Dt's Dream?

[dtdream]

3 hours ago, mhcraft said:

Did you do copper treatment for the new fishes? Might want to consider that especially for the tangs so you can be 99% certain your tank is ich-free.

I just purchased a purple tang and as per your advise, i set up a small QT tank and doing copper treatment on it. Been 2 days and so far so good - fingers crossed.

I don't do copper treatment, but I would seriously consider it if I had my own QT tank. I did think of setting up one, but (1) hassle (2) my office space too small. Its recommended you have your QT tank away from your DT due to a chance of aerosol transmission of ich (apparently its possible). I've read something like 10 feet (~3m) away is recommended. My office space probably around that length so for sure fail that guideline, lol.

For me I tompang my new fishes at a fellow reefer's QT tank for 2 weeks for a fee. We just do 2 weeks observational quarantine. If the fish looks healthy and feeding, then do no treatment. Usually ich/velvet will appear very quickly in a non-copper tank after bringing home from LFS (if fish is indeed infected). He runs UV on his QT. If there are any issues with the fish(es), then we discuss and see what to do, eg. copper/prazi. But it would depend on the issue. 

Happy for you that you have your own QT! 

[mhcraft]

58 minutes ago, dtdream said:

I don't do copper treatment, but I would seriously consider it if I had my own QT tank. I did think of setting up one, but (1) hassle (2) my office space too small. Its recommended you have your QT tank away from your DT due to a chance of aerosol transmission of ich (apparently its possible). I've read something like 10 feet (~3m) away is recommended. My office space probably around that length so for sure fail that guideline, lol.

For me I tompang my new fishes at a fellow reefer's QT tank for 2 weeks for a fee. We just do 2 weeks observational quarantine. If the fish looks healthy and feeding, then do no treatment. Usually ich/velvet will appear very quickly in a non-copper tank after bringing home from LFS (if fish is indeed infected). He runs UV on his QT. If there are any issues with the fish(es), then we discuss and see what to do, eg. copper/prazi. But it would depend on the issue. 

Happy for you that you have your own QT! 

Good to be able to QT with a fellow reefer. On the ich discussion, one of my friend actually had a blue tang for months without any sign of ich but a recent pump failure trigger the ich to appear so thats why it is highly recommended to just do copper treatment for 2 weeks to be very sure. This is the main reason most would just opt for eradication vs management  You could still do it now on your DT as I believe it is fish only now? 

I was looking for a purple tang for a while and ABA and your favorite west shop had them in stock with a price difference of 30 bucks so I figure to get it cheaper and use the difference to do copper treatment

Will let you know on lessons learnt

 

[dtdream]

12 hours ago, mhcraft said:

Good to be able to QT with a fellow reefer. On the ich discussion, one of my friend actually had a blue tang for months without any sign of ich but a recent pump failure trigger the ich to appear so thats why it is highly recommended to just do copper treatment for 2 weeks to be very sure. This is the main reason most would just opt for eradication vs management  You could still do it now on your DT as I believe it is fish only now? 

I was looking for a purple tang for a while and ABA and your favorite west shop had them in stock with a price difference of 30 bucks so I figure to get it cheaper and use the difference to do copper treatment

Will let you know on lessons learnt

 

I would agree with you regarding copper treatment in QT. But for full course of proper QT (do copper+prazi), will be 4 weeks, maybe more. Gor me I think 80-90% safe would be good enough (until proven otherwise of course, lol). 100% safe would be pretty much impossible unless you QT your corals/inverts too (76 days). Because ich's tormont (egg) stage can still be present on the rocks/plugs or corals, shell of snails, etc which you buy.

It is not recommended to do copper on DT even if no corals (and planning to), as the rocks/sand will absorb some copper and its just going to be a ticking time bomb. But I actually have a few frags in, so can't in any case.

If I had a QT and have time and patience to do QT for a longer period of time, I'd buy fish from ABA all day  Actually now if they had something I want, I would still buy from them, just that my chance of increasing my cost to QT becomes higher as I'm doing with a fellow reefer. The good west shop their PT wasn't so nice when I was shopping for PT. I ended up buying my PT from DE Aquatic as they had a very nice specimen (body shape, colour, and not aggressive). But if buying from there, I'll just say that just please observe longer.

A neat trick to see if the chance of a fish/tang bring aggressive or not is to observe at LFS if it attacks/tries to attack other similar fishes in the LFS, or if it has the run away and hide type personality. You can actually observe a lot just be observing! But of course, shy doesn't mean that you should omit the strongly recommended requirement that it is feeding. But I only will buy shy fishes if the fish species is known to be aggressive, like the PT! If it is a shy species, I will try to look for a more aggressive specimen.

