A LONG HARD LOOK AT OURSELVES

[roger]

Forgive my bluntness but as a infrequent visitor to SRC I can say that there only a few rotten apples that spoil the basket.

SRC is great place and I have made quite a few friends here who I reget that I am the one too busy to carry on toking about reefing.

AT, ignore those who only see the bad things about you that I think they dun know u at all. Its all them listening to rumors and gossip from your enemies... look at the way they talk to you.. so childish and so immature. Every finger they point at you, 3 more is pointing at them. Dun fall into their trap.

If you really get to know the man, he is actually quite nice (toking abt AT).

I have observe that many people who create trouble in SRC are not TRUE contributers to the community, they only come here to MAKE USE of SRC. They only come here to criticise. They are like PARASITES!!! Worse than ICH!

Let them leave and go find their own home somewhere else, it is better for SRC, the only marine forum in SG where the good information is and the good reefers are, all thanks to the founder with the vision and the hard work, all this time, who complaint very little but get the most complaints (from parasites of course).

My 2 rupiah....

Roger

[Siput]

Perhaps come to an agreement on a set of guidelines governing the forum and have all members stick to them. Anyone breaking the rules should be warned (yellow card as per current practice) and if continue to do so, be referred to a disciplinary committee (mods?) and barred - "frined" or "foe" alike? Now that membership is controlled, disruptive elements would find it difficult to get a new account? Just my $0.02.

[flubberina13]

Disunity? When this occurs, minds are changed, hearts are closed and there's no room to add good seeds.

Hidden Agenda...each has their own purpose for coming into this forum...most of us are just here to share and learn. However, some would have gone overboard. Ask your conscience?

Can this really become back the big family where one would trade/ brave an arm and a leg to do things in the interests of fellow reefers? Aiyoh...this is too strongly said, right?

But I really miss the comraderie we had during the BBQ last year...

Is it that necessary not to forgive and forget? I agreed...it is easier to forgive but harder to forget...however, why can't we just take it as a lesson that we have learnt and put it into the inner mind and apply the strategies towards solving it only when the same or similiar situations occur and not keep harping on the negative things that you can't forget... Isn't it a waste of time?

yes, the human brain is built in such a way that at any phase of life, one will experience setbacks, but it is when, you emerge out of it a better person, then only victory and self-satisfaction is achieved. Many of us have 'died' a broken-hearted man or a man with bitterness...

On everybody's mind : Alright...ignore her...she did not tighten her screws again...

Flubby :

[roger]

I think we need to be super strict or super relaxed to please everyone, hahaha! Maybe we can switch months! maybe AT & the mods can take a break and let Acropori and Reefaholics to run the place!! Sorry... its a joke!

Siput, I thought there are already a set of rules & guidelines already posted up for all to see... AT's signature already got state wat.

Some parasites should go to a parasite forum and create their trouble their... now in SRC. No point if they are unhappy here anyway.

Seriously... it is good to be strict about behaviour. Every place got rules. Respect the rules or get out. It's simple as dat!

[roger]

I mean... NOT in SRC.

[jd_n]

Get a life, move on. This thread can hit up to 20 pages and yet still no solution. Since the fault has been addressed, so lets tackle the problem.

No point pointing fingers. All human has their ugly side, some like to hide behd mask, some stubborn insisting he has the right of way, some only take compliments........etc. Well...,tat's life! No one is perfect, coz one simply do not exist.

This forum is a 2way traffic, like it = stay and contribute else be a gentlemen juz say goodbye, no hard feeling.

From wat i see, SRC is a gift to the marine hobbist community. Make good use of it, contribute if u can else juz hang ard till u gain enough knowledge and experience before contributing.

From wat i c, some problem extracted frm previous r

1. Formation of groups. > Well, i dun c anythin wrong with tis. Its juz some fella reefers who get to knw each other and since they clicked, they become frens.

2. Chit chatting. > IMO, i find it quite alrite but chit chattin shd be strictly restricted to kopi-tiam or member's tank spec only. Leave all other section clean as they r for asking and answerin only. And pls answer if only one really knw the answer/ solution. And not think so, i think, i suppose..........

3. Flaming. > Let us not juz hide behd our monitor and think tat we r god, shoot as when we like. Be more self restraining. If one dun agreed, settle it over PM or meet up. Who knws, may ended up becomin good frens. Juz leave the thread clean.

