A LONG HARD LOOK AT OURSELVES

[neokn]

OOOeeeeiiii!!! OOOeeeeeiiii!!!!

Guys don't go too far away from the main Agenda. "Gang" and "Sub-club" is use by me to discribe friendship lah!!!! So it's my fault, pls don't get carry away with the "gang" thing, ok.

*PEACE*

[alanseah]

it's ok that's why most understand what u mean by gang...

[Dispar_Anthias]

OOOeeeeiiii!!! OOOeeeeeiiii!!!!

Guys don't go too far away from the main Agenda. "Gang" and "Sub-club" is use by me to discribe friendship lah!!!! So it's my fault, pls don't get carry away with the "gang" thing, ok.

*PEACE*

yup but gang is like too harsh a word maybe group of reefer ...well keep this thread on topic.... Dun drift away or else will drift away from SRC too

[alanseah]

it's ok... since we all understood will do... let it go.. and continue...

PS: Life so stressful in SG why come into forum and make yourself more stressful... surf, chat, learn and be happy sitting infront of your tank and say "Man.. all thank to SRC if not my tank wont be so beautiful" (Hope these day will happen )

[Achilles Tang]

Ask not what the club/forum can do for you and ask what you can do for the club/forum.

You ALL know what this club is all about... if not please read the Welcome Message. Its not about self but also about others.

Yet everyone comes to the forum for their own purpose and agenda and our character/maturity/motives dictate our actions.

Just ask why ugly characteristics are on the rise and all the nice people have all gone.

Are you part of the problem or are you part of the solution?

As for some of you bringing up the 'commercialism' of this forum.... need I remind again that this forum is privately-owned by me but set up for a public service. This forum has benefited a LOT more people than it has ever benefitted me, monetary or otherwise.

Bear in mind that I have received far more misunderstandings, backstabbings, gossip, outright hostility and sabotage and even faced vulgarities for my efforts in running this club and promoting the reefkeeping hobby in Singapore than any one of you as guests in this forum. I have never said I was perfect but yet the expectations of me are so much higher and I am expected to please every single one out there. Fair or unfair?

I have seen friends become enemies because of sensitivity and gossip. Rivalry amongst individuals cause divisions amongst a group. Competition in trying to make money from SRC amongst individuals has caused immense unhappiness with one another.

My decisions in running the forum as I see fit include forbidding the mention of individuals/businesses which have outright hostility against me and I see no reason why my forum should benefit them in any way! Please RESPECT this fact.

I want to highlight to everyone to TAKE a good hard look at YOURSELVES first before taking a hard look at someone else.

If you can't control yourselves, and you can't be part of the solution for a better community, you are part of the problem. And even those who sit on the sidelines, I believe you have all learnt something in your time here... isn't it time to contribute something back? Not for me.... but for your fellow hobbyists.

Think about that.

[Melvyn Tan]

Perhaps should call those oldbirds (real good reefers) to return to make this a better place?

And perhaps extending business portfolios here isn't really a good thing afterall?

[surfedelic]

The old bird can impart more knowledge into the forum ..... naturally it will take off ... .. no need to bother about gang here and gang there ...... It is only when there is little knowledge pass around that people tend to sit around .. chitchat gossip ..... and form gangs ...

[Melvyn Tan]

The old bird can impart more knowledge into the forum ..... naturally it will take off ... .. no need to bother about gang here and gang there ...... It is only when there is little knowledge pass around that people tend to sit around .. chitchat gossip ..... and form gangs ...

You hit the nail on its head

[nicholasloh]

well, i haf to say that the "gang" behaviour do kick in once in a while. like i've definitely seen ppl laughing at others together. in a cluster.

example: the guy with the huge tangs and expensive prices? 'jokes' on maybe his prata was 1 ft long surfaced and me, a person reading could even sympathise with that guy.

and no, i'm not talking abt being a perfect reefer, everyone has their styles of reefing, i prefer tanks with a bit more biodiversity, some ppl like Zero Oxygen prefer to keep the amount of fishes below the maximum. and thats all our viewpoints. we should accept it if the other person insists on doing so. and the main prob surfaces when a person's view is being rebutted one too many times. anger occurs and b4 u know it, a fight. we, including me, should shut up more i feel. we should NOT force opinions on others. NEVER.

and rumours, thats a killer. i being a seller here, haf of course been targeted with rumours, which i WILL NVR say in my life. note here: my phyto is 10 times THINNER than DT's. get it? so pls dont spread anything at all.

well, plz dun get offended. those are my views and will always be mine. i hope that we, me too, will become more together as a big family, rather than separate cliques like the girls of mean girls. and last point to emphasize. forcing an opinion is down right rude. thx for ur attention.