And yes! Please share lesson's learn. Start a tank thread too?!

[dtdream]

Continuing on the previous update.

So my Gem Tang the spot thing is gone now. I'm quite sure it's not ich(will have more and smaller white bumps) nor flukes (did a freshwater dip, nothing came off). I've asked around and it's probably a parasitic copepod, which should go away on its own. Might come back again, but recommended action is to do nothing for now as it doesn't really harm the fish and not spreading on itself nor to other fishes as well.

Other updates:

1. Touch wood/finger's crossed, I think I've managed to skip the brown "ugly stage" based on observations so far. My tank is about 3-3.5 months old, and is showing green film algae, which is the stage we all want to reach after brown. While my sample size is only one (myself), I attribute it to the copepods(Tisbe+Apocyclops from Algagen) which I introduced early on. Copepods are known diatom eaters and I think is the biggest missing link(among others) between new and more established tanks. My sump is "infested" with copepods now. If I look at the wall of my sump tank closely, its pretty much jammed with copepods. So I'm seriously considering bringing forward my plan to have a pair of mandarins. Initial plan was at least 9 month-1 year mark. But let's see.

2. No Skimmer, miracle mud refugium only plan - so far so good, but not exactly. I think it might be working too well currently? I have what seems like zero nitrates (Salifert) and zero phosphates (Hanna ULR). I've read that with both zero nitrates and phosphates, the dreaded dinos might appear. Plus those values are supposedly not good for coral health as well. BUT, I've also read that if we use dry rocks to start, which I am, dry rocks absorb phosphates at the start, then after reaching saturation at an unknown point in the future, might start releasing it. So.. let's see how it goes. In the meantime, just to experiment, I'm trying to increase feeding and reducing refugium lights time to see if I can get the values up, but it seems it is just increasing the growth of green film algae on glass. Growth of my chaeto in sump has been growing pretty quick, and I'm having to trim 1/3 every 7-10 days.

So folks, I think it's pretty clear, no need skimmer (so far)  

But caveat is that current bioload is not that high; fishes I currently have:

1 x Yellow Tang, 1 x Purple Tang, 1 x Gem Tang, 2 x Onyx Perculas.

Feeding: I have an auto feeder that feeds pellets twice a day, and I feed nori sheets (about 2 inch square) once a day for about 5 days a week, and some frozen mysis with vitachem 3-4 times a week.

Photo of sump (just filter floss in cup + chaeto + miracle mud + excess dry rock)

3. My KH values have been low for the first 2 months, about 6.2-.4.  So as I've recently add some small frags to "test water", I added arm and hammer baking soda (did not bake), to bump it up to 7, then planning to use Kalkwasser to maintain, with the occasional supplemental baking soda. The single head dosing pump that I'm looking at is currently out of stock, so just manually dosing for now. Kalkwasser has the added benefit of a small PH bump, plus I've have good experiences with it in the past. Last time from my memory, two part dosing is not as mainstream as now.

I tested calcium (~400) and magnesium (~1280ppm) and both looks ok. Kalkwasser adds Calcium in almost equal proportions to Alkalinity, so just plan to monitor Alk levels more closely, and test Calcium occasionally until maybe when coral load is much higher. Magnesium doesn't deplete too quickly especially for new tanks, so will just rely on water changes for now, not going to monitor unless I see weird fluctuations in Alk. PH is about 8.1-8.2, which is pretty ok, hopefully when I get the dosing pump it can be 8.2-8.3.

Useful reef calculator to share, it's been pretty much dead on accurate for me: http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

4. Since I'm seeing green algae, hopefully the next stage I can progress is to see coralline algae. I bought 5 Trochus snails with a some coralline algae on the shells. I used the blade of a scissors to shave some coralline algae off the shells and spread the shavings in the water. It's supposed to help seed coralline algae faster, so we shall see. I did not initially want to get snails, as I was thinking snails poo too and adds unnecessary bio-load. Plus have the risk of parasite eggs potentially on the snails' shell. But I guess was feeling lucky, and I really wanted to seed some coralline algae and control the green film algae a little better. That said, I still brushed the shell of the snails with a tooth brush and RO water before releasing into my tank. I know coralline algae is seen almost as a pest to some as it chugs alkalinity and calcium, but I think it just gives the tank a much nicer natural look.

