Question about buying corals

[Izwei]

Hi Guys,

I have a question regards to buying corals. Just recently, I bought one torch coral from one lfs. I put in my new tank to try. The tank has surving sps, digita for a few weeks. No ammonia, detectable nitrate though alk is abit low 6.8 - 7. I put in on sand with a little flow for it to aclimate. But during the night, I notice there is a little receding on the side. I thought maybe, it was injured a little on the way home. The next morning, I notice is not doing well and quickly move to my another established tank. Usually, for my case new lps will opens up in a few hours. But the receding never stop, just 3 days is almost gone. 

When I collected the coral, I didn't really have the chance to see the coral condition as I purchase online. The lfs just go in take and pack. I didn't really check when I reach home either, I am not expert so I can't tell either. I just temp alcim, dip and put in. I only notice when it's in tank. It is probably my fault for not checking before collecting. I trusted the lfs that they won't sell me a coral that is in bad condition. 

I contacted the lfs on day 3, but the lfs didn't even bother reply. I didn't ask for refund or anything, perhaps hoping he can give me some advice. But nonethless, nothing. All I saw was the lfs post an tank showing all his beautiful torches. I not gonna lie, I felt really upset and uncomfortable, which make my whole purchasing experience really awful. It may be my fault to put it in a newer tank. But still..

What do you guys do when you encounter new corals dying? Do lfs in Singapore provide refund/replacement if there's any issue with the new corals? As I'm still quite new. I believe most of lfs don't. I encounter one lfs does but must within a time frame. What do you guys think? Thanks.

 

[Otaku Reefer]

Hi Guys,
I have a question regards to buying corals. Just recently, I bought one torch coral from one lfs. I put in my new tank to try. The tank has surving sps, digita for a few weeks. No ammonia, detectable nitrate though alk is abit low 6.8 - 7. I put in on sand with a little flow for it to aclimate. But during the night, I notice there is a little receding on the side. I thought maybe, it was injured a little on the way home. The next morning, I notice is not doing well and quickly move to my another established tank. Usually, for my case new lps will opens up in a few hours. But the receding never stop, just 3 days is almost gone. 
When I collected the coral, I didn't really have the chance to see the coral condition as I purchase online. The lfs just go in take and pack. I didn't really check when I reach home either, I am not expert so I can't tell either. I just temp alcim, dip and put in. I only notice when it's in tank. It is probably my fault for not checking before collecting. I trusted the lfs that they won't sell me a coral that is in bad condition. 
I contacted the lfs on day 3, but the lfs didn't even bother reply. I didn't ask for refund or anything, perhaps hoping he can give me some advice. But nonethless, nothing. All I saw was the lfs post an tank showing all his beautiful torches. I not gonna lie, I felt really upset and uncomfortable, which make my whole purchasing experience really awful. It may be my fault to put it in a newer tank. But still..
What do you guys do when you encounter new corals dying? Do lfs in Singapore provide refund/replacement if there's any issue with the new corals? As I'm still quite new. I believe most of lfs don't. I encounter one lfs does but must within a time frame. What do you guys think? Thanks.
 

Sorry for ur loss bro, its common in this hobby. Not likely will refund cos the LFS can just say its ur water issue. Its hard to pinpoint and not fair to LFS also. Sometimes it can be our fault, rough handling, water issue etc...thats y online purchase is cheaper but comes with risk, the color can be off or the coral is sick or receding, sometimes the LFS cant tell also as they have many lifestock to look after..so sometimes go shop buy better, take time to see see look look, inspect pest, apitasia, receding tissue etc, den buy with confidence, sure u are paying premium, but at least it pass ur own QC and wysiwyg.
Dont be dishearten and keep going, u will soon find ur favorite LFS which provide healthy corals. Sometimes it can be the water,
flow light also, maybe LFS tank parameters quite different from urs and coral will shock, the acclimation probably wont help as corals are slow adapting animals, this is just my theory though.


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[Izwei]

Thanks for the reply and encouragement. It really lightens my mood. I was thinking the same thing too, if lfs does refund/exchange for everyone, someone bound to abuse it. Though I sort of think that it's common but was probably upset becos of no response and there after a photo. It could mean something or not. I don't know.

I understand that this hobby, there won't be a guarantee thing. There are many underlying factors, sometimes one just gone for no reasons and others nothing happen at all. It's like in a batch of apples, there's always a bad apple. It may also my fault that I have done something wrong in the process due to inexperience. 

And you're so right about inspecting and qcs. This is something to learn for me. I should be more particular on checking before purchasing, just like buying anything . I just feel paiseh to stare at the corals in front shop owner. Need to be more thick skin. Probably a lesson for people like me, remember to inspect the corals before purchasing. I doubt anyone will be so dumb. Thanks for the comment.

[Shannon Tan]

Don't be disheartened. Through my experience keeping lps happy and thriving, the most important is actually your salinity and nutritions in your tank and ncorals are NOT affected by ammonia in your tank because they don't have hemoglobin in their system.

I noticed that you said that your tank is relatively new? I think that's your cause right there. Because its relatively new, your corals might not be able to adjust due to how "clean" your tank water is. As surprising as it might sound, corals don't come from pristine water in the ocean. There is definitely some form of waste/nutrients in the composition of seawater.

