Advice needed for starting new

[viper0419]

Hi Guys,

I am planning to start a reef tank hence need some advices.

Size of tank not exceeding 2feet. Prefer AIO instead of sump for ease. Budget is around $2k (excluding others stuffs like Corals + Live Stocks, RODI, etc). 

Was researching and found that based on my budget, the 2 options will be :-

1. Red Sea Max Nano + Hailea chiller 

Pros : Nice looking, plug and play

Cons : 45cm tank size. Have to do everything from scratch which I am willing to do but worried about not knowing how to (current experience is only freshwater). 

 

2. Some aquarium offered to customize AIO tank 

Pros : 60cm tank size. Guidance from shop on how to setup hence gentler learning curve.

Cons : Not as premium looking as Red Sea products. Premium price for setting up.

 

Can offer me your advice on which is a better choice? Also if any recommendation of shops that is really patient and helpful please recommend as well. 

Thanks in advance.

[dtdream]

Hands down go Red Sea. They have thought about everything regarding overflow, pipe diameter etc. Quality dollar for dollar is also much better. eg. the glass quality.

For custom, you still need to think about details which you may not be familiar with especially if you are new. May have hidden cost too.

[dtdream]

Patient and helpful is heng suay. Just avoid a shop in the west please (they will push their own stuff on you).

Just go during off peak hours most shops should have more time to help you.

Personally, I like SAS, ABA and FnM. But I've seen (luckily not me) the very occasional "bad service" towards others from those shops also la, but they also human ma right.

Alternatively ask your questions on the forums, most reefers here are friendly and will be happy to chime in.

 

[Tabungrahim]

Why not u customised in Couresell or tank maker in Couresell have ….


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[viper0419]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:52 PM, Tabungrahim said:

Why not u customised in Couresell or tank maker in Couresell have ….


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Thanks for advice. But I am not really keen to customize a tank at this point. Rather get one that is standard factory made to save all the hassle of thinking of piping, different brands of parts, etc. I know that's the dream of many experienced reefer but as I am just starting out, i rather focus on what's in the tank rather the equipment.

[viper0419]

I've basically narrowed it down to Redsea Max Nano or Redsea Max E170.

The difference between the 2 in brief are as follows :-

a) Max Nano - 17Gal of display volume in 45cm x 45cm x 45cm display tank. Red sea 50w light

b) Max E170  - 37Gal of display volume in 60cm x 57.5cm x 55cm display tank. Red sea 90w light

The difference in price between the two is $850. 

Question : Does the increase in size and light wattage warrant the $850 premium?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[dtdream]

9 hours ago, viper0419 said:

I've basically narrowed it down to Redsea Max Nano or Redsea Max E170.

The difference between the 2 in brief are as follows :-

a) Max Nano - 17Gal of display volume in 45cm x 45cm x 45cm display tank. Red sea 50w light

b) Max E170  - 37Gal of display volume in 60cm x 57.5cm x 55cm display tank. Red sea 90w light

The difference in price between the two is $850. 

Question : Does the increase in size and light wattage warrant the $850 premium?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

It really depends on what you want.

For example, if you just want a few small fishes like a couple clowns and maybe a few simple corals, then you don’t really need the extra volume and light.

If you want to keep more fish, especially slightly larger ones (but still not the largest), and bit more challenging corals, then yea the extra premium will be “warranted”.  

But if you already considering the E170, why not just go for the 170 with the sump? Sump will be much easier to maintain than AIO actually. It looks cleaner since all your filtration will be below. And with more water volume, system will be more stable. There should be an ATO too for the sump version, which is quite important imo. And.. if you need to change or upgrade anything (eg. Your skimmer), you’ll have more space to do so. 

BUT, if in your mind this is just a training/play play tank and looking to upgrade to an even bigger tank next time, like reefer 250 or 350 or even custom, then I suppose you can get the smaller one to play first. But I guarantee you you’ll most likely upgrade within the year. 

[viper0419]

2 hours ago, dtdream said:

It really depends on what you want.

For example, if you just want a few small fishes like a couple clowns and maybe a few simple corals, then you don’t really need the extra volume and light.

If you want to keep more fish, especially slightly larger ones (but still not the largest), and bit more challenging corals, then yea the extra premium will be “warranted”.  

But if you already considering the E170, why not just go for the 170 with the sump? Sump will be much easier to maintain than AIO actually. It looks cleaner since all your filtration will be below. And with more water volume, system will be more stable. There should be an ATO too for the sump version, which is quite important imo. And.. if you need to change or upgrade anything (eg. Your skimmer), you’ll have more space to do so. 

