Effective Nitrate Reduction Setup

[untouchables]

seems like im forever fighting nitrate levels even with a 6" DSB but only 5 months old so may not mature fully although i can see bubbles within the sand grains.

my sump is too small to put macro algae so im gonna need to do through other means. these are some of the options that i read up but need reefers advise on effectiveness and pls share ur knowledge and experience.

option 1: zeovit

option 2: seachem matrix

option 3: seachem de-nitrate

option 4: denitrator like those fr aqua medic, etc

option 5: others???

cheers!

[nicholasloh]

option 5: reduce bioload...give that most expensive fish to me...

[RockyBoy]

Your dsb not matured yet. Be gentle on the feeding and continue do water change everyweek. My nitrate level is 0 after more than 8 months. Also, invest in good skimmer.

[lightningstrike]

my experience wif

option 3, seachem de-nitrator. piece of junk.

option 4, Aquamedic denitrator, works well, but needs time and patience tuning.

other options never try b4, so no comments. note, these r purely from my own experience.

[FuEl]

Improve skimming and lower bioload?

[typrobin]

IMO, try to use less of those chemicals...the more u dose, the more things u have inside...might be harmful after prolong usage..

i go with fuel and lightning strike...good skimmer and lower bioload

[weileong]

You could try the zeovit system if you're into SPS

[untouchables]

option 5: reduce bioload...give that most expensive fish to me...

bro nicholasloh, bioload reduced to now left:

a. 2 x true percula (this cannot take out cos is for my son), the very reason for a marine tank in the first place

b. 1 x 2" achilles (this lagi cannot take out cos is my fav tang!)

c. 2 x 3" purple tang (these can take out IF ONLY i can catch them!)

d. 1 x blood shrimp

e. 3 x cleaner shrimp

nothing else to reduce liao...

bro RockyBoy, invested into an AquaC 120 liao. other models and type not suitable, either due to space or height restriction or insufficient water holding in sump for beckett.

bro lightningstrike, thanks on the info for seachem denitrator. i almost bought it last nite but decided to wait and see comments on it first.

bro weileong, u use before? im thinking of trying. if dun work, is juz a $32 experiment down the drain. at least it dun need costly equipment.

btw, i stopped feeding my fishes since 1 month ago and is now on a twice weekly feeding. they are surviving on the algae in tank and dunno what else. all i know is that my cleaner shrimps will come and "eat" me whenever i dip my hand into the tank... means they are really hungry???

[thioeh]

Option 6: Add one or two 5-6 inch Giant clam (squamosa)

[weileong]

Clams are not that effective for removing nitrates. If you have a few hundred clams maybe you can see a siginficant drop in nitrates.

But if you had so many clams you might require a giant calcium reactor or dose powder like mad.

For zeovit I am referring to the complete system by captive oceans

Cost more than $32 definately.

You can get an external needle wheel. Then no problem with small sump

[boowy]

Option 6: Add one or two 5-6 inch Giant clam (squamosa)

these clams will absorb NO3?

if can then must get some liao

being changing water everyday for these 2 week

but NO3 still remain very high 80++ haizzzz...

[thioeh]

In natural they do, can help to control abit, but u will need a few not just one. Squamosa clam is the best.

[scarab]

Since you are already not feeding regularly, my advise is to invest on an efficient skimmer. Not sure if you're already using one but Beckett skimmers will be the one of the most efficient one.

Forget about all the S**ch*m things, it don't work. Tried it myself.

Of course a mature DSB will help (guess you just have to wait for it to happen), so in the meantime it's either the skimmer or a denitrator.

I'm not an advocate for addition of chemicals such as A*NO3, as they are a little unpredictable. A more natural means of nitrate reduction is better.

Other than that is you just have to wait patiently and continue with your regular water change. Just celebrated the 1st birthday of my tank, and guess what, my nitrate is finally zero. I put it down to a combination of my skimming and the maturing DSB in my refugium.

[Ancelot]

Other options can be put a lot of MACRO algae in your main tank? serve as food and nitrate reducer but then IT IS unsightly! ok.. i am speaking rubbish..sorry

well.. i think frequent water changes and a good skimmer will help. actually DSB doesnt serve its purpose that fast unless you have the sand from a tank that is actually like 6 years old?? then the DSB will actually reduce your nitrates cause of the presence of de-nitrying bacteria otherwise for now that i wil go with typrobin, fuel and lightningstrike... Invest in a very good skimmer! A worthwhile LONG TERM investment. Also buy quality life rocks! i think eveyone neglected this part cause your rocks are also areas where you can find good useful bacterias around! trust it anot its up to you but for me as far as my memory records, i have heard that two times from two reputable lfs in singapore. and true enough, their display tanks are splendid!