What I would suggest to you to improve will be adding a "nitrate trap" like a sponge in the overflow to basically release phosphates and nitrates back into the water over time as it catches fish waste and other stuff in the water. However, do remember to replace the filter sponge every now and then to prevent algae bloom and try not to remove the filter pad/sponge after a waterchange as the water might be too "clean" for your corals.

I hope my experience will help you better improve your reefing journey.

Hi Guys,
I have a question regards to buying corals. Just recently, I bought one torch coral from one lfs. I put in my new tank to try. The tank has surving sps, digita for a few weeks. No ammonia, detectable nitrate though alk is abit low 6.8 - 7. I put in on sand with a little flow for it to aclimate. But during the night, I notice there is a little receding on the side. I thought maybe, it was injured a little on the way home. The next morning, I notice is not doing well and quickly move to my another established tank. Usually, for my case new lps will opens up in a few hours. But the receding never stop, just 3 days is almost gone. 
When I collected the coral, I didn't really have the chance to see the coral condition as I purchase online. The lfs just go in take and pack. I didn't really check when I reach home either, I am not expert so I can't tell either. I just temp alcim, dip and put in. I only notice when it's in tank. It is probably my fault for not checking before collecting. I trusted the lfs that they won't sell me a coral that is in bad condition. 
I contacted the lfs on day 3, but the lfs didn't even bother reply. I didn't ask for refund or anything, perhaps hoping he can give me some advice. But nonethless, nothing. All I saw was the lfs post an tank showing all his beautiful torches. I not gonna lie, I felt really upset and uncomfortable, which make my whole purchasing experience really awful. It may be my fault to put it in a newer tank. But still..
What do you guys do when you encounter new corals dying? Do lfs in Singapore provide refund/replacement if there's any issue with the new corals? As I'm still quite new. I believe most of lfs don't. I encounter one lfs does but must within a time frame. What do you guys think? Thanks.
 

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[Thehaddonicarpet]

Did your torch skin turn to brown mush? That’s brown jelly and something we all experience at some point. Losing a coral is part and parcel of the hobby


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[Izwei]

1 hour ago, Shannon Tan said:

Don't be disheartened. Through my experience keeping lps happy and thriving, the most important is actually your salinity and nutritions in your tank and ncorals are NOT affected by ammonia in your tank because they don't have hemoglobin in their system.

I noticed that you said that your tank is relatively new? I think that's your cause right there. Because its relatively new, your corals might not be able to adjust due to how "clean" your tank water is. As surprising as it might sound, corals don't come from pristine water in the ocean. There is definitely some form of waste/nutrients in the composition of seawater.

Hi, you are right, it may due to the tank is realtively new. Though the tank has detectable nitrates and phos, salinity wise also stable. But the fact that it started receding within hours and got worst overnight. And I shifted it to more established tank next morning, which may also make things worst. It didn't stop receding and probably a goner in day 4. It's a single head torch that spliting into 3 heads, so each day from one head spread to another head. But my thought was that it shouldn't rtn that fast consider the tank parameters are in range. If it's due to not enough nutrients, it should take quite a while to die if it's a healthy coral. Well, It could be very well be the new tank problem, biologically not that established and maybe others things in the tank.

Yep, I'm still working on the new tank and waiting for it to be more established. Not gonna put any more corals till then. Thanks for the advice.

42 minutes ago, Thehaddonicarpet said:

Did your torch skin turn to brown mush? That’s brown jelly and something we all experience at some point. Losing a coral is part and parcel of the hobby

No leh, I also thought was brown jelly disease. Dont have any jelly. It reacts more like sps rtn, tissue slowly die off and fly off..

[Otaku Reefer]

Thanks for the reply and encouragement. It really lightens my mood. I was thinking the same thing too, if lfs does refund/exchange for everyone, someone bound to abuse it. Though I sort of think that it's common but was probably upset becos of no response and there after a photo. It could mean something or not. I don't know.
I understand that this hobby, there won't be a guarantee thing. There are many underlying factors, sometimes one just gone for no reasons and others nothing happen at all. It's like in a batch of apples, there's always a bad apple. It may also my fault that I have done something wrong in the process due to inexperience. 
And you're so right about inspecting and qcs. This is something to learn for me. I should be more particular on checking before purchasing, just like buying anything . I just feel paiseh to stare at the corals in front shop owner. Need to be more thick skin. Probably a lesson for people like me, remember to inspect the corals before purchasing. I doubt anyone will be so dumb. Thanks for the comment.

Bro, no need to feel paiseh, inspect to the last drop lol, same concept as u buy house all these u will keep checking mah lol..Just to share my experience, try to go early and not till shop closing, got 1 time i went near closing time and felt paiseh and impulse buy a torch which don’t normally pass my own QC standards lol, oh well it is what it is..move on.. Also for fish i *always* insist LFS to feed the fish to confirm feeding b4 buying besides checking for skinny tummy or external parasites. If the shop bo chap u, just walk away.. remember u r paying customer, customer is 99% right lol...


