Redsea Reefer Overflow Issue

[mhcraft]

Wondering if any of the bros here faced similar issue

I have a RedSea Reefer Nano with overflow with the sump. If anyone uses RedSea Reefer before, you know that getting the overflow quiet is not something straight forward..in short, you need to make sure the water level in your main tank is high enough so it is a balanced between adjusting your return pump speed & tightening the overflow valve.

During my initial tank cycle, it was all good. I manage to adjust my pump speed and my overflow valve and everything is good and quiet...the issue started is when i start adding stuffs to my tank..

I added an additional UV Sterilizer & Chiller into the same return pump flow and the flow is.

1. Return Pump @ Sump to UV

2. UV to Chiller

3. Chiller to Main Tank

4. Main Tank Overflow back to Sump

Once i set that up, my overflow is getting noisy as the water level is too low. I have even tighten the overflow valve to the max (which slows the overflow speed to sump) but still it did not help...so the issue is definitely with water not getting back from the sump to the main tank fast enough. The other thing i want to highlight is with the tube sizes...the pump and everything else uses the 22mm but i had to convert to 16mm for my chiller and back to 22mm (not sure if that impacts the flow rate for the pump)

1. My pump is doing 1200l/h so for my tank size, i think it is good enough or do i need a stronger pump with the UV and Chiller addition?

2. Or should i set up a different pump just for the chiller or UV. My only worry is efficiency as it will be circulating the water in the sump although the return pump should circulate the water between the main tank & sump..

[koeching]

Just add more water, or is your sump full of water already? my neptunian cube does have the noise issue whenever i add equipment because the water level drops, so i simply add water. but the downside is your sump water level will be higher than the recommended water level if your sump has any water level chart on them.

[mhcraft]

Yea my sump is full of water already...

[josephwzr]

Are you using the stock valve that came with the tank? Best solution is to swap it out with a gate valve, which was what I did to my redsea 750xxl.

The stock valve is garbage and requires frequent maintenance if you wish to have it set up quietly.

[mhcraft]

Yea i saw some tutorials on that but honestly, i am not sure i am such a handyman to do piping works. Do you know if anyone / shop that does that?

I will keep this as a third option as i imagine that i have to do it sooner or later

[peedeers]

Both the UV and the chiller need specific flow rates. So its best to run separate pumps for those. Also a UV is like a heater. 25w UV is like a 25W heater, so feeding the output to the chiller is not a great idea. Best to control UV separate to turn on and off based on your water temp.


Sent from Singapore Reef Club mobile app

[josephwzr]

Yea i saw some tutorials on that but honestly, i am not sure i am such a handyman to do piping works. Do you know if anyone / shop that does that?
I will keep this as a third option as i imagine that i have to do it sooner or later

You can try asking ReefMarketSG. They may provide such services. Changing pumps, adjusting water levels won’t be much of a help. You’ll need a gate valve to precisely tune the water level in the display tank in order to achieve the silence.

[dtdream]

I own a red sea 350, using stock valve, I agree not so easy to tune, but with some patience, not so terrible.

My overflow is almost dead silent after tuning.

My 2 cents:

Most probably your pump is not strong enough. Please remember that there is always some head loss whenever you add things in series to your pump. Based on what I can see on the Red Sea Website, even Nano they are recommending a 2000 LPH pump.

https://www.redseafish.com/aquarium-systems/reefer/#data

So if you are using 1200 LPH, even with no head loss, its still slightly underpowered. I guess the reason you found it ok at first, is because if it is connected only from sump to tank, the head loss you experience is only head loss from height, which is still ok I guess. But once you add things in series like your chiller and UV, then you'll experience too much head loss.

I'm not sure what pump you are using, but just as an example, if you have the Syncra 1.5 which is rated at 1350 LPH, at 1m height (sump to DT), it effectively only is a 1000 LPH pump. Graph below. So you need to check what is the height from your sump to DT, and then check the head loss graph of the pump you bought. If no graph, you can use the below as a rough guide I suppose. 

And if you are working with effectively only a 1000 LPH pump, then you add chiller and UV in series, it maybe become only a 800 LPH pump or even less. 

My opinion is that it will best to set up a different pump just for the chiller/UV. Don't think you need to worry about the efficiency. I run a separate pump for my chiller that returns to the sump as well, my water is chilled just fine. If you think about it, assuming a 1000 LPH main return pump, it's still relatively quite a lot of water. So even if the UV/Chiller pump returns back to the sump, a good part of the water from the UV/Chiller pump will be recirculated back to the main DT by the main pump.

