or 12.46UK gallons. Does it mean then that no one should own anything less than a 3ft tank with a chiller, monster skimmer, Ca Reactor, Ioniser and MH to boot?

This very thread is started for mandarin lovers to share experiences and methods to ween mandarins (and I'm sure other fishes) to eat prepared foods to ensure their survival despite the absence or depletion of copepods or other natural foods.

Expensive equipment, big tanks or what nots does not equate to a responsible or experienced reefer.

If it boils down to being right, we should just all leave everything where they belong in the Big o'Blue.

No offense!

[dradttg]

May I know why would you say that? Did your mandarins respond better to frozen mysis than brine shrimp?

Thought that mysis is larger in size? That was why I bought brine shrimp so that smaller fishes can eat.

Is there anything to substantiate that fishes prefer mysis to brine shrimp?

Very curious and very thankful for your sharing!

From what I observed mysis seem to attact fishes more. Maybe its because it is more smelly.

[Gouldian]

nah...its not the smell...

brine shrimps are not found from the oceans...they are from a lake which has very high salinity...but mysis is from the sea...i guess thats the reason...

Mysis, especially those sold for Aquarium are actually from Freshwater. That's why reefers likes to use them as feed cuz they dun harbour pest that can harm Saltwater fishes. Unlike brine shrimps whereby there are dozens of reports pointing them as the source of ich introduction into Marine Tanks.

http://www.mysis.com/

[JuzzMarine]

Hi Guys,

May i know any of you guys has keep a mandarin in a 2ft tank for more than a year in healthy condition? And food use is brine, mysis, pellets other than pods?

Getting it to feed on frozen food is one, keeping it alive and healthy is another.

Just curious

[FuEl]

Mysis, especially those sold for Aquarium are actually from Freshwater. That's why reefers likes to use them as feed cuz they dun harbour pest that can harm Saltwater fishes. Unlike brine shrimps whereby there are dozens of reports pointing them as the source of ich introduction into Marine Tanks.

http://www.mysis.com/

There are two types of mysis. One is the normal one sold under the brand Hikari. The other is the more expensive under the brand P.E mysis. If I'm not wrong Hikari uses saltwater mysis. P.E mysis uses mysis shrimp collected from freshwater lakes. If I'm not wrong it has been said that P.E mysis would be easier to digest as the fishes would not need to spend extra energy expelling the extra salt found in marine mysis. I don't feed frozen brine shrimp as I find it really low in nutritional value.

Yesterday I fed my spotted mandarin P.E mysis soaked in Selcon. It ate like no tomorrow. But from this morning till now it has not been swimming much. Just been lazing around and breathing slightly heavier than normal. Hmmm..maybe I overfed it. Hope it behaves ok tomorrow.

[danano]

Fuel, it's only your spotted mandarin that's taking to frozen foods, right? Further, it's in a controlled environment. In tanks with other fish, the timid mandarin wouldn't stand a chance competing with other fish for frozen foods such as mysis.

I am sure it's not your intention to mislead reefers (esp newbies) into thinking that it's possible to keep a mandarin alive/healthy in captivity with manual feeding by sharing the preliminary results of your 'experiment'.

Hence, as Damien shared earlier and as a general guide, Mandarinfish/Dragonets should only be introduced into a well-seasoned aquarium that is at least 6 mths old with plenty of microorganisms and other animals (e.g copepods) found in live rock and live sand. There should be at least 20-30kg of cured quality LR. Only 1 mandarin should be kept per tank. However, 50-60kg of quality LR may be able to sustain 2 mandarins.

[FuEl]

Yep Dan, it was never my intention to mislead newbies. I was just sharing information on the conditions needed to lead to the possible weaning of such fish. Such as the appropriate foods, the right environment, and the right companion fishes.

I'm keeping mandarins without liverock but I have alot of rubble. Then again, my tanks are all high nutrient tanks with tonnes of copepods/amphipods. No huge boisterous fish are kept with them. The mandarins themselves are the largest fish in my tanks.

I personally find that in most reef tanks, reefers are fearful of overfeeding and they do all sort of things to eliminate diatoms, which is essential to have a healthy population of copepods.

Yep, only my spotted mandarin is weaned for now. The common mandarin is not weaned yet but is still fat on a diet of pods. Maybe the spotted mandarin is easier to wean just like how scooter dragonets are easier to wean compared to mandarins? I'll need to do more 'experiments'. In the meantime will be looking for one more spotted and one more normal mandarin for observation purposes. It would be good to find out which mandarin is easier to wean would'nt it?