[bwilly]

I used to post constructive comments and advice for new reefers..

bulk purchase local n oversea (to save some reefers n myself a few dollars)...

I am not sure if this is being appreciated, I can't remember who's who's I helped. I doubt they even bother after they get their stuffs.. all in all, not a single cent I earned.

Back then, being flamed for being ignorance n nasty stuffs..

It does feel hurting when certain "truth" that does show right is just covered (either pride or face).

U dun see my post much these days.. SRC is just one of the many reef forums around, hence I see light when some old reefers goes oversea forum for more intellectual postings..

As for going back to the old ways.. I doubt so. I already seen SRC being infested by many parasites, they just take n take.. wonder they will remember when time for payback.

One good thing is I make a few good kakis (for life hopefully).. some is still actively involved here, good riddle to them, some already left the forum (dunno for good), but we still keep closely in touch with good lobang n help.

[hamannbmw]

i know some good n experience reefers here but nowadays seldom see them posting.... it could be due to work commitments etc etc, however i know they jus feels that its not the same SRC in the past......

[Melvyn Tan]

I think this subject here is kinda good, it lets people pour out - suppression is always not a good thing, it fills you up and choke you, weigh you down.

Let the undercurrents arise, swell up meet the upper currents.....then it'll breathe new life !

Way to go AT (Conrad)

[auberon]

After searching websites after websites for information, I was glad to find the SRC site earlier this year. It was nice to know that there a lot more peopled involved in this hobby that I though. Also that means I can get more information on the equipment and LFS available here. All thanks to AT for setting this forum up.

It was interesting in the begining to read the the threads, gleaning on some new infomation. Learning how other reefers set-up their thanks and stealing a few ideas here and there. Of course it was tedious to filter through the chatter but it was kind of nice to read that the reefers were more or less friends.

But after a while one then to notice it the same few people again and again. Though there are suppose to be 2000+ members, there seems to be only 100+ posting. Where are the other guys? Hope they aren't intimidated by some of the other members and their postings to ask a few questions or start a few theads.

There are a few threads that I have read recently where the member is using just a canister for his marine tanks. Hope more of the guys or gals show their present cos I don't think this hobby should be limited to those who can put up with the prices but also to those who want to start small. I was one of those guys. i had some success and now looking at bigger systems. So i hope the more experience reefers help them out with their small tanks.

There are a lot more things I can say about whats going right or wrong in this forum but rather not repeat again what has been posted.

Lastly, hopefully SRC will continue as a respectable forum where even the guys overseas will contribute and appreciate our experiences here.

[flubberina13]

Ask not what the club/forum can do for you and ask what you can do for the club/forum.

Yet everyone comes to the forum for their own purpose and agenda and our character/maturity/motives dictate our actions.

Just ask why ugly characteristics are on the rise and all the nice people have all gone.

Are you part of the problem or are you part of the solution?

As for some of you bringing up the 'commercialism' of this forum.... need I remind again that this forum is privately-owned by me but set up for a public service. This forum has benefited a LOT more people than it has ever benefitted me, monetary or otherwise.

If you can't control yourselves, and you can't be part of the solution for a better community, you are part of the problem. And even those who sit on the sidelines, I believe you have all learnt something in your time here... isn't it time to contribute something back? Not for me.... but for your fellow hobbyists.

Think about that.

So familiar...

However...BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!

[storm]

well, i haf to say that the "gang" behaviour do kick in once in a while. like i've definitely seen ppl laughing at others together. in a cluster.

example: the guy with the huge tangs and expensive prices? 'jokes' on maybe his prata was 1 ft long surfaced and me, a person reading could even sympathise with that guy.

and no, i'm not talking abt being a perfect reefer, everyone has their styles of reefing, i prefer tanks with a bit more biodiversity, some ppl like Zero Oxygen prefer to keep the amount of fishes below the maximum. and thats all our viewpoints. we should accept it if the other person insists on doing so. and the main prob surfaces when a person's view is being rebutted one too many times. anger occurs and b4 u know it, a fight. we, including me, should shut up more i feel. we should NOT force opinions on others. NEVER.

and rumours, thats a killer. i being a seller here, haf of course been targeted with rumours, which i WILL NVR say in my life. note here: my phyto is 10 times THINNER than DT's. get it? so pls dont spread anything at all.

well, plz dun get offended. those are my views and will always be mine. i hope that we, me too, will become more together as a big family, rather than separate cliques like the girls of mean girls. and last point to emphasize. forcing an opinion is down right rude. thx for ur attention.

Nicholas very well said...although I am not a regular here(and it's a lucky thing).....it's a shame that this "gang" thing even exist and allowed to thrive here....it's pretty obvious when one reefer will rebutt and another will follow suit.....what do you call that "A GROUP OF REEFERS" ......

