Is it worth buying Denitrator or just use AZ-NO3?

[kschew1498]

Was thinking to get a Macro Denitrator but heard that AZ-NO3 is very effective.....so is in a dilemma now.....wonder is it worth investing one......

Was wondering if any reefers can share your experience, both user of Denitrator and AZ-NO3??

Appreciate your inputs....

[terryansimon]

de-nitrators are damn hard to tune supposedly. and if anything goes wrong...urh...well...catastrophe?

I'd rather you do it the natural way. water changes/DSB/nutrient export/live rocks/better skimmer. save money in the long run. except for the water changes part.

[Chris]

Nitrate is not difficult to control. With discipline on stocking and feeding, with DBS, LR and Ref, most tanks can bring it to zero to 5 ppm within a few months. If the system cannot sustain it at zero, look at natural ways to do it. Using a de-nitrator to bring it down means the system is producing too much waste. If this is so, even if you bring Nitrate down with equipment, you still have high DOM, PO4 and others.

2 cts

[tineng]

AZ-NO3 is very effective and you can slowing wean yourself out of it when your tank mature......but make sure that your tank is well oxyenated and has a skimmer.....if not -- disaster

[alanseah]

u suffering from no3 problem..??

so far from what I know AZ-NO3 do have some side effect..

but alot have use it with gd result.. but it's not a immediate stuff will take u up to 2 weeks or more to see result..

[kschew1498]

You think so? ...you are probably right......even with Denitrator....still must use Reduct-starter and Denito-energy tablets......wonder what are these......pai say I am pretty ignorance about all this stuff.

By the way...catastophe??? ...how serious could that be.....?

[kschew1498]

u suffering from no3 problem..??

so far from what I know AZ-NO3 do have some side effect..

but alot have use it with gd result.. but it's not a immediate stuff will take u up to 2 weeks or more to see result..

Ya lor.....always at 12.5.....doesnt seem to be able to drop to zero......very fustrating!.......I am changing water twice every week.....2 red pail each time!

Have also listen to your advise.....change the filter wool, clean the PS....I even reduce my brine and mysis shrimp feeding to once in 2 days....and mainly feeding my tangs with lettuce!!! Sigh!

[tineng]

You think so? ...you are probably right......even with Denitrator....still must use Reduct-starter and Denito-energy tablets......wonder what are these......pai say I am pretty ignorance about all this stuff.

By the way...catastophe??? ...how serious could that be.....?

if i'm not wrong, Reduct-starter are bacterial and Denito-energy tablets is some carbon source for the bacterial.....AZ-NO3 works by feeding the bacterial with 'food' and causing it to mulitiply....

with enough baterial, NO3 will drop.....however, these baterial also consume oxygen, so if there is not enough oxygen in the water, your fish will start dying.... (i found it the hard way)....

I also heard that denitrator will give out some toxic gas if not configure properly....but then have not done enough reading on it to tell you anything....

[alanseah]

well u can give AZ-NO3 a try... where u can get it.. me also thinking of testing it out and check what it is like...

As from what I know Randy did mention to me once that water change does will not solve your no3 problem...

[kschew1498]

hehehe....I heard before can also use sugar......try once but didnt dare to try again!.......

Hmmm....so AZ-NO3 is like enzyme???? I have got a small red plastic tub that I bought from a LFS previously and was informed it is good to multiple the bacterial for new tanks. Use only once on my new tank and than totally forgot about it!.....

[alanseah]

sugar does effect but Dr Randy has once try it out and most of his sps turn brown... lolz.. do note sugar will also be comusme by your coral which result them become brown...

As for AZ-NO3 I believe it more like a carbon source then enzyme.. the best and testing is by growthing marco algae.. but of coz not letting them go asexual or die off..

[alanseah]

Another thing I know that mention it work is Fritz-Zyme

[terryansimon]

care to share why water changes will not solve NO3 problems?

to my best re-collection, it does help to a certain extent. the water change is suppose to give whatever media *be it macroalgae, DSB, LRs or whatever* get the advantage and reduce the smaller amounts of NO3 first. or something along those lines. which is why people actually recommend a water change of 50% to 70% after your tank is cycled to lower the perversely high NO3, so that you other media has a chance to reduce it.

or am I wrong? (=

[kschew1498]

care to share why water changes will not help reduce NO3?

Sigh! Honesly I wish I know......I have got everything.....DSB, Sump, reasonably good PS, reasonably good water flow, controlling my feeding, 7 fishes only but 5 are tangs hahaha , 7 cleaner shrimps to finish up any uneaten food, pretty regular change on fliter wool.......what else I miss....

Maybe I do not have enough "sea grass" in my refugium .....only one rock....the rest I throw away after clearing up the red slimy algae (somebody say I phew into it... ).......

What else I miss or I overlook it.....

[ryz]

maybe he means it doesn not solve the root of the problem... it's a temporary superficial means of bringing down NO3

[alanseah]

Well I'm not sure.. maybe you can ask Dr Randy...

and this is what he told me..

"Water changes aren't a very good way to reduce nitrate, IMO.

How long it takes to reduce nitrate depends on the growth rate of the macroalgae (if that is the approach you are taking) and how much nitrogen containing food you are adding at the same time."