BUT, if in your mind this is just a training/play play tank and looking to upgrade to an even bigger tank next time, like reefer 250 or 350 or even custom, then I suppose you can get the smaller one to play first. But I guarantee you you’ll most likely upgrade within the year. 

Good question.

I agree that based on what I've read, most will say that the sump at the bottom will be more ideal. However, I am concerned about the following :-

1. 2 foot tank with sump at bottom means chiller have to sit outside. 

2. If I get the reefer 170 with sump at the bottom, I will need to then get the following separately - skimmer, light, pump. I have very limited knowledge to get one that is good enough that will not burst the bank account. 

I did toy with the idea of custom build a tank to do the above, but most place work out the sum to be around the price of getting the Max 170 with questionable parts (e.g. lights, skimmer, etc). 

I am hoping that this tank, if done successfully can last me about 3 years? If the result is good, I think the family will be more acceptable of a bigger tank? lol.

[dtdream]

Actually, it is recommended that you still put chiller outside in any case, regardless of AIO or Sump. Cuz if you put in the cabinet, circulation not so good, so the chiller is not as efficient and will kind of shorten the overall lifespan of the chiller. BUT, I do understand the aesthetic issue, it does look much cleaner inside the cabinet, so just have to monitor closely.

I see your point on the other items. Yea I suppose if you want an almost fuss free plug and play system, then the Max Nano or E170 would be ok. But as mentioned, you could consider the innovative marine set ups, they are pretty good systems too. 

Anyway, if its between the Nano and E170, the question you gotta ask yourself is just basically how many and what type of fishes and corals you wanna keep. If you want just a couple clowns, just go small and learn from there. But if you want a tang or something, then better to go for the bigger tank. (But for tang depends on the type also, you definitely don't want to put a Naso even for the 170).

[JiaEn]

I would suggest going for a tank with sump as well. You will be able to slowly understand more about piping and overflow.  You will also have a bit more space to experiment with different setups. 

@dtdream is absolutely right about the placement of chiller. Good ventilation for the chiller not only make it more efficient, it also prolong the chiller's life-span. 

 

When the skimmer and pumps are concerned, there are many affordable and reliable options. In fact, a cramped space of a IOS tank is a much bigger compromise. 

 

[alexcyf]

Actually, I think customised tanks are less costly than redsea tanks, just need to get a good tank maker. I did 2 display tank (6 footer + 5 footer) and a 5 foot sump at twice ur budget only.

Although you will definitely make some decisions on the design of the setup, you have Reefers here to help.

And yes, sump over IOS. If not you will be looking to upgrade soon..


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[Gabriel Ng]

chipping in my two cents..... currently have a nano tank with ios for abt 8 months. Definitely regret it to this day. Just waiting for a chance to upgrade soon. Main reason is the limited real estate.

A nano tank definitely got me going in this hobby and i have learnt alot from it. But if you are anything like me, a few months down the road, confirm be itchin to upsize. The sunk cost for a nano tank isnt worth it


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[leovin13]

Hi, i just got a waterbox 20. Guess it's similar to the red sea reef nano tanks.

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[dtdream]

@alexcyfyea but OP sounds like he want's plug and play from original post. His budget include tank + equipment etc (light + skimmer). The reefer systems he mentioned include light + skimmer (albeit Red Sea ones, which are good enough I suppose, but I think we can all agree there are better and cheaper ones). 

Btw, I've seen alexcyf tank in person and it really is quite impressive. So if OP you end up wanting to do custom, take a thick notebook and take as much notes as you can from him!

Anyway @viper0419, all the bros above providing good advice and I agree with all of what they said. But keep in mind we are all pretty much addicted to reefing here. There are other people who dislike and quit the hobby but their voices are not heard here for obvious reasons. If you have a budget, especially if you have a "boss" around, try to keep within it (even though you most probably won't). Remember, happy wife, happy life.

Btw, you can also consider getting a used tank and/or equipment. If you don't see anything you want in buy/sell forum, just be a little more patient. The benefit of going used is if you end up not enjoying the hobby, did not cost as much. Btw, for new Red Sea most likely you'll have to wait too, I waited 2 months for mine.

But if you are set in your mind to want to go new, that's fine as well. Just keep in mind what the other bros have said above. With AIO you will be ready to go pretty quickly, and save you some time thinking at the beginning, that's the only benefit I see. But if you end up loving the hobby like the rest of us here, you're going to outgrow it very, very, very quickly. That's the risk you are going to take with AIO. Tanks with a sump, you will need to think abit more on equipment at the start, but it provides more flexibility and should last you longer. 

But hey, I think above all will agree, if you end up loving the hobby, I guarantee you are going to upgrade whichever choice you choose now anyway, lol. 

