FRAGGING OFF from saleable corals...

[flubberina13]

Hey...I know I will become public enemy when I put this across but I am so compelled to reveal even though the parties involved told me to forget it...

Was talking to a lfs owner and this is what he has to say...

The previous night, they have already 'cleaned' up and maintained the tank awaiting the onslaught of reefers come this weekend. So all frags or debris have already been cleared or thrown as deemed fit...

However, the next day when reefers patronised ther shop and they were so eagerly packing for customers, some reefers had actually FRAGGED off some small pieces from their selling stocks and asked to be given saying that they found the frags!!!!!!!!!!

And he even say that he associated this reefer with SRC as the latter ever mentioned that he came to know of the shop due to SRC...OH NO!!! BAD PUBLICITY!!!

I'm wondering if this reefer represents the whole of SRC? If so...he'd better watch his actions and words..

The owner was kind enough to consent although he was feeling curious as to why there would still be frags left over...

My stand is...

1) You could have just asked the owner to frag for you.

2) They also got a business to run and family to feed although you may say...what's a frag to him compared to his earning from the sale of that coral.

3) I know I have a thick hide to 'haggle' over prices but I feel that you have a thicker hide to have done those acts...

4) I know asking is free unless you are asking a lawyer but....you should only ask if there're genuinely frags...I ever witnessed Weileong doing so and saw the lfs people just passed to him through their own hands and not picked up from the tubs or tanks...

5) I am markedly disappointed with this reefer although I am of no relations to him.

6) lastly, where is your INTEGRITY? How can you do such thing!!!???

Sorry if I put you in a defensive mode but I really wan to say my piece. Apologies if offences have been created.

Okay...now I brave myself for the attacks that are to come...

Or maybe...to redeem yourself, buy more frequently from that shop lor...you will know which one I'm talking about...

Give them more revenue too...I know the lfs owner will chide me for revealing this but...I bare them no prejudice whatsoever the consequences may be...

Btw...Boss...sorry for selling dirty laundry in this forum as he associated it with SRC member and I do considered myself as one.

[weileong]

Oh that time in that LFS har? The owner was fragging and throwing away those frags and I saw it and thought real waste so I asked if I could keep those that he is throwing away cos he said they are bad.

So the owner kindly gave them to me and even packed them for me. The frags are doing well in my tank and the exposed skeleton have started to encrust and polyps growing already.

whoever the fellow reefer is...you should reflect on your actions.

For just a few dollars why do that right? hiak.......

[bwilly]

oh, I seen it done b4 at one shop.

but the fellow (old man) was not fragging it.

He just told some crumbs of yuma n dump into pail with some other stuffs, n ask the LFS to give it free.

Me n fren were talking to each mimick him.

"wah lan.. u go frag tat one, ask for free too.."

at tat age, acting like a kid n a "theft" at it.

come to it, if the matter is brought to the LFS owner, n he pai sei to rebutt, its at a disadvantage to u. Owner never kpkb.. so ah.

plenty of this guy of ppl ard, I have never associate with them much.

not only this kind of behavior, but many many many eg..... Zzzz...

~ weileong, never point out ah.. who tis bar bar black sheep hairy hairy woah..

[flubberina13]

And those in the known, pls refrain from unneccessary trouble by keeping all facts 'ambiguous'...

You can 'protect' yourself...

[blueheaven]

well, i ever seen 1 guy trying to get this anemone to stick to some big LR and told the owner that he wanted only the anemone. In the end when i ask the owner, he said no choice but to sell him the anemone ($10) with that huge rock

Talk about integrity

[Golden Tooth]

Wonder how those guyz feel by doing that kind of nonsense.

[hamannbmw]

I would like to mention something which it may not be appropriate in this thread.....

I went to a reputable LFS (which i always frequent) they always bring in mostly hard corals n SPS. I bought a coral but the price abt steep, cos i know the approx price for that. When i ask for a discount, he said sorry i cant give u any discount cos SRC people is spoiling his business by fragging. I decided to ask him further, he said : I sell u guys coral at (eg. $40) , u guys go n frag into 6-10 pieces den sell to fellow reefers at (eg. $10) per frag... HOW AM I GOING TO DO BUSINESS, u guys r making all the profits with no overhead cost....

At last i still bought that coral........... My question is : IS FRAGGING N SELL IN SRC PROHIBITED HERE

Sorry for my ignorance

[ReDDeviLs]

surely its an SPS frag we are talking about here.. and base on bro hamannbmw if all lfs thinks this way,instead of getting better treatment and discount for SRC memebers,but extra charge and lousy treatment by them the lfs owners...

PLEASE DO SRC PROUD! and not DISGRACE!