I think right now for your tank, the sump keep it as simple as possible. Look into your main tank as a source for de-nitrfying your nitrate. I personally look up to a lfs cause their tanks are rather simple especially the one as their display. i think there is only like one inch thick of sand in their sump, one inch considered DSB? i dont know..but their corals are radiating with colours. so whatever is your choice its still up to you. i am just a nobody sharing some of the things i heard around.

Good luck to ya..

Lastly, one good recommendation: Travel around the lfs(s) in singapore and take a look at how they manage their display tanks. Always be on the lookout thats how i learn. YUPZ! Good luck and all the best! I hope I had helped you in any way?

[RAV-65]

Other options can be put a lot of MACRO algae in your main tank? serve as food and nitrate reducer but then IT IS unsightly! ok.. i am speaking rubbish..sorry

well.. i think frequent water changes and a good skimmer will help. actually DSB doesnt serve its purpose that fast unless you have the sand from a tank that is actually like 6 years old?? then the DSB will actually reduce your nitrates cause of the presence of de-nitrying bacteria otherwise for now that i wil go with typrobin, fuel and lightningstrike... Invest in a very good skimmer! A worthwhile LONG TERM investment. Also buy quality life rocks! i think eveyone neglected this part cause your rocks are also areas where you can find good useful bacterias around! trust it anot its up to you but for me as far as my memory records, i have heard that two times from two reputable lfs in singapore. and true enough, their display tanks are splendid!

I think right now for your tank, the sump keep it as simple as possible. Look into your main tank as a source for de-nitrfying your nitrate. I personally look up to a lfs cause their tanks are rather simple especially the one as their display. i think there is only like one inch thick of sand in their sump, one inch considered DSB? i dont know..but their corals are radiating with colours. so whatever is your choice its still up to you. i am just a nobody sharing some of the things i heard around.

Good luck to ya..

Lastly, one good recommendation: Travel around the lfs(s) in singapore and take a look at how they manage their display tanks. Always be on the lookout thats how i learn. YUPZ! Good luck and all the best! I hope I had helped you in any way?

actually i tink the sandbed dun have to be 6 years old lah....

U need an area starved of oxygen for denitrifying bacterial to grow and they break down the nitrates....

Good husbandry skills would ensure u keep ur nitrates in check, I didn't know dat until my nitrate boomed!!!

[untouchables]

thanks for all the advise. im already planning on a new improved setup if i start a new tank and this will only happen if i move house so it is now KIV.

i cant fit a beckett into my current setup so i guess the ev-120 has to do the job for skimming.

since i got restrictions in space, both physical and sump, i decided to use multiple strategies until i upgrade tank:

a. cater a small space for caulerpa, which i bought fr coralfarm yesterday

b. zeovit but without the zeobak and zeostart (these are for jump start but my water already aged 5 months so should be sufficient).

c. weekly water change of ard 70l, which is about 20% of total volume, after taking into consideration my DSB, LR, etc.

btw, my phosphate is now 2ppm or lower liao due to azoo phosphate remover, followed by 2 weekends of water changes (20% each time) and now maintained ny rowaphos. can see corals colour improved slighly.

cheers!

p.s.: one thing i learnt from the internet is that sometimes it is better to stop what causes nitrate instead of getting rid of nitrate. for example, the old school of practise is to convert ammnia to nitrite to nitrate. however, the new method is to absord/remove ammonia directly and not converting it into nitrite. however, there should be some backup system to cater for the nitrogen cycle but this can be achieved through 1-2" sand bed and some caulerpa. bulk of the ammonia is directly taken out, not converted. sounds interesting to try

[weileong]

zeobak is not jump start but necessary bacteria for converting nutrients into biomass for skimmer to export it.

zeofood is food for the corals.

while zeostart are food for bacteria which is sort of jump start.

You'll still need a good skimmer to export the nutrients at the end of the day.

If nutrients becomes too low then your caulerpa will crash too.

New school of thought, that is why we use more efficient skimmers to removed the DOC before it even has chance to be converted to ammonia.

[untouchables]

zeobak is not jump start but necessary bacteria for converting nutrients into biomass for skimmer to export it.

zeofood is food for the corals.

while zeostart are food for bacteria which is sort of jump start.

You'll still need a good skimmer to export the nutrients at the end of the day.

If nutrients becomes too low then your caulerpa will crash too.

