** IMPORTANT : PLS READ!!! **

[Dinosaur]

sorry dino, i dun get the legal issues!

but i got one>

No shop names are mentioned in my personal view.  yet!

All in Good Faith

Reef On

Hahaha ....... Dun worry, it is not our job to understand what the law trying to say, just need to be aware

Leave it to the judges and lawyer

[junlover]

wow wow my "Blacklisted LFS" thread actually led to so many issues in e background.

well,but i do believe there is speech freedom in Sg. eg. SPeakers's corner~!

What if e LFS owner actually misled newbies when buying fishy~

(eg. false clown sell u at true clown pricing)

i heard tis frm somewhere,tis is considered a "personal/private transaction",the police wuld not interfere such cases.

den hw??

[bawater]

pospeh- keeping to facts,.....no more Good Faith(sorry Dino,boh pak kai leow)

i think the posts/complaints usually happen after someone paid for it.

does that then become a fact? does it then come under consumer rights?

i would think this would be positive criticism & whoever affected would take it into consideration to improve their services,isn't this what u call a retail outlet-providing the customer with a service or goods? or is a retail outlet slogan meant to be, u want buy-not happy go fly kite. i think i want to open shop & charge everyone $50 per 2kg bag of red sea salt. pls lend me your support k.

oh yeah!- can be used for cooking too!

The negative things said or happened don't just happen once..its repeated over & over again for yrs. i put it down to not enough competition.

So back to the facts,we shouldn't warn future hobbist of bad deals,wrong equipment,sick fishes,dead corals,dodgy prices,bad atitudes means we shouldn't praise any place as well right?

Everwhere no comments.

We should just stick to Buy first-find out later.

ok ok! tomorrow i go fly kite & keep the money in my pocket too.

i think there is no such thing as freedom of speech. It was made up by a fairy. but then again ................i think too much.

Reef on

[divinesloth]

I think its not that we cannot post negative things like "###### charged me $50 for a clown". These are facts and cannot be considered as defamation. Its replies like "yeah, ###### is shit. They always overcharge. ######'s shop is a joke". These comments are too general and we do not know if its a fact so can be considered defamatory...I think. I no lawyer....just a bloody designer ;p

[kelstorm]

The argument was "its the internet - the WHOLE world can see the negative comments." Yeah but... if you get GOOD comments - the WHOLE world can see it too!

I understand that your comments made are affecting their ricebowl but that should highlight the ROOT of the PROBLEM. The LFS should solve THAT and IMPROVE their shop's reputation and they'll be praised till thy kingdom come!

The government has been trying to improve the service quality of retail outlets and service outlets in SG for a long time... courtesy campaign... haha... remember the lion? Courtesy and etiquette should be from within. Rudeness and charging $1800 for a sump (example) will only beget negative feedback!

What say you?

i agree completely.. just wondering how come no word of thanks when we praise them for good service but when we complain of bad service, we get the stick? since the prices are so competitive, they should look into improving their service quality to make them stand out from the rest..... afterall, i do believe that for good service, i dun mind paying a bit more.. but not when i get bad service and have the pay the same price for it.. no way... <_<

[TTBoy]

How abt this, to keep LFS honest, we can post prices of their stuff online. Nothing wrong in doing that right? Look at hardwarezone, u can get prices of everything.

[Achilles Tang]

If I am not wrong, the HWZ forums also got lots of feedback on shop experiences... and not all of them are GOOD!

[Fishfreak]

Perhaps we should :

A) Observe certain guidelines when posting about our not-so-pleasant experience with LFS

and

Take certain 'precautions' ourselves when dealing with ALL LFS.

Here are my thoughts:

1) Speak only the truth, state only the facts. I'm sure we all do these.

2) Ask LFS to issue receipts with proper description of items purchased both LS, drygoods or service rendered. (Heck, we'll helping them practise proper accounting practice and the IRAS too!). This, I think, is the best 'precaution' on matters related to price.