5. One cool discovery: Diamond paste for minor scratches on outside of glass! I don't know how I did it, but I accidentally scratched the a bit of the glass on the outside facing part of my tank. Upset, I tried to google online and was quite demoralizing initially to say the least. Most on other reef/glass related forum topics commented no hope, need to use machine/equipment which is messy, or need to get professional. I even asked Red Sea directly, but they said they don't really have a solution, need to ask professional. But there was one forum somewhere, which a person posted that they used diamond paste with good results. So tried and it works! It's quite easy to use too. I just used tissue paper and apply the diamond paste, rub the scratched area for maybe 5-10mins, and its very much reduced, to pretty much I almost cant see, unless maybe if I squint really hard.

See and judge for yourself. Concede that photo not great, but close enough I hope.

Before:

After: 

So guys, if you have a minor scratch on outside of your glass and find it an eyesore, try diamond paste. Unlike the sound of its name, its not expensive at all! Paid about $2+ per tube, can be found on Shoppee/Lazada. Here's what it looks like. I bought the 1 and 0.5 micron type, but I only used the 1 micron one as the result was good enough for me. 0.5 micron will be even more fine. 

Caveat: My scratch is quite minor, if I use my fingers to touch, I definitely can feel the abrasion, but it's not so deep that that my finger nails can get lodged (if fingernails can get lodged, then might be too deep to make it go away totally). But in any case, the paste should help to reduce a little at least). And if it doesn't work, it's only $2+, so worth a try!

If scratch is inside your tank, sorry can't help, you might need to drain or at least partially drain your tank first.

6. Near term plans: Not much, just let it be for now. Maybe add a sea cucumber to clean the sand. And maybe a few more fishes (not sure what yet) if the nitrate/phosphates levels stay so low. After a couple weeks then maybe will start looking for more frags again if current "test water" frags don't die. I've currently got about 5 different small pieces of different types, so should be a good enough reference. So far so good.

7. Longer term plans: Mixed reef, with bit more weight to SPS if first few frags do ok. Fish wise definitely a pair of mandarins as I really enjoy seeing them do their spawning dance (hopefully). I had a pair in the past which did their spawning dance in my tank and it was just really amazing to watch. And maybe an Achilles Tang if I can convince my better half and if prices drop hopefully (but probably not).

That's it for now, maybe update in a couple months unless anybody has any comments/questions

[mhcraft]

2 hours ago, dtdream said:

I would agree with you regarding copper treatment in QT. But for full course of proper QT (do copper+prazi), will be 4 weeks, maybe more. Gor me I think 80-90% safe would be good enough (until proven otherwise of course, lol). 100% safe would be pretty much impossible unless you QT your corals/inverts too (76 days). Because ich's tormont (egg) stage can still be present on the rocks/plugs or corals, shell of snails, etc which you buy.

It is not recommended to do copper on DT even if no corals (and planning to), as the rocks/sand will absorb some copper and its just going to be a ticking time bomb. But I actually have a few frags in, so can't in any case.

If I had a QT and have time and patience to do QT for a longer period of time, I'd buy fish from ABA all day  Actually now if they had something I want, I would still buy from them, just that my chance of increasing my cost to QT becomes higher as I'm doing with a fellow reefer. The good west shop their PT wasn't so nice when I was shopping for PT. I ended up buying my PT from DE Aquatic as they had a very nice specimen (body shape, colour, and not aggressive). But if buying from there, I'll just say that just please observe longer.

A neat trick to see if the chance of a fish/tang bring aggressive or not is to observe at LFS if it attacks/tries to attack other similar fishes in the LFS, or if it has the run away and hide type personality. You can actually observe a lot just be observing! But of course, shy doesn't mean that you should omit the strongly recommended requirement that it is feeding. But I only will buy shy fishes if the fish species is known to be aggressive, like the PT! If it is a shy species, I will try to look for a more aggressive specimen.

And yes! Please share lesson's learn. Start a tank thread too?!

Copper + Prazi - hmm, not sure I would use it for QT new fishes...seems a bit excessive and I am sure these treatments will not be good for the fishes so I am pretty happy with copper alone at this moment.

Yea - I also learnt that dipping coral will NOT eradicate ich which is very annoying to say the least

For ABA, I actually spent 30 minutes there. One of their purple tang obviously had some white spots and again, spotted a few fishes dead but again, it all comes down to personal choices. The one i got seems to be swimming well, feeding well and at least non-aggressive at that 30 minutes window. I did substantial research on PT and compatibility with my existing fishes and i figured i would probably want either a purple or yellow tang and I can't resist PT

On setting up QT - initially I was very hesitant but upon reading further, it doesn't have to be complex or big. Bear in mind that the fish will probably be in there 2 - 3 weeks max - my only concern was chiller but upon researching, that's not really necessary as well.

Yea i might start a new tank thread - wanted to but felt kinda lazy as well.