Also, please double check, but most likely your chiller and UV water flow requirement is different from your return pump requirement. So if you run them in series to your return pump, then its not going to be very efficient for your chiller and UV too.

If you wish to investigate in more detail, you can "agar" how much head loss you are currently experiencing by doing a simple experiment. Take a bigger measuring cup, a timer, and time how fast the water coming out of your return nozzle in your DT (with your current set up) fills that cup. Then, go to your sump, disconnect your pump to measure directly the time it takes to fill the same cup without any head loss or interference. You should see a pretty big difference.

 

 

[mhcraft]

1 hour ago, dtdream said:

I own a red sea 350, using stock valve, I agree not so easy to tune, but with some patience, not so terrible.

My overflow is almost dead silent after tuning.

My 2 cents:

Most probably your pump is not strong enough. Please remember that there is always some head loss whenever you add things in series to your pump. Based on what I can see on the Red Sea Website, even Nano they are recommending a 2000 LPH pump.

https://www.redseafish.com/aquarium-systems/reefer/#data

So if you are using 1200 LPH, even with no head loss, its still slightly underpowered. I guess the reason you found it ok at first, is because if it is connected only from sump to tank, the head loss you experience is only head loss from height, which is still ok I guess. But once you add things in series like your chiller and UV, then you'll experience too much head loss.

I'm not sure what pump you are using, but just as an example, if you have the Syncra 1.5 which is rated at 1350 LPH, at 1m height (sump to DT), it effectively only is a 1000 LPH pump. Graph below. So you need to check what is the height from your sump to DT, and then check the head loss graph of the pump you bought. If no graph, you can use the below as a rough guide I suppose. 

And if you are working with effectively only a 1000 LPH pump, then you add chiller and UV in series, it maybe become only a 800 LPH pump or even less. 

My opinion is that it will best to set up a different pump just for the chiller/UV. Don't think you need to worry about the efficiency. I run a separate pump for my chiller that returns to the sump as well, my water is chilled just fine. If you think about it, assuming a 1000 LPH main return pump, it's still relatively quite a lot of water. So even if the UV/Chiller pump returns back to the sump, a good part of the water from the UV/Chiller pump will be recirculated back to the main DT by the main pump.

Also, please double check, but most likely your chiller and UV water flow requirement is different from your return pump requirement. So if you run them in series to your return pump, then its not going to be very efficient for your chiller and UV too.

If you wish to investigate in more detail, you can "agar" how much head loss you are currently experiencing by doing a simple experiment. Take a bigger measuring cup, a timer, and time how fast the water coming out of your return nozzle in your DT (with your current set up) fills that cup. Then, go to your sump, disconnect your pump to measure directly the time it takes to fill the same cup without any head loss or interference. You should see a pretty big difference.

 

 

Thanks bro. This is very insightful. I think the first thing i will do is to try to split the flow 

1. Return pump for my UV

2. Another pump just for chiller within the sump

I was afraid of efficiency on point 2 but glad to know that folks are doing it so i think i should try that and see if the flow increases for my return pump - i am almost certain

Will update

[dtdream]

1 hour ago, mhcraft said:

Thanks bro. This is very insightful. I think the first thing i will do is to try to split the flow 

1. Return pump for my UV

2. Another pump just for chiller within the sump

I was afraid of efficiency on point 2 but glad to know that folks are doing it so i think i should try that and see if the flow increases for my return pump - i am almost certain

Will update

No worries. Yea you can try as above, but if still find too much head loss with the UV attached, you can try putting the UV + Chiller together on 1 pump, then the main return pump to you DT no interference with anything else. If you find that that works, and you still want to keep your UV attached to main return pump, then probably time to get a stronger pump..

Good luck!

[mhcraft]

4 hours ago, dtdream said:

No worries. Yea you can try as above, but if still find too much head loss with the UV attached, you can try putting the UV + Chiller together on 1 pump, then the main return pump to you DT no interference with anything else. If you find that that works, and you still want to keep your UV attached to main return pump, then probably time to get a stronger pump..

Good luck!

Bro 

Just to update - splitting to two pumps helped! 
 

The return pump flow is still kinda weak due to the UV so I had to turn the valve and pump until max..so I will need to upgrade my pump at some point but no more noisy overflow

Chiller is on another small pump and that is also just nice…so might upgrade the return pump and use it for the chiller

[dtdream]

1 hour ago, mhcraft said:

Bro 

Just to update - splitting to two pumps helped! 
 

The return pump flow is still kinda weak due to the UV so I had to turn the valve and pump until max..so I will need to upgrade my pump at some point but no more noisy overflow

Chiller is on another small pump and that is also just nice…so might upgrade the return pump and use it for the chiller

Yay!