[viper0419]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the advices. They are all very sound and are real food for thought.

Guess the end result I am hoping for is more corals and perhaps selective "beautiful" fishes. 

I understand fully on the itch that everyone is saying as I have some experience on this with freshwater tanks as well. But so far only kept it within 2 foot. The choices of what I can do is really limited I admit and after sometime, it can get boring.

I definitely will not be going 4 foot and above in the near future as really lack the space (just don't see how). However, anyone has good tank maker can share recommendation too.

Based on what I've researched, you need minimum 3 foot to have a meaningful sump at the bottom which at least has ATO and maybe space for refugium. I am not sure if I can stretch my 2 foot to 3 foot. One advantage of the Max 170 is that they have built in capability to upgrade to a sump at the bottom in future if desired so. But the real estate at the top remains the same. 

Budget is another constraint. I've calculated that based on the current setup which includes :-

1. Tank Set including skimmer & light.

2. Chiller + pump

3. Additional Wavemaker

4 RO/DI 

5. Start - Live Rocks, Sand, Salt, etc

All adds up to approximately $3.5k. I spoke to a few places and they told me that custom built a 2 foot tank including the above stuffs of similar quality will add up to that kind of amount as well. Please correct me if I am wrong ? If its possible to built one below that or even a 3 footer based on this budget, I can certainly think about it.

Like Dtdream bro say, Red Sea gotta wait 2 months... kind of a killjoy.

Lastly, I find this researching and taking advices a very enjoyable part of this hobby so thanks very much for all the inputs!

Edited October 21, 2021 by viper0419

[dtdream]

Just a couple of other misc things for your consideration:

1. If you have to wait for your new tank, you can start to cycle your rocks first while waiting so you can shave off cycling time. Just put them in a tub or something with salt water and add an ammonium source. Adding bacteria is recommended but not strictly necessary. Just make sure the tub is clean and preferably not exposed to soap, etc before.

2. For return pump, go DC, not AC. Better controllability and far, far quieter. Only imo relatively more expensive than AC. Just buy DC and thank me later.

3. If you go custom, I'm not too familiar with custom makers nowadays, so other bros can help on this one, but please ensure you will are making apples to apples comparison. Which is that Red Sea uses an "ultra clear glass", I think the custom equivalent is "sapphire glass" (again other bros please correct me if I'm wrong on the name). But yea, not all glass are equal, and its a big part in the cost of a tank.

[viper0419]

Just an update.

I pulled the trigger today as I managed to find a shop with the Red Sea Reefer 170.

Tank set + Radion XR15 + BM C3.5 skimmer + Pumps + Filter media all come up to same price as if I get the Max E170.

Shop owner told me worth it cos sump at the bottom and the light is good.

Important is got stock so I just have to wait 2 weeks max I think.

[Gabriel Ng]

congrats man. enjoy the tank


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[viper0419]

6 hours ago, dtdream said:

Just a couple of other misc things for your consideration:

 

2. For return pump, go DC, not AC. Better controllability and far, far quieter. Only imo relatively more expensive than AC. Just buy DC and thank me later.

 

Arrggh.. seen this too late. Gotten a Nyos Viper 2.0H. I don't supposed it is a DC pump?

[viper0419]

13 minutes ago, Gabriel Ng said:

congrats man. enjoy the tank


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Thanks bro!

[peedeers]

Deleted

[dtdream]

35 minutes ago, viper0419 said:

Arrggh.. seen this too late. Gotten a Nyos Viper 2.0H. I don't supposed it is a DC pump?

I'm not sure, doesn't look like it. But maybe ok la, I've not used Nyos before but should be a fairly decent brand. Unless you can call the shop to change since I guess not delivered yet? I have a Reef Octopus Varios 4 and Varios 2 which I really like and will recommend if you have the budget for it. But if not, read that the Jebao MDC ones are pretty decent too. Think there is a newer MDP one as well.

Congrats on your new tank! Happy days.

[NoobieHobbyist]

Yes I think chiller is important. 

[viper0419]

1 hour ago, dtdream said:

I'm not sure, doesn't look like it. But maybe ok la, I've not used Nyos before but should be a fairly decent brand. Unless you can call the shop to change since I guess not delivered yet? I have a Reef Octopus Varios 4 and Varios 2 which I really like and will recommend if you have the budget for it. But if not, read that the Jebao MDC ones are pretty decent too. Think there is a newer MDP one as well.

Congrats on your new tank! Happy days.

Yeah collected everything except for the tank…

[dtdream]

21 minutes ago, viper0419 said:

Yeah collected everything except for the tank…

Ahh ok, can exchange? If not it’s ok la, just try first I guess. Maybe you’ll end up liking it.