[FuEl]

People who buy frags have their reasons. Frags might be more stable. Frags take up less space. You can have more varieties by keeping frags. Some people like to see colonies grow from frags (me for instance)..Even if no one frags sps for sale, potential buyers (with little space left in their tanks) who know each other might share a single colony. Frags come from mother colonies. Without mother colonies there will be no frags. So I seriously don't see why LFS should be so bothered about the availability of frags affecting sales. Be realistic...which sps keeper won't know how to frag a sps? LFS can always approach local fraggers to supply them directly if they want to lower risks & money thrown in for the supplies. Just look at the U.S market...fraggers are commonplace...it's only a matter of time that sg follows and LFS have to learn to accept it. There will be overheads even for fraggers. Just think about the money spent on the electricity bills and the $$ spent on calcium media..& not the mention the time taken to provide TLC to every single frag.. nothing is for free in this world. There is nothing wrong with fragging. It's like taking stem cuttings from a tree. What is wrong? You're not killing the tree..you're just helping it to propagate it. If captive propagation by reefers is wrong, alot of other things in this world would be wrong. Reality check!

[Creetin]

agree with Fuel.

unless the guy buys e colony to purely frag and sell for profit - to me that is surely unacceptable. but if he buys and it grows, surely he can decide to frag and sell off, thats very acceptable.....

[Achilles Tang]

Agree with fuel too.

Its stupid for any LFS person to feel that he doesn't like to sell corals to people who eventually frags them. So how?

When your SPS colony grows too big and you have to prune it to prevent inter-coral aggression, you throw the frags away?

I think its up to the reefer to decide if the money spent on lights, calcium additives, skimming etc would be calculated into the cost of growing the coral and therefore the price of the frag! Compared to softies and LPS, keeping SPS corals is NOT cheap. What's the problem in selling frags and that's the discretion of the reefer anyway.

I don't hear any pet shop people saying: "Oh, I won't sell my hamsters to people because they will breed them and then sell the babies and then I lose business"!!!

If there are people buying corals to frag immediately into many pieces and then sell these pieces just for immediate 'profit'... that person is mad but I have not seen anyone do such things yet. Anyway, most of us in the reef club know each other and would be able to spot such people in a flash.

When corals land in the shops, most of them are stressed enough already... if it doesn't RTN immediately, fragging it within a very short time MAY cause even more stress leading to the loss of frags/the colony itself.

But luckily, I think most of us treasure the specimens we pick up and would like to grow them until they overgrow.

From our experience, most people frag their corals to save them and regrow them when RTN happens and the colony is about to be lost.

Flub,

As for reefers who purposely break off frags from colonies just so that the LFS will give it to you... SHAME ON YOU!!!

Putting myself in the LFS shoes... I can understand their frustration in this matter.

Perhaps that is why a "hands off policy" by LFS may be good to protect the corals from damage... intentional or unintentional. But it will be hard to implement.

[danano]

Fuel, Creetin, AT... spot on, my sentiments exactly.

[roidan]

sigh, if we can spend money in terms of Ks for our system, livestock and corals...

what is spending a little more to buy a complete specimen?

like boss said...

"When corals land in the shops, most of them are stressed enough already... if it doesn't RTN immediately, fragging it within a very short time MAY cause even more stress leading to the loss of frags/the colony itself."

end up doing injustice to the next reefer who unfortunately buy the parent colony....

to really find broken frags on the tank floor and request for it to be given free, may be abit thickskin, but it's perfectly within moral limits....

but to purposely break off a specimen, that's in a different league

[hamannbmw]

Yes, agree with u guys. Fragging of coral still carries a risk, therefore i dun think there's anything wrong with fragging and sell to fellow refeer especially with the time spent and other additives.

this guys really talk NUTS, I mean the LFS owner SUCKS

[Joe_P]

I think frags breaking off from mother colonies is something rather difficult to prevent especially when you have more than 10 pair of hands "caressing" those stuff in small display tanks....

Well, I don't agree to reefers who break off frags from colonies for sale so as to have freebies cause that is the equivalent to cheating.. but IME, keeping colonies intact many times due to much handling esp in a "coral grabbing frenzy" is rather difficult..

A no hands on policy is also gonna be difficult to implement as that might simply slow the sellin process down and turn off the buying response from crazy reefers...

There will always be some broken stuff around once too many reefers get involved...

[flubberina13]

Aiyoh...sps are so fragile?

In that case, sps reefers should be educated to handle these gems more 'delicately'...to prevent further damage...IMO...

Fortunately I'm not interested in sps and only lps and shrooms.

But the down side is...you can't get frags of lps so easily...

Otherwise I will have a tub full of lps frags liao...

[bwilly]

I thought I saw someone who did that at a LFS recently posted here..???

buay pai sei.....kaoz..!

anyway I did not seen the incident and will keep the name to myself..