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[Izwei]

2 hours ago, Otaku Reefer said:

Bro, no need to feel paiseh, inspect to the last drop lol, same concept as u buy house all these u will keep checking mah lol..Just to share my experience, try to go early and not till shop closing, got 1 time i went near closing time and felt paiseh and impulse buy a torch which don’t normally pass my own QC standards lol, oh well it is what it is..move on.. Also for fish i *always* insist LFS to feed the fish to confirm feeding b4 buying besides checking for skinny tummy or external parasites. If the shop bo chap u, just walk away.. remember u r paying customer, customer is 99% right lol...

Haha, inspect to the last drop . Ya siah, so true, sometimes see corals excited alr, impulse buy, see nice buy liao no need to think. Go home den regret, go one corner and draw circles. I also had some bad experience with fish. Back then still don't know what to look out for when buying. So I guess it's the same for anything, you must know what to inspect for before buying just like all the points thst you have mentioned. Sometimes, you just have to learn from bad experiences. 

[SubzeroLT]

Regarding salinity:

Salinity is something to validate. Very often we think our refractometer is accurate but can be way off in reality. For mixed reef, the correct salinity of sea water is 35ppt = 1.0264SG.

Many think 1.025 is the target number. This is acceptable but the correct target should be 35ppt (1.0264).

Next, how sure is one that the refractometer is correct? Recently I was chatting with a reefer who was sure his salinity was correct at 1.025SG. But upon validation, found it is actually in the 1.03+ range. 

Optical salinity refractometers are to be calibrated with RODI at 20deg C (not room temperature). Do a simple test of going into an air con room & test your refractometer with RODI water. Check if its at the zero point. If not, there could a contributor to fundamental water issues.

Old corals in the tank may be accustomed to it. New corals from LFS will be shocked by the difference & can shrivel up. Most LFS run their salinity a little lower. I make it a point to check the salinity in the bag. If its very far off, I'd acclimate over many many hours. 

I agree to the various points mentioned by otaku reefer. Also on the point to take your time to inspect without feeling 'paiseh'. 

 

Ideally, purchase corals/fish that are in the LFS for a couple of days/weeks (i.e stable). Flash sale or auction pieces are usually newly fragged pieces (especially for torch & gonio). This is a risk & trade off for getting good deals of beautiful pieces on shipment day. So weigh your options.

Also, torch corals are known to be sensitive & finicky. Even seasoned tanks can experience similar issues with newly purchased corals.

[Izwei]

Tbh, I never really thought that salinity difference will have a huge impact on corals when comes to acclimiating them. I uses a digital meter from hanna to test for salinity. Both my tanks are siting on 1.025, yep the target you said. One of the lfs mentioned to me, if you keep your tank temperature at higher level, your salinity should be a little lower, etc 26 to 27 degree, salinity should be around 1.024. Not sure if it's true, so I set mine at 1.025, temp around 25.3 to 26. Even if I uses a refractometer, I uses calibration solution to calibrate instead of using ro water. But yeah, what you have said was so true about refractometers and this is something to look out for.

I never thought of measuring the salinity in bag for corals, I only do it for fishes and invertebrates. I may take note next time to minimal the impact. Most of the times, I just temp acclimate, dip, put and it opens up within a few hours. I bought another torch from the same lfs with no issue either. It opens up fully within a few hours. It may be just this type of torch are more sensitive. But there are many underlying reasons, probably I will never get the answer why.

58 minutes ago, SubzeroLT said:

Ideally, purchase corals/fish that are in the LFS for a couple of days/weeks (i.e stable). Flash sale or auction pieces are usually newly fragged pieces (especially for torch & gonio). This is a risk & trade off for getting good deals of beautiful pieces on shipment day. So weigh your options.

Oh I didn't know about this, that Flash sale or auction pieces are usually newly fragged.  I guess this something to consider when buying. But I guess not all lfs will do the same, maybe this is something to clarify with the lfs before buying. 

But nonetheless, the are many factors. In my opinion, I feel sometimes just suay. Corals also will die in ocean. Thanks for the advice .

[SubzeroLT]

1 hour ago, Izwei said:

Oh I didn't know about this, that Flash sale or auction pieces are usually newly fragged.  I guess this something to consider when buying. But I guess not all lfs will do the same, maybe this is something to clarify with the lfs before buying. 

 

I realize my earlier comments may be misleading & does not paint LFS in a good light. To clarify, many LFS ensure corals are stable before selling. But very often, it is we reefers who rush to get the nicest pieces because the demand is high. And may end up getting newly imported or fragged pieces (which may have less time to stabilize)

 

1 hour ago, Izwei said:

One of the lfs mentioned to me, if you keep your tank temperature at higher level, your salinity should be a little lower, etc 26 to 27 degree, salinity should be around 1.024. Not sure if it's true, so I set mine at 1.025, temp around 25.3 to 26.

For a given amount of water, salinity change at various temperature because of water expansion/contraction. Hence the preference to use PPT (parts per thousand) instead of SG(Specific Gravity). 35ppt is 35ppt regardless of temperature.

[equiox]

Now you know what to do.. Just move on..