3) If we have been quoted prices that are 'questionable', go ahead and post, but phrase your post something like that: "###### LFS quoted $10 for a blue devil damsel. Do you think this is a reasonable price?" But, do bear in mind, that if you bought it then complain about the price, you have yourself to blame and no one else. But of course, you'd be doing a service to the rest of us by asking questions like the above.

4) Service-wise, if you are not happy, why not describe what happened and ask others to judge? Hey, you didn't say you received bad service right?

5) On advices, again, post the advice that the LFS provided and ask others to provide feedback. You don't have to say if the advice is good or bad. Eg: "ABC LFS said I can keep flame angels together with my children's FW angelfish. What do you guys think. It doesn't sound right to me." We'll all be laughing on the floor.

If you have something nice to say about the LFS, ask them what's in it for you first before you post

FF

[Achilles Tang]

..

[jason]

AT,

I think it would not be anything against the law to let everyone know who is the LFS that call u.....

do let us know. we want to share with you.

[Achilles Tang]

It's not a LFS.... it's just a friendly advice from a distributor friend who used to run a LFS. It's based on feedback he got.

[Shark]

It's a FORUM here, just like the "Straits Time".

Should whoever is not agreeable to whatever is posted here, he or she is welcome to clarify.

Know it's not America here, but I'm in for freedom of speach,

er . .. should it be freedom of posting

Prehaps AT should have a "disclaimer" before anyone can log in to post.

[flubberina13]

Sigh...Just when things are going and we are looking to celebrate the 1st year Anniversary...These have to happen!!!

Offering layman views... Indeed, certain LFS can so petty!!! Can't they understand the principles of business? Offer good services and reasonable prices, customers will flock to them, irregardless of distance too. It's a long term relationship to be had between both parties as keeping marine lish is not at one's whims and fancies in the first place...

However, just reflect upon this...before the next tidal wave happen, there will be small waves paving its way...Thus...I believe SRC is hooking on to BIGGER things in the near future...so P.U.S.H On...(Pray Until Something Happens)...

SRC Banzai!!!

[diabolus]

shark and flubberina...

pls check the date of the threads posted 1st before replying...

[flubberina13]

Oops!!!Thousand Apologies!!!Hope that things has been settled!

[Achilles Tang]

Hahahha!!! These were teething pains when we first started. I guess the industry and SRC's pretty comfortable with each other now.

[Nalin]

Hi All !

Yes i agree that if what we say is the truth there is nothing to worry about..as long its nothing but the truth !

But in this Forum there might also be a few "Undercover LFS" that has been posting, no one can stop them.

As a businessman themselve you cannot blame them for where their Stand is.Imagine, whether is there overpriced , not level playing field,there is nothing we can do.It all about survival...anyway am just a consumer.

All we need is to be consciously aware and buy things with our eyes wide open

At the end as long as its the truth there is nothing wrong with that...if the LFS have our interest and heart of the consumer , they should not be afraid to have their names mention in the open.

In the end its all about our hobby "Reef-Keeping" making it enjoyable & economical.

Any comments ?

[Nalin]

Hi All !

Forget to add that i believe all members here would also prefer the price to dip instead of skyrocketing.

But to be fair to LFS they also need to make ends meet.And we all here do not want to see too much disparity in prices amongst all the LFS.

I know i one person cannot do something but alot of people can do many things as long we dont do it in the open.Dont you agree A.T ?

I guess its all about education.I must say i learnt alot from here not just in term of Reef-keeping knowledge but also where to get the same stuff at alot more cheaper price.

I guess in view of NEMO craze many NEWBIES will be the blind following the blind...its very Sad but i hope this website will also provide an avenue whereby NEWBIES will also pick up the knowledge fast and succeed at the expense of those Senior reefers who have Fail many times before ( financially & knowledge )

I guess many of us here in one way or the others will tend to compare prices from a consumer point of view.And from a NEWBIES point of view they do not have the experience to do that ...and that is sad if this site cannot provide them a platform

to learnt ( not knowledge but how a LFS here operate ).