[planetg]

great. i see a couple of issues mentioned here.

think i'll just speak whatever i feel is appropriate.

FRAGGING AT LFS

it is a total disgrace when someone actually does that at any lfs for personal benefits. i do not agree that many hands will screw up the colony into pieces. unless dropped from heights. i see that generally reefers are pretty careful with such expensive items. what are u gonna do with small frags? culture them in our tank and wait for them to be sizable to frag and resell? please lah. if someone can do that, might as well buying the larger colonies for instant gratification/returns. give these lfs a break and some respect. STOP THIS NONSENSE!

HUGE SUPPLY OF SPS

i'm glad that more shipments of sps are beginning to reach our small island. it does benefit consumers like us. we have more choices and it'll hopefulyl instill more competivite pricing and better customer service. i'm not being 'gian png' by that statement but i'm really pretty sick of hearing abt the high risks and low profit excuses. it's all abt huge demand with low supply. i understand that price tag previously but i do thing lfs shd be acclimatizing to market conditions as we prepare to spend more on quality pieces. maybe i'm wrong but we do expect better service actually.

FRAGGING TO SUSTAIN HOBBY

who can blame reefers for fragging and sustaining the hobby by selling/exchanging frags. no LFS can stop that. please be logical. as long as the lfs gets good supply of sps at reasonable price, we will still make the purchase right? there are many ways to make customers happy. i for one have been greatly disappointed by some but will still continue to support in hope for a change in attitude. no choice right if that lfs has good stuff!

hope these statements don't overpiss some people. it's my point of view and maybe i do echo some other reefers thoughts too. else just treat this reply as BS and wipe it off pls.

[flubberina13]

Welcome to the gang...

The ostracised ones?

What we just wanna do is...for the eyes to see what they should see, for the ears to hear what they should hear, for the mouth to speak what they should speak and for the brain to digest what they should digest and lastly for the conscience to be fed what they should be fed...

Though situations may turn sour and we may have to put ourselves on the chopping board but who cares...

There will always be greener pastures...

[Achilles Tang]

Hahaha.... you mean more of you have felt the need to join this gang? ;)Service cannot be forced if the personality of the LFS owners are like that.

It has to come from the heart and true sincerity is often recognized rightaway, anyway if they can't, well just fake it then.... and you can still keep customers coming back... and not just because of livestock coz other stores can have good stuff too... there is no monopoly in this trade.

Keep smiling... even if it requires you to put a banana in your mouth (but with the curve the right way up!)

[flubberina13]

but excessive sensitivity will also spoil the soup...and I just simply meant the gang who likes to be vocal...nothing else...

Hur? what are I talking here?

Okay...I go tighten my screw first...

[alvy]

bwilly: Just post the name of the culprit here lar! I'm not into SPS, but I'm really interested to know who that downright cheapo is! I applaud him for his "thickskin" and persistence in being "thrifty" and i think he is "stinkier" than my skimmate!

[flubberina13]

bwilly: Just post the name of the culprit here lar! I'm not into SPS, but I'm really interested to know who that downright cheapo is!   I applaud him for his "thickskin" and persistence in being "thrifty" and i think he is "stinkier" than my skimmate!

why you ask Bwilly?

Ask me mah...

I got juicier things to say...

Oops..am I saying I am a BBC station?

Anyway, I was never ranked third nor sixth...

Just an ignorant old hag...talk too much and know too less

[alvy]

why you ask Bwilly?

Ask me mah...

I got juicier things to say...

Oops..am I saying I am a BBC station?

Anyway, I was never ranked third nor sixth...

Just an ignorant old hag...talk too much and know too less

let's not talk about LFS and wat they should or should not do. It's their business, they can do anything they want..and we the consumers likewise can do wat we want with our livestock. let's get back to the main topic of pointing out that son-of-a-rotten-frag! so who is he/she?? ah pek/soh or kiddo also never mind..just name him/her and let him defend himself - "er..no i din frag the colony lah..you saw it wrongly, the colony really likes me and decide to break off her precious branch for me to bring home-FREE!"

[planetg]

"er..no i din frag the colony lah..you saw it wrongly, the colony really likes me and decide to break off her precious branch for me to bring home-FREE!"

haha. that's funny

you're right. all LFS have every right to run their store the way they wish. we consumers will just decide and play our loyalty cards accordingly, that is if someone deserves our loyalty.

seen enuff, felt enuff.

as for that culprit, give that guy/gal a break. he/she will never have any balls to admit in this forum. please whoever the culprit is who reads this, spare us the explanation talk. we all know who u are. dun ask me to reveal. i'm not that stupid to be a puclic enemy

let the word spread!