Roidan's Reef (III)

[weileong]

See it in person is even better

[that was niceeeee]

wah bro AT nice than how big is your sailfin?

[patrick123]

Hi Roidan,

Can you comment about Mebner pump? Do you think it is reliable and suitable for marine?

Thanks,

Patrick

[roidan]

thanks alfa...never really measured it...maybe those who have seen it can help me determine the length....

that was niceeeee: sailfin also quite big...can compare to AT maybe

patrick123: so far haven't fail on me yet...still using it on my ev240

UPDATE: skimmer is soon to be comissioned...here is the collector cup with my dog in it.....yeah..this is just the collection cup

somehow reminds me of the walking pram that babies learn to walk in

[roidan]

u may ask...is the dog super small or the collection cup is super big....

that.....i dunno how to answer you

[roidan]

Roidan's Dog:

That's all folks...signing off

[flubberina13]

Quick!!! Call SPCA...

[roidan]

Quick!!! Call SPCA...

i already know someone will make such a comment

some friends and i were betting on it.....and who will be the one

aiya...of coz just for a moment lah..u think long term confinement meh

my doggie very cooperative... just carry him up....slot him in via his 2 hind legs....and just nice his 2 front legs perch on the top.....heng he is slim...unlike me....

oh yeah..i was also thinking of asking a cousin to pose inside the middle section of the skimmer....dun tell me i will get reported to human rights activists groups

[patrick123]

patrick123: so far haven't fail on me yet...still using it on my ev240

Roidan,

Thanks for the reply. So now the fellow reefer got one more choice to choose from for reliable and high output, non-pressurated pump (Mebner) other than Ocean runner, Eheim or Bubble king.

Cheers,

Patrick

[roidan]

no problem...for me...i am gradually getting rid of all the miscellanous pumps already..

running a full iwaki lineup for my system soon

[patrick123]

Yeah...how I wish the iwaki are as affordable in Singapore as they are in HK without having to fly to HK to buy.

[Maxima]

Rodian,

This my 2 cents

I guess u are going to power up your Beckett with Iwaki MX100. If your height and diameter is set right, I don"t think u need to taper your funnel of the collection cup. A powerful pump should be able to do the job. Tapering allows a easier wet collection. BTW, if you look at my Bubble King 12 inch cup, it is not tapered at all. Unless u plan to split your Iwaki 100 inputs to two nozzle- reducing the power, else no point tapering.

Your design is for under power pump setup. Point here is, since u are using Iwaki 100 and u are looking for water quality, there's no point cutting pump thru put (cutting corners?). Else u must well run a quality needle wheel to save power and still get the business done.

A good industrial benchmark is the AeroFoamer 800 series Design - I find it a NO bullshit reference.

Max

[mUAr_cHEe]

dog kinda look like aaron kwok when younger...

centre parting....

[Hon]

Geez....I got that benchmarker at home

[AlfaRomeo]

Roidan, 1 question to ask you.. What made you decide to go with the monster powerhungry project instead of getting a big Bubbleking or Deltec?

[alvy]

max:haha....i like ur clean cut observation of wat a funneled neck can or cannot do....but it just didn't exactly tie in with my "real" experience with so many types of becket skimmer designs with or without the addition of the funnel/tappering. it is not a matter of easier wet foam collection when a design like this is implemented ..i think we r not aiming at getting wet foam, but stable foam! and from my experience, a tapper neck does somehow, in it's miraculous "H&S and Deltec" way, produces a very stable foam head..minimal turbulence, minimal ups and downs....of coz with stable foam head, u can adjust to collect easily, "wet" or dry foam..so u r not wrong to make ur conjecture this way... btw, have you design a becket before or try to make one urself?? if you have di before, have you varied some conditions within the design to test out various theories practically? or is it just off the shelves skimmer you played with or some literature you read online?? some dudes in RC slam becket design for needlewheel eurureef becoz he din have much exp with the former skimmer..wat a con!