[nicholasloh]

i think u guys forgot to mention that sand is important too. mine bottom tank has abt 2 inch grade 0 sand, and there is still a large excess of pods even with moxa's red mandarin in it. if no rocks, get sand instead.

[tineng]

Yep Dan, it was never my intention to mislead newbies. I was just sharing information on the conditions needed to lead to the possible weaning of such fish. Such as the appropriate foods, the right environment, and the right companion fishes.

I'm keeping mandarins without liverock but I have alot of rubble. Then again, my tanks are all high nutrient tanks with tonnes of copepods/amphipods. No huge boisterous fish are kept with them. The mandarins themselves are the largest fish in my tanks.

I personally find that in most reef tanks, reefers are fearful of overfeeding and they do all sort of things to eliminate diatoms, which is essential to have a healthy population of copepods.

Yep, only my spotted mandarin is weaned for now. The common mandarin is not weaned yet but is still fat on a diet of pods. Maybe the spotted mandarin is easier to wean just like how scooter dragonets are easier to wean compared to mandarins? I'll need to do more 'experiments'. In the meantime will be looking for one more spotted and one more normal mandarin for observation purposes. It would be good to find out which mandarin is easier to wean would'nt it?

haha...fuel....i buy 1 spotted mandarain for you to experiment on.....then 6 months later when my tank has sufficent pods....you pass it back to be....

you might be able to start a 'fish training' service.....

[Gouldian]

There are two types of mysis. One is the normal one sold under the brand Hikari. The other is the more expensive under the brand P.E mysis. If I'm not wrong Hikari uses saltwater mysis. P.E mysis uses mysis shrimp collected from freshwater lakes. If I'm not wrong it has been said that P.E mysis would be easier to digest as the fishes would not need to spend extra energy expelling the extra salt found in marine mysis. I don't feed frozen brine shrimp as I find it really low in nutritional value.

Yesterday I fed my spotted mandarin P.E mysis soaked in Selcon. It ate like no tomorrow. But from this morning till now it has not been swimming much. Just been lazing around and breathing slightly heavier than normal. Hmmm..maybe I overfed it. Hope it behaves ok tomorrow.

You are right. I have cleaning forgotten about Hikari, it is true that Hikari's mysis is harvested from saltwater condition. It is due to this reason that I have chosen PE whenever I buy mysis. Besides, PE Mysis seems a little larger as compared to Hikari and is more readily accepted too.

Thanks for the correction.

[FuEl]

Update on my "experiment"

-spotted mandarin which was weaned onto frozen mysis and feeding greedily(failed). It died a couple of days ago. Was rather lethargic and breathing heavily the day before it died. Either due to me overdosing phytoplankton to the tank (highly doubt so as my other fish such as yashias are still alive) or probably due to overeating and subsequent indigestion. (possible, it looked like it was about to burst).

-normal mandarin which was not feeding on frozen before (success for now). Now it eats frozen brine shrimp enriched with selcon and frozen mysis (Hikari brand). Not chasing them eagerly like my spotted mandarin though. Only follows them for a brief period.

I'm thinking to try the method of a feeding bowl.

[FuEl]

Good news..now got 2 normal mandarins feeding on frozen brine shrimp and mysis enriched with selcon..too bad the earlier weaned psychedelic mandarin died.. Now hopefully my latest 2 psychedelic mandarins get persuaded soon.

[Gouldian]

Good luck bro.

[damien]

http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/feedin...splendidus.html

http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/feedin...lendidus-2.html

[Volitan]

... Either due to me overdosing phytoplankton to the tank (highly doubt so as my other fish such as yashias are still alive) or probably due to overeating and subsequent indigestion. (possible, it looked like it was about to burst).

-normal mandarin which was not feeding on frozen before (success for now).

Gee, do mandarins overfeed? I am always worried that mine does not eat enough as competition for food is pretty drastic in its environment.

BTW, how long can a mandarin last without food?

[nicholasloh]

juz saw the red mandarin eating Frozen BS, OMG!!!

and i was told that it was feeding like that since 2 months back...

i think after a few months, they juz adapt and feed on BS, without any weaning methods, but pods are STILL critical part of their original part, and will continue to be its staple diet.

[FuEl]

Mine are all chomping down on P.E and Hikari mysis now.

[wilfran]

Hi Bro,

can anyone tell me where to purchase the PE mysis.