Yep if you do end up geting another return pump, you could consider to get a slightly stronger pump that allows you to adjust the flow a little, so you have some margin of error. Just try to keep in mind the the head loss factor when you buy.

If you are very "ngiao" on noise like me, don't get pumps which are too oversized too, because it will produce more vibration noise, especially the AC pumps. You could consider the DC pumps which are much quieter, but also much more painful for the wallet unfortunately.

In any case, generally speaking higher tank turnover rates up to a point, is good for overall tank health. eg. 10x your tank's total water volume. (absolute turnover without head loss, interference, etc.)

 

[mhcraft]

4 hours ago, dtdream said:

Yay!

Yep if you do end up geting another return pump, you could consider to get a slightly stronger pump that allows you to adjust the flow a little, so you have some margin of error. Just try to keep in mind the the head loss factor when you buy.

If you are very "ngiao" on noise like me, don't get pumps which are too oversized too, because it will produce more vibration noise, especially the AC pumps. You could consider the DC pumps which are much quieter, but also much more painful for the wallet unfortunately.

In any case, generally speaking higher tank turnover rates up to a point, is good for overall tank health. eg. 10x your tank's total water volume. (absolute turnover without head loss, interference, etc.)

 

Yep…i am considering Jebao DCP-6500. Have u used this before? Painful for wallet but seems good reviews and for its features and power, cobsider cheap..This should give me a lot of headroom and if CFO approves another upgrade in the future, i could reuse it. Calculating the headloss, i will still get about 2000 - 3000lph which is about 20 - 30 times if max speed and as you said, DC is quieter and allows me to adjust the speed lower if need be

I wonder when I can stop spendibg money..haha. Just went to SAS and they have a lot of nice tangs

 

[dtdream]

38 minutes ago, mhcraft said:

Yep…i am considering Jebao DCP-6500. Have u used this before? Painful for wallet but seems good reviews and for its features and power, cobsider cheap..This should give me a lot of headroom and if CFO approves another upgrade in the future, i could reuse it. Calculating the headloss, i will still get about 2000 - 3000lph which is about 20 - 30 times if max speed and as you said, DC is quieter and allows me to adjust the speed lower if need be

I wonder when I can stop spendibg money..haha. Just went to SAS and they have a lot of nice tangs

 

Yea I've heard good things about the Jebao actually, but I did not get it because I read some other places that from time to time it does fail (but very, very few cases to be fair). DCP-6500 imo overkill for the Red Sea Reefer Nano though, its 6500 LPH! I think for Nano the DCP-4000 should be more than enough even considering head loss. I went with the Reef Octopus Varios 4 as I read pretty much zero bad things or failures on it. It is quite a bit more chor though, so while it works perfectly, I'm not entirely convinced it's worth it, but maybe 90% sure? hahaha!

And yea I know what you mean, this is hobby really feels like bottomless pit.. SAS is a great place to shop, a lot of nice stuff, but it is a slightly more expensive place for livestock. They do maintain their tanks pretty well though, so give and take I suppose.

 

[mhcraft]

9 hours ago, dtdream said:

Yea I've heard good things about the Jebao actually, but I did not get it because I read some other places that from time to time it does fail (but very, very few cases to be fair). DCP-6500 imo overkill for the Red Sea Reefer Nano though, its 6500 LPH! I think for Nano the DCP-4000 should be more than enough even considering head loss. I went with the Reef Octopus Varios 4 as I read pretty much zero bad things or failures on it. It is quite a bit more chor though, so while it works perfectly, I'm not entirely convinced it's worth it, but maybe 90% sure? hahaha!

And yea I know what you mean, this is hobby really feels like bottomless pit.. SAS is a great place to shop, a lot of nice stuff, but it is a slightly more expensive place for livestock. They do maintain their tanks pretty well though, so give and take I suppose.

 

Haha...i watch quite a bit reviews on Varios....quit overkill but again, keep you in peace of mind and that priceless.

Yea - i usually go SAS for their fishes as I don't have a quarantine tank and really can't afford getting cheaper and risk getting ich. I have another empty tank that i could use but the issue is the chiller...like you said bottomless pit so i choose to pay a bit more for the fish. For the rest of the items, really hit & miss...sometimes they can match and sometimes its quite pricey compare to ABA, ReefMarket etc.

i'll get a Jebao and let you know. There is a new MDP model which does Wifi...might get that one..

[dtdream]

3 hours ago, mhcraft said:

Haha...i watch quite a bit reviews on Varios....quit overkill but again, keep you in peace of mind and that priceless.