New school of thought, that is why we use more efficient skimmers to removed the DOC before it even has chance to be converted to ammonia.

bro weileong, seriously speaking... anyone here gets a zero (or negligeble) reading by using skimmer onli? i dun think so cos there is juz so much a skimmer can reduce.

e.g. putting in a beckett or 2 or other good skimmers will only reduce up to a certain level... why? becos these equipment have a limit. more does not mean lower until zero, rather it means faster reduction up to its capability. and i believe beckett, spray injection and needle wheel are up there as the best around.

therefore, we still need supplementary methods for it to go down to zero (or negligeble).

to avoid caulerpa starving, im putting in only a small clump so that it does not deplete the nitrate to zero, thus causing it to die. i can live with negligeble amount... sufficient for my caulerpa to keep alive, yet does not affect my corals, etc.

im still reading up on zeovit. hopefully dun have to invest in the other zeos.

[Ancelot]

actually i tink the sandbed dun have to be 6 years old lah....

U need an area starved of oxygen for denitrifying bacterial to grow and they break down the nitrates....

Good husbandry skills would ensure u keep ur nitrates in check, I didn't know dat until my nitrate boomed!!!

i thought the older the DSB the better it is? A quote: " A ginger that is the oldest is still the hottest"

well.. that would be looking into a plenum system if you are talking about starving the bacteria to create an anaerobic area.... yupz.. am i saying the right things? should be correct la!

[terryansimon]

to avoid caulerpa starving, im putting in only a small clump so that it does not deplete the nitrate to zero, thus causing it to die. i can live with negligeble amount... sufficient for my caulerpa to keep alive, yet does not affect my corals, etc.

make sure you have adequate lighting for them. caluepras are fussy algae in that sense.

mine almost crash because a thick layer of cyano grew on top of it. could see all of them turning white. but two weeks on, it grew another fistful worth of racemosa for me.

another algae you may want to look out for is ulva or sea lettuce. these babies apparently absorb PO4 as well....so I've got a natural NO3 removal agent and a natural PO4 removal agent as well...although I do not have enough Ulva to remove considerable amounts of PO4.

[untouchables]

make sure you have adequate lighting for them. caluepras are fussy algae in that sense.

mine almost crash because a thick layer of cyano grew on top of it. could see all of them turning white. but two weeks on, it grew another fistful worth of racemosa for me.

another algae you may want to look out for is ulva or sea lettuce. these babies apparently absorb PO4 as well....so I've got a natural NO3 removal agent and a natural PO4 removal agent as well...although I do not have enough Ulva to remove considerable amounts of PO4.

how does a ulva look like?

how did the cyano grow on top if sump got water movement at surface?

im gonna redo my sump tonite and put my eheim pumps as external... presto an area of approx 9"x10" for algae. not much but hope it can work. i got a 11w PL light for it right now and should be sufficient, i think.

anyone knows where to buy more of the grapes algae? lfs seems to be out of stock. coralfarm got a few but i chose 2, the lady ask me to take one cos the other one "not good" liao and the rest are almost bare but she cant sell me cheaper so not worth it.

[terryansimon]

the water movement is stifled by the caluerpa poking itself above the water. it isn't completely submerged.

that isn't the problem. at least my main tank has no cyano. so I'm not complaining.

ulva. sea lettuce. urh. go do a search on the forum. I don't have a photo of it.

[weileong]

e.g. putting in a beckett or 2 or other good skimmers will only reduce up to a certain level... why? becos these equipment have a limit. more does not mean lower until zero, rather it means faster reduction up to its capability. and i believe beckett, spray injection and needle wheel are up there as the best around.

A better skimmer with higher turnover will extra the DOC before it has the chance to be convert into ammonia and finally nitrates.

Take a skimmer with turn over rate of 10x the tank volume, most of the DOC will be extracted before they finally gets coverted to NO3. This also must work hand in hand with a higher turn over rate.

You forget abt the function of LR and DSB. Yes they are not able to handle a high amount of NO3 that is why we need better skimmers.

Better skimmer means sufficient size for your intended bioload and water volume. You can have a very small needle wheel which can really clean your water but the turn over rate is miserable 1-2x per hr. End up still lots of NO3 because the excess DOC not skimmed out in time are converted to NO3 and the amount of NO3 produced cannot be effectively reduced by the LR and DSB.

If the nutrients level are sufficiently low, it does not matter how much algae you put in, it will still crash. Algae can only reduce the nutrient up to a certain level, does not matter how much you put in

[weileong]

Maybe let me rephrase it as my english is not good.

I meant that Algae as method of nutrient export has it's limitation.

[YzF]

Anyway to get the zeovit stuffs? Sound good by reading their intro on their homepage..