I do agree with you that you could pin point skimmer design issues using your 12" bubbleking as a reference.. ie..if the 12" scum maker doesn't have this feature, so, well, nothing much to say about ur skimmer which does have this feature....needlewheel is king just as "bubble-kings"!

i read about this skimmer online elsewhere and was amazed by the quality!! ..but wat happen to deltec, the brand you once swore ur life to? is it not as good as bubbleking?? how bad is it in terms of perfomance comparison between similar units?? and in wat way is it not as good as bubble king for whichever design flaw you can point out? i'm keen to know..btw, how much did u pay for the 12" BK?? and who is selling it??i have not touch this forum in detail for a long time..so i do not know exactly who distribute this king...you sure will help boost the sales by bringing in more of your inputs!!

i wished i had a bubble king ....i had an aerofoamer for try once..I fudge numerous aerofoamers and i fudge even the latest design implementation to the new series of aerofoamer....sadly the skimmer has some flaws which i hope the becket skimmer design commitee (is there such a thing) can resolve in future designs...and i won't use Aerofoamer as the industrial standard for becket skimmer designs..knowing the same problems that can occur to it too...

i wished i had a ferrari too!

[patrick123]

I think this is Yoshire Terrior right? Last time wanted to get one but it is expensive and look fragile due to the small size.

BTW, what is the skimmer diameter? 10inch or 12inch?

[alanseah]

Roidan, 1 question to ask you.. What made you decide to go with the monster powerhungry project instead of getting a big Bubbleking or Deltec?

AlfaRomeo to ans your question, well I must say this is personal point of view..

What turn down alot of ppls on the BK is mostly due to the cost.. if let say BK now cost around 1K, my guess is everyone here will be rushing for the BK after the pic viewing and the big wow...

But alot r still on the "safe" side to the becket because it's a proven and well know to work skimmer.. many has see it and not to mention our AT here using one and proof it with his tank...

As for BK alot have see pic of it but not many have really see it in action and how long it can perform. So it can be a risk.

Also alot r also turn down by becket even is a real gd skimmer because of the power hungar and stick to H&S and other skimmer which is also a proven good skimmer..

so end of the day it's all depend on one needs and capable of owning which skimmer.

[Fuzz]

AlfaRomeo to ans your question, well I must say this is personal point of view..

What turn down alot of ppls on the BK is mostly due to the cost.. if let say BK now cost around 1K, my guess is everyone here will be rushing for the BK after the pic viewing and the big wow...

But alot r still on the "safe" side to the becket because it's a proven and well know to work skimmer.. many has see it and not to mention our AT here using one and proof it with his tank...

As for BK alot have see pic of it but not many have really see it in action and how long it can perform. So it can be a risk.

Also alot r also turn down by becket even is a real gd skimmer because of the power hungar and stick to H&S and other skimmer which is also a proven good skimmer..

so end of the day it's all depend on one needs and capable of owning which skimmer.

hmm... Alfa bro.... I think your Beckett is gd already... save your $$

[AlfaRomeo]

$? wat $? I dead-broke liao... hehehe... must start selling all my unused equipment to generate $ for food....

[roidan]

haha...okok...

hereby submit my thesis on why i chose the beckett way

why i chose to go the beckett way over a needlewheel such as bubbleking....

firstly, i asked myself, how much would a deltec/H&S/bubbleking cost if it was built to over 2m high and 10inches wide....

and to logically go by proportion, if my 66.5cm high and 15cm wide H&S uses 38W of needlewheel action (excluding the

feed pump)...by volume of water in the skimmer structure, i would need a high wattage needlewheel pump or pumps to sustain

bubble density in a skimmer 2m high even if i choose the needlewheel way.

The bubbleking 650 extern stands at 85cm...abeit a wide 12inch chamber...but the absolute volume in this skimmer is much much

less than a skimmer built to over 2 metres and 10inch wide...and it consumes 2x58W of red dragon pumps....

Volume of my skimmer= pi x r x r x h = 101341 cubic centimetres

Volume of the 650 extern BK = same formula = 62021 cubic centimetres

in other words...my skimmer is 63.3% bigger than the 650extern BK

But how much does the 650extern BK cost in their website? a cool EURO4927....which means SGD$10,194.26

my skimmer cost will probably be just about 20% of the 650extern at SGD$2k odd

So now you look at the size and price....definitely one would accept a skimmer that is 63% larger and yet cost only 20% of the other

with a price difference of $7000-$8000....even if i run 2 super hungry iwaki pumps...it's probably gonna take more than 10 years before the 650extern

becomes a cheaper option....just like what i did for comparison between iwaki and RD pumps...it's the same theory....u can plot a graph yourself with different

starting costs and incorporate different running costs and you will know where is the cut off year before they meet each other....i am lazy

to plot this graph....but if for a smaller cost difference between an iwaki and RD have led me to realise it takes 2-3 years before

the RD is a cheaper buy+running option.....the 7000-8000 difference will definitely take more than 10 years to make up for.