4. Human behaviour (jealous, envy....etc). > Let pple do wat they like, if they have a nice tank and able to spend, so be it!. Knowledgeable or nt, they themselves knw. Like wat i mentioned in no.2 Answer only if u knw and r certain of else keep quiet.

5. AT being the prob...(Biased, showin favourism...). > Well...have ornt, i got no comments but its part and puzzle of life. 100yrs later, its still here to stay. Who dare to claim tat he/she do not or will not in future show any favourism.

Even for me, there r subordinates tat i favour but the bottomline is dun over do it. But i juz wish to say tat, though this forum belongs to AT and he can do watever he like. Lets juz hope tat there r no restriction on any flow of information like before. We r the innocent parties. (one wan to break the law, y get the family involve)

6. Reefers hogging tubs/tanks containing new stocks. > Again, singaporean r juz being kiasu. Wat to do...dun complain and join in. There r 2 type of pple, one who take action and the other who only knw how to complain. Juz say "excuse me" nicely, pple will make way for u, if not they r not fit to be called pple at all

Anyway come_on, its not end of the world if u can't get any nice stuffs durin tis shipment coz its too crowded. There's always next and next and next next next shipment.

Enough of my lou sor...

Above r juz some of my thoughts and suggestion. Add on or suggest accordingly pls.

[roger]

Sorry if I am not serious enough before.

My contribution:

1. Those who dun like the rules & regulations in AT's SRC forum can pack up and go. I think those who are good citizens know that it is a good forum and good place to learn about responsible reefing. I have no problems with AT's style of mgt and I can say he is like a good manager or foreman like in my company. I will promote him to GM because he is a better manager than me... I will just sack any worker who is like some parasites here.

2. Those who stay have to learn how to give back to the club by sharing with other reefers esp. newbies more. Be friendly and respect your fellow men. Keep your criticism about other people to yourself and if you have to criticise, give a humble solution and hope the other fella know u mean no harm or offense. No need to be so proud and make more friends this way. Life is short and reefing is fun!

3. Respect the administration and mods. They are serving us and get paid nothing. As for AT making money from SRC, it is his right to. Coming to this cat and dog industry is very brave and I salute him. Who are we to say how and whether he can make money from his own website? Some people talk without their brains or heart. The mods also do this service and we have to respect them and obey their rules. What's so difficult?

4. Be a nice human being to others and others will be the same to you.

5. We must learn to forgive and forget. Nobody is perfect and you can't expect SRC founder to be perfect so shut up and keep quiet if you have nothing good to say (for his enemies). AT must also forgive and forget to show you are a better person to those who attack you.

6. We must ALL agree together to make SRC a nice place. Agreed? Time to start with you and me and not wait for AT to always remind us.

[Achilles Tang]

Based on feedback, I have deleted the last two threads by Acroporidae and Reefaholic to keep the thread on topic and due to certain implied words that are worded to cause more inflammatory backlash.

Apologies to all.

Acroporidae and Reefaholic, your remarks have certainly been insightful but I recommend you contact me via PM if you have any further suggestions on how to make SRC a better place.

[Achilles Tang]

Roger,

Thank you for your words of support & good suggestions towards building a better community but can I request that you also control your tone a little also?

Thanks!!!

AT

[weisoon]

AT

Can I propose something.....

Delete the membership number and the number of post in each member's profile. This may IMO remove ones' first impression of another reefer who posted to ask some questions. Like for example 'you only have ###### posts and already talking so much.....'

Sometimes senority based identity can back fire.

To be guilty myself, sometimes, I say sometimes when I answer a thread, I do look at the reefer's post and membership number. Wonder how many reefers here also has this tendency or is it just me?

[Achilles Tang]

Hmmm... I don't know how necessary it is to delete the feature showing the history/posting rate of everyone.

Is it really necessary to evaluate how 'senior' the member is and how many posts he has made to see how he conducts himself as a person or to see his motive or to see his contributions?

Looking at how many posts he/she has made is well known to be a poor guage of how we should respond to that person as he/she can make 5 posts of valuable/helpful or he/she can make 10,000 posts of pure rubbish.

Why should these be the gauge of a person and what does it have to do with how we choose to respond to them?

For example, there are really senior reefers like Morgan who is a man of few words and we have many chatterboxes who are nice people too.

If we all got along well with one another and know how to be nice, unselfish and helpful, looking at number of posts/signed up date... are all moot points.

This is my opinion and you are free to comment.

[patrick123]

Wah...this is really a fast growing thread.