Yea - i usually go SAS for their fishes as I don't have a quarantine tank and really can't afford getting cheaper and risk getting ich. I have another empty tank that i could use but the issue is the chiller...like you said bottomless pit so i choose to pay a bit more for the fish. For the rest of the items, really hit & miss...sometimes they can match and sometimes its quite pricey compare to ABA, ReefMarket etc.

i'll get a Jebao and let you know. There is a new MDP model which does Wifi...might get that one..

I certainly hope so, if my Varios fails then I gotta go buy 4D lol.

While I would agree SAS fishes are generally healthier than other LFS, the risk of white spot/parasite is not zero.. I believe they do use therapeutic copper in their tanks too, which suppresses but not necessarily kills all ich and other parasites, etc. Then if suay and actually the fish has suppressed ich, etc, when you bring home it all comes out. In fact I got one fish I bought and QT with another reefer for 2 weeks, still kena I *think* some kind of parasite. Very minor and it seems like on and off though. Plus the fish is healthy and doesnt seem to be affecting other fish. So just monitoring for now. 

Actually if you have another tank it would be nice to do QT, for QT-ing fishes only you don't need a chiller. I do understand the hassle though. But then again your tank running UV should be added insurance too, I've been thinking of adding UV to my tank too but still thinking.

And yea for equipment I want to buy, I usually google the model for reviews first. So can see what other users say in the other worldwide forums too.

[mhcraft]

1 hour ago, dtdream said:

I certainly hope so, if my Varios fails then I gotta go buy 4D lol.

While I would agree SAS fishes are generally healthier than other LFS, the risk of white spot/parasite is not zero.. I believe they do use therapeutic copper in their tanks too, which suppresses but not necessarily kills all ich and other parasites, etc. Then if suay and actually the fish has suppressed ich, etc, when you bring home it all comes out. In fact I got one fish I bought and QT with another reefer for 2 weeks, still kena I *think* some kind of parasite. Very minor and it seems like on and off though. Plus the fish is healthy and doesnt seem to be affecting other fish. So just monitoring for now. 

Actually if you have another tank it would be nice to do QT, for QT-ing fishes only you don't need a chiller. I do understand the hassle though. But then again your tank running UV should be added insurance too, I've been thinking of adding UV to my tank too but still thinking.

And yea for equipment I want to buy, I usually google the model for reviews first. So can see what other users say in the other worldwide forums too.

Yea on the UV subject, I am not sure how much it helps but so far, does no harm. I did got hit with dino and the UV did suppress the outbreak but did not help eliminate (I think mine is the ones that stayed on the surface).

Like you said, bottomless pit..haha. I might introduce another fish and that's about it...focus my time on corals.

[dtdream]

5 hours ago, mhcraft said:

Yea on the UV subject, I am not sure how much it helps but so far, does no harm. I did got hit with dino and the UV did suppress the outbreak but did not help eliminate (I think mine is the ones that stayed on the surface).

Like you said, bottomless pit..haha. I might introduce another fish and that's about it...focus my time on corals.

Haha yea I’m going to slowly think about the UV. It’s part of the hobby, enjoy the waiting and the thinking. 
 

Cool, if you have a tank thread please share, always nice to see pics. I have one but not updated, been really lazy. Will try to update soon. 

[mhcraft]

39 minutes ago, dtdream said:

Haha yea I’m going to slowly think about the UV. It’s part of the hobby, enjoy the waiting and the thinking. 
 

Cool, if you have a tank thread please share, always nice to see pics. I have one but not updated, been really lazy. Will try to update soon. 

Will take one for you tomorrow..now the lights are off so not nice

Went to ABA just now and I must say their fishes are really scary - you can tell the effort SAS put in. The colors and the way the fishes swim are way different and I spotted two fishes dead…wont want to put into my tank without QT.

Anyways, just to update you - i bought the Jebao 3500 pump. I had a long thought and decided to once again merge the flow and I want to avoid two pumps as that means more chances for failures - might regret it. Few points:

1. Initially it was very noisy and it was due to the included red stand..once i removed it, extremely quiet - cant tell if it is running. Not sure if the stabd was faulty or not installed properly but i removed it anyways

2. Once again, I had to max out the pump and tighten the valve to the max and it was quiet - so really even 3500lph, it was just nice which is annoying - like i said, might split to two pumps on a later date as I guess running it max speed wont be good for the pump? Not sure..