I sincerely hope that this site do not become a business entity and wish that it become as trasparent as its now .I must say thanks to AT and the moderators here for doing a good job..i must say i love your site !

Nalin

In the interest of the Consumer heart

[DeepBlue]

But in this Forum there might also be a few "Undercover LFS" that has been posting, no one can stop them.

Agree...I definitely believe that we can't stop any LFS undercover bosses fr surfing this site as guest...

I recently heard from a source one boss from one of our favourite farms talked behind his customers, accusing them of being spies for other farms and LFS just because he met them at the other shops and farms....

..I think it is ridiculous to think that we reefers only go to a single location to buy our stuffs......shows how naive and simple minded this guy is...........

...btw....many of us are working professionals and students...where got time to take up part-time job as spies....good grief.............

[anton2772]

Guess what?

Today I got a phone call warning me to control you guys abt your comments.

Seems like a few LFS are quite unhappy abt the sharing that has been going on here... ie. bad experiences like being overcharged, sold defective or inadequate stuff, given bad advice, being treated rudely etc.

So the issue is how do they determine what is truth? How do we determine truth and hearsay or lies? How can you and I, as consumers, protect ourselves and others from experiencing what we went through? By keeping quiet?? How do we protect ourselves and our wallets?

We, as Asians, usually do not like to confront the LFS owners directly. So we speak amongst our friends and we warn people to avoid unpleasant encounters in future. Nothing wrong with that.

So feedback is a double-edged sword - the shops can choose to improve themselves after listening to feedback here or they can choose to be upset and make things difficult for everyone here.

Likewise, when a shop gets good reports & recommendations from our members here... do they say anything?

We are all entitled to free speech, you only need to worry if you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt what was experienced, heard or said with your experiences in our LFS, if they so happen to want to bring you to court. That is... you are out to defame them by telling lies or mistruths.

Out of court, it's a matter of looking behind your shoulders. Hee hee!

If there is any legal counsel here in SRC, I would appreciate your input on matters of defamation and damages, especially with online postings. I know my rights as the owner of this forum and I have posted the terms and conditions for use and disclaimers necessary ie. everyone is responsible and liable for the content they posted.

The issue here... where does commercial censorship lies, who has the right to determine it, should we allow it, what are our legal rights are as individuals, what are our freedom of speech rights are and what would be the most prudent course of action.

Pls speak out! For SRC!

In the meantime, perhaps it would be prudent not to name names... use code or 'vague descriptions' if you must give negative feedback on LFS experiences.

AT

[Dispar_Anthias]

Agree...I definitely believe that we can't stop any LFS undercover bosses fr surfing this site as guest...

I recently heard from a source one boss from one of our favourite farms talked behind his customers, accusing them of being spies for other farms and LFS just because he met them at the other shops and farms....

..I think it is ridiculous to think that we reefers only go to a single location to buy our stuffs......shows how naive and simple minded this guy is...........

...btw....many of us are working professionals and students...where got time to take up part-time job as spies....good grief.............

Haiz wonder what is the world becoming into

[soggy]

just thought i'd ask. AT, have they ever called you to thank you for the publicity they get from the various posts within this forums? till they do that, i feel that we're on par.

[stitch_&_milo]

If lfs wants to complain to AT abt the comments the members post, make sure they thanks AT about the good comments the members post ! then it fair.

[Achilles Tang]

SOME people can't take any criticism... especially those who have been in the business for a long time.

SOME are more humble and admit their mistakes/short-comings and are open to suggestions.

SOME are actually conscientious enough not to sell to people who don't have the right setup/knowledge even if they have the money.

I think many of us know which shops are these.

[stitch_&_milo]

*nod* *nod*