[Achilles Tang]

Yes Storm, we have brought this up as an issue... so lets stop glossing over this 'gang/group/clique' thing.

We have a waking up to do and solutions to find.

[Melvyn Tan]

Yes Storm, we have brought this up as an issue... so lets stop glossing over this 'gang/group/clique' thing.

We have a waking up to do and solutions to find.

"We" as in the Democratic Society of Reefing Society or the owners?

[flubberina13]

Let me be a parrot...

I echoed AT's sentiments...

In general...this thread is about finding solution to problems and not harping on the problems. Life will never move on if we keep focussing on the problems rather than start thinking of the solutions...

And bitterness sets in when one cannot accept the other's opinions...

[thc]

Took a long hard look at myself jus minutes ago. AND.............

I NRIC NO. S7xxxxxxxC, NICKNAME thc WOULD LIKE TO DECLARE THAT I AM GUILTY!!!

First of all, i would like to apologise to whoever i've offended in past dicussions via PMs or in any thread postings. And also for being a very frank person and straight forward person. SORRY HOR!

Looking thru the hot discussion topic, i've discovered something interesting.

The tendency of FINGER POINTING is still prevailing, isn't the the title 'A LONG HARD LOOK AT OURSELVES'. Shouldn't we be doing some reflecting? Instead of adding more fuel to the fire?? When you point a finger at others, three fingers are pointing back at you.

I have definitely 'shot' at some reefers in the forum and i trully regretted it

But wat is done cannot be undone, but wat i can do is to refrain myself from making the same mistake. Jus my thoughts

Boss, thank you for providing us with this wonderful club/forum/website/home and please......... RELAX lah..(cool down).

[storm]

Yes Storm, we have brought this up as an issue... so lets stop glossing over this 'gang/group/clique' thing.

We have a waking up to do and solutions to find.

Yes AT agree.....couldn't bear to see a good friend of mine totally dissapointed. I hope the solutions and waking up will make SRC a better place to be because there is potential in making it the very best there is.....

[FuEl]

Hmmm...thc is a very nice guy once you get to know him. For people who have certain misgivings against him (I don't really see how that is possible), do get to know him in person to clear any misunderstandings. There are alot of other nice reefers around that just don't post very often. For instance when I offered to give away my 6mm 4ft tank, the person who collected it gave me a bottle of marineplankton as a token of appreciation! I greatly appreciate his generosity! Not to mention some other more experienced reefers (Eg. Dan, scarab, Joe_P, etc)who have been kind enough to let an intermediate hobbyist like me into their homes to oggle at their tanks. People like scarab who has recently posted a useful website that helps hobbyists to identify corals should come forward and share information. It's people like these that make SRC an enjoyable home to me.

However, I'm just as affected as other reefers by the morphing of SRC into a chatsite. I have personally cut down alot on my posts as I do not wish to contribute to anything irrevelant. What irks me most is the fact that people who are involved commercially are going around passing rumours that put fellow competitors down. Also people who make claims that their products are superior to others without even trying the others. What's the point of doing that? What goes around comes around. What's wrong with fair competition and letting the consumers decide for themselves?

I'm rather irked by most things happening here at the moment that I have already found another local forum to hang out. It's not marine related...but at least it's devoid of political backstabbing & kunniangness. Just being frank.

[danano]

The rumours, the hearsay, the gossip, the indiscretion, the irresponsible posting/PMs, the unnecessary/inflammatory remarks, the rivalry, the pettiness, etc, etc... is this what SRC has become? I sure hope not but the signs sure exist.

It's not a money thing, it's not about "cheonging", it's not about who buys what or how much they spend or what equipment they have... why should you/we care? If you consistently think about what others are doing, then you should be taking a long hard look at yourself. If you gossip and spread rumours/stories about others (reefers or LFS) without all the facts or based on hearsay, then you should take a long hard look at yourself.

Here's a call to all SRC reefers... it's not too late to change and make this reefing community a better and more enjoyable place (again)... back to the 'good old days'. And our words and actions should extend beyond this online forum, to the physical world out there as well. After all, if reefing was not something to be enjoyed and shared, why are we all here?

SOLUTION: "Think Twice, or Three Times If You Have To, Before You Act"

[Siput]

Guys, as a newbie, and yet as a member of several clubs, all I can say is that cliques are unavoidable. People need people, and as a result common interests tend to band people together. At the start of any club, the founding members tend to be of like mind, thus the harmony and friendship. However, as more people join, there will almost cetrainly be diffrent opinions, and thus cliques pursuing different areas of interest will form. What can be done about this?

Actually, diversity is the spice of life, thus forming special interest groups in itself is not bad (eg, it is like having a reef club, a f/w club, a planted tanks club, etc - rather than just an aquarist club covering all interests...hope this analogy comes thru clear enuff).