To draw on my experience on my previously active forum....it was a koi forum in Malaysia. The environment and atmostphere were totally different. There was an indicator to show the seniority status on each member, but most of the oldest members (I was getting to become one of them until I lost interest in koi) are tasked and seems to be more interested in helping the newbies to get on board, to help them solve their problem. Most of the thread were more constructive on indepth discussion on koi keeping rather than who buy what and where.

The forum was much more friendly and there was no sign of hostility. There was no sign of arrogence and no one showing off their biggest asset. Mind you that in the koi forum, most people own big banglow in Malaysia, and most Singapore members are people with landed property. But there was no sign of errogence like what we smell here in this forum. I guess people once comment that the rich people don't have to show that they are rich right? hehehe

Anyway, since so many people already posted their comment, and not sure how many people will really read mine, so I won't say anymore.

[Nautical]

Let's move on with problem solving or making SRC a better place. Try not to dwell on the past.

Have the following suggestions :

1. pointers to be summarized, like a one or max three liners.

2. AT and his team of mods can consider appointing topic starters to be mods for their own threads. However, AT and his primary mods still hold admin powers.

3. all reefers, please look at your average number of posts per day. as an example, ask yourself, is average of ten (10) posts per day for the last 290 days of a really constructive nature ? or is it merely to talk ^%$#@!@#$% ??

Just me $0.02

there are no right and wrong to everything. no matter how thin you slice a paper, there are always two side.

please contribute positively, if possible. thank you.

[Zero Oxygen]

AT, this thread will never end. I think u have made your point and i believe most people read this thread liao. How about considering ending these thread.

Start a new thread, "How to improve FORUM", allow only positive comments etc.

Those will improve will improve.

Those wont never will, no matter how many thread is being put up.

Maybe for now you be more strict for those flaming thread. Just warn, stop or cancel them, dont need to be too lenient. Those irresponsible people will learn.

Either the hard way or the easy manner.

I remember this thread is to help improve the situation, but i still see someone trying to blame/flame others by mentioning others nick etc. Those people know who they are.

[tineng]

While being a relatively new member, i have seen SRC changed from a informative and friendly web site to a more hostile one with a lot of mindless chit chat that does not really help in promoting the hobby....anyway my few thoughts/suggestions ...

1) Buy/Sell ... i think this is one of the major cause of arguements. I have seen a lot of fire started here...i have 2 suggestions....

a) Close down the Buy/Sell system or move it to a seperate system that has no bearing with the account system here

Maintain a price list of things so that people have a fair view of the 'market rate' of such stuff that should stop interfering with other people sales....I have seen such a list maintained in other hobbist group (not marine related) in Singapore, and it seems to reduce a fair number of conflict...

2) Moderators - I think they are spread too thin and can not effectively manage situation until they gets out of hand. Moderators should also take a more active roles by helping to ensure that a topic stays on track..

3) Also agreed with Nautical that we could potentially get topic starter to manage the discussion that he has started.

4) Finally, in going around meeting people, i have encounter a number of reefers would are very good, experience and have methods different from what is commonly disucss here....but their posting is very very low and mainly when they are giving up and need to sell their old stuff...it will be good if we can convince these 'masters' in coming down from their mountian and help us in providing good and useful information.

[Achilles Tang]

Agree with most of you about looking forward to finding solutions.

I'll start a new thread for members to post positive solutions.

Anyone wishing to comment on exising problems can do so here but in a positive, non-accusing way. Anyone with issues with me persay... pls PM me for discussion.

To lighten the mood, read this!

One fine day, a bus driver went to the bus garage, started his bus, and

drove off along the route. No problems for the first few stops-a few

people got on, a few got off, and things went generally well.

At the next stop, however, a big hulk of a guy got on. Six feet height,

built like a wrestler, arms hanging down to the ground. He glared at

the

driver and said, "Big John doesn't pay!" and sat down at the back.

Did I mention that the driver was five feet three, thin, and basically

meek?

Well, he was. Naturally, he didn't argue with Big John, but he wasn't

happy about it.

The next day the same thing happened-Big John got on again, made a show

of

refusing to pay, and sat down. And the next day, and the one after

that, and

so forth. This grated on the bus driver, who started losing sleep over

the

way Big John was taking advantage of him.

Finally he could stand it no longer. He signed up for body building

courses,

karate, judo, and all that good stuff. By the end of the summer, he had

become quite strong; what's more, he felt really good about himself.