[mhcraft]

27 minutes ago, dtdream said:

2. No Skimmer, miracle mud refugium only plan - so far so good, but not exactly. I think it might be working too well currently? I have what seems like zero nitrates (Salifert) and zero phosphates (Hanna ULR). I've read that with both zero nitrates and phosphates, the dreaded dinos might appear. Plus those values are supposedly not good for coral health as well. BUT, I've also read that if we use dry rocks to start, which I am, dry rocks absorb phosphates at the start, then after reaching saturation at an unknown point in the future, might start releasing it. So.. let's see how it goes. In the meantime, just to experiment, I'm trying to increase feeding and reducing refugium lights time to see if I can get the values up, but it seems it is just increasing the growth of green film algae on glass. Growth of my chaeto in sump has been growing pretty quick, and I'm having to trim 1/3 every 7-10 days.

 

Yea you definitely do not want to have double zeros. I had the unfortunate luxury to deal with dinos and they are the worst - i would deal with GHA all the long vs dinos. Your cheato might be too efficient, might want to tune down the refugium lights.

28 minutes ago, dtdream said:

3. My KH values have been low for the first 2 months, about 6.2-.4.  So as I've recently add some small frags to "test water", I added arm and hammer baking soda (did not bake), to bump it up to 7, then planning to use Kalkwasser to maintain, with the occasional supplemental baking soda. The single head dosing pump that I'm looking at is currently out of stock, so just manually dosing for now. Kalkwasser has the added benefit of a small PH bump, plus I've have good experiences with it in the past. Last time from my memory, two part dosing is not as mainstream as now.

 

 I had my fair share of dealing with KH...the one option is to have KH solution within your ATO, the only issue with your setup is RedSea's ATO sucks water from the bottom so you have to deal with the white mixture of Kalk - what i used to do is I had ATO setup where the pump is actually elevated from the base of my ATO container hence sucking in less of the white Kalk mixture - too much of these will make your tank turn cloudy.

Having saying that, I have moved past that and went to a lazy-main solution  RedSea Coral Pro Salt. It is relatively more expensive salt but honestly, ever since I used it, all my parameters remained stable with bi-weekly water changes. It is still a doable solution for my tank size but not sure of 350...I had a long thought between getting a doser vs using Coral Pro Salt and honestly, I liked this much better. My PH is always around 8.1 - 8.3 levels and KH is between 8 - 12 DKH and corals are so much more happier.

33 minutes ago, dtdream said:

So guys, if you have a minor scratch on outside of your glass and find it an eyesore, try diamond paste. Unlike the sound of its name, its not expensive at all! Paid about $2+ per tube, can be found on Shoppee/Lazada. Here's what it looks like. I bought the 1 and 0.5 micron type, but I only used the 1 micron one as the result was good enough for me. 0.5 micron will be even more fine. 

 

Man - i wished I knew about this. My tank had a hair line scratch however it was the inner side. I am so bumped about it but i guess i can't do anything know as not sure if this can go into the tank's water. Something i will definitely look to fix if i had a chance to drain the tank!

[dtdream]

7 hours ago, mhcraft said:

On setting up QT - initially I was very hesitant but upon reading further, it doesn't have to be complex or big. Bear in mind that the fish will probably be in there 2 - 3 weeks max - my only concern was chiller but upon researching, that's not really necessary as well.

Yea i might start a new tank thread - wanted to but felt kinda lazy as well.

Haha yea just lower probability for the nasties for as reasonable as possible should be good enough! 

 

7 hours ago, mhcraft said:

 I had my fair share of dealing with KH...the one option is to have KH solution within your ATO, the only issue with your setup is RedSea's ATO sucks water from the bottom so you have to deal with the white mixture of Kalk - what i used to do is I had ATO setup where the pump is actually elevated from the base of my ATO container hence sucking in less of the white Kalk mixture - too much of these will make your tank turn cloudy.

Having saying that, I have moved past that and went to a lazy-main solution  RedSea Coral Pro Salt. It is relatively more expensive salt but honestly, ever since I used it, all my parameters remained stable with bi-weekly water changes. It is still a doable solution for my tank size but not sure of 350...I had a long thought between getting a doser vs using Coral Pro Salt and honestly, I liked this much better. My PH is always around 8.1 - 8.3 levels and KH is between 8 - 12 DKH and corals are so much more happier.

Yea ATO way of dosing kalk not recommended, not consistent enough, and as you mentioned, for RSR 350 the ATO design has a higher likelihood of getting clogged. 

Actually in an ideal future scenario, I would like to change water only every month or even less, so have to go the dosing route  But yes, good tip on the salt!