[dtdream]

37 minutes ago, mhcraft said:

Will take one for you tomorrow..now the lights are off so not nice

Went to ABA just now and I must say their fishes are really scary - you can tell the effort SAS put in. The colors and the way the fishes swim are way different and I spotted two fishes dead…wont want to put into my tank without QT.

Anyways, just to update you - i bought the Jebao 3500 pump. I had a long thought and decided to once again merge the flow and I want to avoid two pumps as that means more chances for failures - might regret it. Few points:

1. Initially it was very noisy and it was due to the included red stand..once i removed it, extremely quiet - cant tell if it is running. Not sure if the stabd was faulty or not installed properly but i removed it anyways

2. Once again, I had to max out the pump and tighten the valve to the max and it was quiet - so really even 3500lph, it was just nice which is annoying - like i said, might split to two pumps on a later date as I guess running it max speed wont be good for the pump? Not sure..

Haha to be fair to ABA, their business model is fast in fast out, so can't help but have some casualties on the way. If you have a QT or just plain lucky, their fish prices are a fair bit cheaper than other places. So if you think about it, if you spend $100-200 on a simple QT, you'll get your money's worth if you shop at ABA. I know reefers who do QT, and they do have good experiences with ABA. As for SAS, try not to be too over confident also la, I personally know other reefers who got from there also experience mortality. Imo SAS IS "better", but as our Police like to say, "Low crime doesn't mean no crime".  

1. Actually another way to reduce a little sound is to buy those food grade silicon mat, and put under the pump to further reduce sound which comes from vibration. You can buy on Lazada/Shopee etc, but make sure its food grade. Alternatively, you can buy at IKEA also, its not ex but just a hassle to go there I guess, slightly risky too with all the covid cases going on now.

2. Yea DC pumps are great for sound right? Btw, you could consider to use the "old" 1200 LPH pump for your chiller, and the new DC pump for main return + UV? Then maybe you can go one down from max. But in any case, running at max shouldn't be any problem imo, they're supposed to be designed for it! Just make sure the flow rate would let your chiller cool your tank efficiently. If you find that your chiller takes a long time to chill your tank, its generally either (1) undersized, (2) flow rate too fast or too slow.

 

[mhcraft]

13 hours ago, dtdream said:

Haha to be fair to ABA, their business model is fast in fast out, so can't help but have some casualties on the way. If you have a QT or just plain lucky, their fish prices are a fair bit cheaper than other places. So if you think about it, if you spend $100-200 on a simple QT, you'll get your money's worth if you shop at ABA. I know reefers who do QT, and they do have good experiences with ABA. As for SAS, try not to be too over confident also la, I personally know other reefers who got from there also experience mortality. Imo SAS IS "better", but as our Police like to say, "Low crime doesn't mean no crime".  

1. Actually another way to reduce a little sound is to buy those food grade silicon mat, and put under the pump to further reduce sound which comes from vibration. You can buy on Lazada/Shopee etc, but make sure its food grade. Alternatively, you can buy at IKEA also, its not ex but just a hassle to go there I guess, slightly risky too with all the covid cases going on now.

2. Yea DC pumps are great for sound right? Btw, you could consider to use the "old" 1200 LPH pump for your chiller, and the new DC pump for main return + UV? Then maybe you can go one down from max. But in any case, running at max shouldn't be any problem imo, they're supposed to be designed for it! Just make sure the flow rate would let your chiller cool your tank efficiently. If you find that your chiller takes a long time to chill your tank, its generally either (1) undersized, (2) flow rate too fast or too slow.

 

Yea I agree ABA is very cheap. I guess i cant see myself maintaining a QT tank..CFO might kill me so I will take my chances with SAS + UV and plus, i am looking for one more fish and thats it.

My chiller usually runs once every hour and takes 15-20 mins to stop which I think it is normal…just a lot headache with the pump..for now, i will leave it and maybe when I not feeling too lazy, I will see how to change it

Some pictures - share yours too.

[dtdream]

14 hours ago, mhcraft said:

Yea I agree ABA is very cheap. I guess i cant see myself maintaining a QT tank..CFO might kill me so I will take my chances with SAS + UV and plus, i am looking for one more fish and thats it.

My chiller usually runs once every hour and takes 15-20 mins to stop which I think it is normal…just a lot headache with the pump..for now, i will leave it and maybe when I not feeling too lazy, I will see how to change it

Some pictures - share yours too.

Nice tank bro, looks clean and organized. I see how you place a wood panel on the side of your sump area to secure everything together. Smart!

Just updated my tank thread with the most recent pic, your post made me do it, been procrastinating haha. See here, scroll to last post: https://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/topic/189896-dts-dream/