What makes it bad is when special interest groups that are formed start infringing on others' rights - eg flaming others when they do not agree with you, ignoring the good of the whole, etc.

In other clubs, the committee (in sgreef AT and the mods) has to be strong enough to step in to prevent such behaviour getting out of hand. In registered societies, this may involve a disciplinary hearing and perhaps suspension or even expulsion of errant members (in cases of fighting/quarrels that cannot be resolved, for eg). In sum, a set of rules not unlike the constitution of a club may be needed to provide guidelines in the governence of the club.

Too harsh? After all, in any society, there must be rules to live by, else anarchy follows (won't dare say that sgreef has reached that state yet; leave it to the seniors to decide).

The committee can also try to encourage members to interact more rather than hang out incliques; again in physical clubs, this may be by organising events where members may mix freely, but on-line this may be a little difficult.

AT, hope u are not offended by this next and last statement, but perhaps it may also one day be necessary to separate the executive office (yourself) and the committee (club committee - perhaps voted in on an annual term basis - to handle issues like members' requests/complaints, disciplinary issues, working with the executive office to chart possible directions, etc).

As founder and owner of the forum u will find it hard to give up your baby, but it may be better given the need for you to run the club on a professional basis - ie. manage it such that it continues to run for the benefit of the members - and this needs to be separated from the day to day issues like discipline, complaints, etc that u are facing today. Just a suggestion and by no means the perfect solution I know - just food for thought is all.

End of day, it is the members that make a club, thus we must all show a certain amount of respect for others and everyone should bear in mind that this is a social club, so don't worry and be happy!

No offence intended to anyone...

[IcecruncherZ]

Yes AT agree.....couldn't bear to see a good friend of mine totally dissapointed. I hope the solutions and waking up will make SRC a better place to be because there is potential in making it the very best there is.....

I personally feel that potential isnt the issue here. I was here when SRC, or even its predecessor was first set up. Then, there were only a small number of people into this hobby, but yet tons of information was being shared and conveyed through the forum. But it has since morphed into something else quite ugly.

Initially, the weekly LFS report pages ran into the 10s and 20s, with pple keen and enthusiastic to share their information, but lately, the report pages have been getting skimpier and skimpier. Pple have become reluctant to share their knowledge of incoming shipments or even lifestock already in the shops just so that there would be fewer pple chionging the shipments.

Such behaviour can possibly be attributed to the introduction of the member's tanks sections. The droolsome specimens brought out the ugliest in some of us - Jealousy, selfishness, greed etc.. This is not to say that the section should be abolished. Rather we should be more self-conscious when viewing the threads. Some of us here are simply more well off than others, unfortunately, I'm not one of them.

In my opinion, there's nothing more that can be done at this point of time to salvage the situation. The damage done is permanant, us scarred. All we can do is to attempt to cut down on idle chatter, but thats only superficial.

Sincerely hope that the cordial yet semi-formal, knowledge based forum will be reinstated.

[ReDDeviLs]

I used to post constructive comments and advice for new reefers..

bulk purchase local n oversea (to save some reefers n myself a few dollars)...

I am not sure if this is being appreciated, I can't remember who's who's I helped. I doubt they even bother after they get their stuffs.. all in all, not a single cent I earned.

Back then, being flamed for being ignorance n nasty stuffs..

It does feel hurting when certain "truth" that does show right is just covered (either pride or face).

U dun see my post much these days.. SRC is just one of the many reef forums around, hence I see light when some old reefers goes oversea forum for more intellectual postings..

As for going back to the old ways.. I doubt so. I already seen SRC being infested by many parasites, they just take n take.. wonder they will remember when time for payback.

One good thing is I make a few good kakis (for life hopefully).. some is still actively involved here, good riddle to them, some already left the forum (dunno for good), but we still keep closely in touch with good lobang n help.

bro bwilly is right, i have seen him not giving advise or bulk orders anymore compared to the past..

i doubt there will be more than afew reefers that will appreciate his help on bulk orders..

perhaps they might think that they are helping him in the bulk order instead of the other way round..

remember there was once i wanted to give away a moorish idol,than i the next morning the fish died.. i told the guy and instead of feeling sorry for me or the fish, he question me thinking that i did not want to give it to him and wanted to sell it off instead.. what kind of people we have in SRC?

there are times that i see people posting questions but no 1 willing to help.. maybe his question is stupid to other senior reefers.. but since he post that question i guess that reefer needs that help and not posting it for fun right?

sometimes i dont dare to post any questions too..as the question might be ignored.. or worst, being scolded instead of getting my ans..

remember when i first joined SRC,this place is very warm place.. till later.. more politics are surfacing.. no more friendly faces.