So on the next Monday, when Big John once again got on the bus and

said,"Big John doesn't pay!," the driver stood up, glared back at the

passenger,

and screamed, "And why not?"

With a surprised look on his face, Big John replied, "Big John has a

bus pass."

********************

Moral of the story:

Be sure there is a problem in the first place before working hard to solve one.

********************

Unfortunately, in our case, we do have one and so let's tackle it head-on.

[DeepBlue]

correct...always settle the root cause....not the symptons....

no point fire fighting alone

wow...I am sounding like those management team consultants

[salivateforme]

Wow, I didn't know there is so much politics here. I don't have a super-pro aquarium...on shoestring budget (modest-paying job does that to you sometimes), you see. But I think the enjoyment I get from it is equal to one who has a multi-million dollar set-up. The most expensive fish I have is a yellow tang, costing all of $38.

Lest one forgets, it's a hobby, not a competition. The fun is all in making sure your fish and corals survive captivity.

It is sad if what you say about some forummers here is true, achillis. Makes me a little more wary in posting, lest I be flamed...

Hope this problem's gone away.

[tineng]

wow.....you really into the hobby seriously....reading threads that are nearly 6 month old.....!!!

anyway, welcome and happy reading.......

mod might want to consider closing this thread for good as it might fighten off some of our new member....

[diabolus]

i think this thread should be pin up as a constant reminder to all of us.

and yes, i really missed the SRC of the old, before the big crash on Aug'03.

[williammuk]

... i really missed the SRC of the old, before the big crash on Aug'03.

I agree with diabolus ... so many postings and photos all gone ... so sad.

I also think it is very good to have reefers like salivateforme whom are serious about reading up first ... good for you. Cheers.

[cheese]

AMiTuFu!

[blueheaven]

I feel that I should bring up this topic

Even though some things have improved since AT brought up this issue but things seem to be worsening again

I had always thought that the reason why some people stopped being active is beacuse they could not catch up with the recent bulk of issues but now I really understand the true reason why.

It had been a disparity to me that some reefer's attitude towards me had changed ever since I revealed my age. Somehow, people do have the misconception that young reefers like me would not understand conflicts, egoism, propaganda, etc

I had really regretted being more open about myself as some of my comments are discriminated/looked down upon and claimed as naive.

For those who had been active for quite some time, you would have known how I had been flamethrowed/machine gunned down in 2 of my threads. Although I am not totally right in some of my views but I did learn and emerged better.

However, now I had felt that very same impact that the other pioneers had felt when they stopped being active.

I was actually determined to help save this situation by providing opportunities for reefers to get to know each other better but my spirits are dampened.

Even foreign experienced aquarists had criticised us and are willing to help. But looking at the current attitude, I am doubtful even in the attendance. Maybe I should just call off the whole thing and forget about it.

Being in this hobby had evolved to fighting a war. Before the destruction spreads to me, I'd better get out first

[tineng]

I feel that I should bring up this topic

Even though some things have improved since AT brought up this issue but things seem to be worsening again

I had always thought that the reason why some people stopped being active is beacuse they could not catch up with the recent bulk of issues but now I really understand the true reason why.

It had been a disparity to me that some reefer's attitude towards me had changed ever since I revealed my age. Somehow, people do have the misconception that young reefers like me would not understand conflicts, egoism, propaganda, etc

I had really regretted being more open about myself as some of my comments are discriminated/looked down upon and claimed as naive.

For those who had been active for quite some time, you would have known how I had been flamethrowed/machine gunned down in 2 of my threads. Although I am not totally right in some of my views but I did learn and emerged better.

However, now I had felt that very same impact that the other pioneers had felt when they stopped being active.

I was actually determined to help save this situation by providing opportunities for reefers to get to know each other better but my spirits are dampened.

Even foreign experienced aquarists had criticised us and are willing to help. But looking at the current attitude, I am doubtful even in the attendance. Maybe I should just call off the whole thing and forget about it.

Being in this hobby had evolved to fighting a war. Before the destruction spreads to me, I'd better get out first

don't be dishearten by the comments given by some reefer. Revealing your age is the right thing to do as it give a perpective to people communicating with you and prevent people from jumping into conclusion.

When i started my business, each and every business man i met make that comment 'Wah....so young" when they met me. But its precisely, with this understanding, they are more comfortable sharing their expereinces and guidiance in doing business ....

so don't look at it on the negative side...I'm sure that the age thing will give up an edge when dealing with a lot of reefer here.....

[d88p]

we are all here to learn and share some of our ill experiences.