And worse...if the bubbleking is built to the volume of my skimmer, it will probaby cost around SGD$16,657 by proportion.

wow...that means the difference becomes SGD$14,000 compared to my skimmer.

$14,000 of cost difference, it's going to take hell lot of years to make up for even with rising PUB tariffs.

Now the next question is, even if they are the same size, probably the BBking can squeeze more air and water into the structure using the highpowered, efficient but terribly expensive RDs...

which is why non BBking designs like mine have to use the cheaper iwakis....2 mx100s to produce as much bubble density as the energy saving RDs.

not convincing? let me throw in 4 mx100s to the equation or 2 mx250s instead to produce as much, if not more, bubble density if reefers are totally hyped up

about bubble density. Bottom line is that it is still going to take YEARS or DECADES to make up for the SGD$14,000 difference in cost between

the 2 same size 2over m high skimmers

just like alanseah said in a way....to each his own....a very efficient honda s2000 engine can produce about 100bhp/litre of engine capacity without

turbocharging or supercharging....that is very efficient. A dodge viper engine is 8.3litres but only produce 500bhp...i.e. 60bhp/litre

the efficient s2000 engine is likened to the BK.... efficient....100bhp/litre....just like high flow/watt

the dodge viper is totally brute like becketts....big...inefficient.....60bhp/litre....just like lower flow/watt comparitively

IF the 2 are equally priced, of coz EVERYONE will go for the efficient BBking skimmers...but the sad fact is that

if a dodge viper only costs 20% of the honda s2000.....i am sure many would get the SUPER THIRSTY dodge viper...why?

because when the car is scrapped at the end of 10 years....the dodge viper which only costs 20% of the honda s2000 is still

a cheaper cost PLUS running option...

but fortunately, the honda s2000 is much cheaper than the dodge....which makes total sense to buy it....spend less...get a much efficient option..

and when you plot the cost PLUS running for the dodge and honda.....the honda will ALWAYS be cheaper and they will never meet while the dodge graph

shoots towards the skies. Why? because BOTH COST and RUNNING are low for the honda.

But in this case of the skimmers, sadly the BBkings start off with astronomical COST and they have to wait a while...in some cases longer

than others, before proving that they are the CHEAPER LONG TERM OPTION

[lvcap]

just to add my 2 cents worth..

i am using a beckett 648 right now..

with an extremely high bioload considering my tank size....and i feed tons of food to my fishes everyday..twice or even thrice daily when i am free..

food includes..tons of Ml's receipe..cyclo and pellets..

my water turn milky and takes abt 15 minutes to clear up..

my tank has no DSB and is only 7 weeks old..

but my beckett has performed very well..keeping my no3 at 5ppm..

it was even at a low of 2.5ppm last week but i intensified the feeding this week in order to tempt my AT further to feed..with some success already..

i cant comment on the other skimmers like euroreef and BB...but i seriously think that a beckett is good enuff...with a high bioload and so much feeding..its at 5ppm...and i have never changed my water since day 1...all relying on the beckett to do the work...no DSB, no Refugium...

[roidan]

But make no mistake..i got nothing against bubblekings...i am very much in awe with the efficient performance...take nothing away from the germans...in fact i am very infatuated with germany technology and engineering precision.

if there is a 2m tall bubbleking that maybe cost 4k-5k, even though twice the price of my QUADbeckett ..i will gladly pay for it...anytime baby....anytime

we can safely say that both beckett and needlewheel methods have their followers and both methods are in a way at their peak of delivering perfomance in a reef tank...from satisfied testimonials

as such...if the long term price difference is not too much even considering cost plus running, it will be indeed a headache to discern and choose between the 2 types..

but if the price difference is as much as one costing only 20% of another, then i am afraid that even if the grossly expensive method has an advantage in performance...it is definitely not going to justify the large gap in price

[roidan]

anyway, i tot the bubblekings also taper at the collection cup?

main body tapers to a smaller diameter tube to go into the cup...

[roidan]

essentially the same thing isn't it...

main chamber tapers via a gradual taper to a smaller tube to go into the cup?