[kschew1498]

Or SHIT...it is my inaccurate Topic Marine test kit.... ....Cannot be ma.....quite popular right???

[terryansimon]

I think I know why. coz its quite expensive for water changes. factor in salt and anti-chlorine consumption rate....

and its only less effective if you employ the dilution method...which I don't.

[kschew1498]

Ah....sorry huh....who is Dr Randy?? .....You think I call him tonight...

[terryansimon]

extracted from saltaquarium.com

Many people try to reduce their nitrate levels by performing a series of partial (20%) water changes. This will reduce your nitrate (or any other chemical substance) levels, but it is rather inefficient if the object is to reduce the levels to near zero in the shortest period of time as possible, with the least amount of water. On the other hand, if you reduce the level of water in the tank to 20% of normal and then refill the tank to a 40% level, you have already reduced your nitrate levels by half.

If you then refill the tank to the 100% level, your nitrate levels will be 20% of the original level that you started out at. If, on the other hand, you reduce the 40% water level once more to 20% and then refill the tank, you will end up with a nitrate level of 10% of what you started with. Perform the 40% to 20% reduction once more, and you will end up with a nitrate level of 5% of what you started with. Just think about it for a minute. If you started out with a nitrate level of 100 ppm and used this method, your 100 ppm nitrates would be reduced, in a short period of time, to 5 ppm, which is considered, by most, to be an acceptable level even for corals.

High nitrate accumulation, sometimes referred to as old tank syndrome, can be a common problem for long time aquaria keepers. It usually occurs when regular maintenance and water change routines are ignored. As an experiment, we allowed our tank nitrates to rise to a dangerously high level, literally off the scale, to observe the transitions the tank would go through. The experiment was successful in that it allowed us to observe the formation of the different algae. When our experiment was over, we decided to try out this instant nitrate reduction water change method that had been contemplated for some time. Performing the water change method shown in the animated graphic below, we reduced our nitrates quickly to zero with no ill or harmful effects to any of our established aquarium residents; a 15" Snowflake Eel, some various types of hermit crabs and snails, a few crabs, two colonies of Zoanthid, some non-living corals, and some live rock. The behavior of the tank inhabitants improved greatly afterwards as well. They began to be more active, started eating better, and had brighter colors within a few days. We even added a new mated pair of Coral Banded Shrimps the day after completion of the water change procedure, with no problems at all.

Some people have expressed concern that the rapid reduction of nitrates would "shock" the tank critters. This is an understandable concern, but under the circumstances wouldn't you think that the rapid reduction of potentially harmful toxins in a tank to be of the utmost importance, and a lot less harmless? It would be like standing in a closed garage with a car engine running, filling the garage with carbon monoxide, and someone telling you not to open the garage door; that the rapid reduction in carbon monoxide levels would in some way be more harmful to you than only reducing their levels by 20%. If it was me in that situation, I would kick the door open as far as it would go.

To avoid the urgent need to have to reduce high toxic nitrate levels quickly, it is much easier to following regular maintenance and water change routines. If you are in a position where everything you have tried does not seem to work and your nitrates continue to be a problem, you might try this water change method out. We wanted to see what the results and effects would be of performing this water change process as quickly as possible. No problems resulted. However, if you are concerned about "shocking" your tank inhabitants, you can always perform this process over a period of time (waiting a few days between each water change process) until the nitrates are reduced.

Happy Fish & Reef Keeping,

Stan Hauter

Your About Guide to Saltwater Aquariums

[alanseah]

well whatever it is... every system will face this no3 problem down the road... some get over it while others forever have with it..

I have taken Dr Randy advise and start growthing macroalgae... and from what I learn from him.. you must try to get your macroalgae growth fast.. the faster they grow the more nitrogen export is done...

if you have a macroalgae that never die but never growth it's as gd as useless...

so start growing macroalgae and make them grow and grow...

[alanseah]

Ah....sorry huh....who is Dr Randy?? .....You think I call him tonight...

O sorry to tell you..

he is from the state...

A well know and respect guy and he is a Chemist (Drug Discovery at Genzyme)

[alanseah]

maybe you can go read on his article on N03...

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

[tineng]

Sigh! Honesly I wish I know......I have got everything.....DSB, Sump, reasonably good PS, reasonably good water flow, controlling my feeding, 7 fishes only but 5 are tangs hahaha , 7 cleaner shrimps to finish up any uneaten food, pretty regular change on fliter wool.......what else I miss....

Maybe I do not have enough "sea grass" in my refugium .....only one rock....the rest I throw away after clearing up the red slimy algae (somebody say I phew into it... ).......

What else I miss or I overlook it.....

you might want to ask bro josha how he keep his tangs.....he never feed them, just let them eat whatever that is in his tank....very impressive....

apparantly his nitrate level is keep to undectable level...!!!

[kschew1498]

O sorry to tell you..

he is from the state...

A well know and respect guy and he is a Chemist (Drug Discovery at Genzyme)

.... .....damp maru.....I thought some professor locally......

Thanks .....dont tell people hor....

Anyway, Terryansimon and Alan.....thanks for all this infor......didnt know this posting could end up so educative for me.....thanks guys! Really appreciate that!