Cynide caught or hand caught ?

[blackpuma]

Hi Bros,

When I first started to keep marines several years back, Almost all of the fishes from the Phillipines and Indonesia were cynide caught.

Fishes from the Red Sea and Americas were mostly hand caught, that's what the LFS store claims.

I beleive the situation now is much better although I suspect cynide caught fishes are still rampant in the trade.

Several LFS store I visited recently told me thier LS is clean caught.

IMHO, it is very difficult to diffrentiate between clean caught and cynide caugth fishes, It is up to the LFS to tell you how thier fishes are caught, or worst still some LFS don't even know.

Since I am coming back to this hobby it would be interesting to bring this subject out as it always saddens me to see LS die in tanks with perfect water quality. It is also an ethical issue and we should not support these eco damaging collecting methods.

Will any bros here care to share their experiences on this issue ?

Regards,

blackpuma

[sps_dude]

its nearly impossible for us to tell wether the fish is caught using cyanide or hand caught.... unless we have the luxury of time to really obsereve the fish........ cyanide caught fish dont show symptoms until at least months later when they suddenly die...... all we can do is to trust the LFS...... thats why choosing a LFS is said to be like choosing a wife/gf must choose properly in order to have long term hapiness....... hope it helps

[patrick123]

Well in my opinon, I think there are tell tale sign that you can see whether a fish is cynide caught. Look at the fish in the eyes and see if it is alert. If it is very conscious of the surrounding and very alert, it is a good fish.

In any case, the safest is to go with LFS that you can trust, and sometime means you have to pay more money so that to ensure the stock is good.

[fangtooth]

for me i strongly believes not all are hand caught...even in the tank takes you hours to catch, imagine in the ocean...

[terryansimon]

it can be done. hand caught that is.

divers work in groups maybe? maybe the nets they wield are ten feet across in length? the possiblities are limitless! (=

[Maxima]

IMA testing of 48,000 fish in the Philippines shows that 25% of aquarium fish destined for the US and Europe, and 44% of live groupers and humphead wrasse going to Hong Kong were caught using cyanide.

If u take this numbers & compare to Indonesia's trade.................I better keep my mouth shut

Have u think about live groupers at our seafood restaurant...... talk about longterm impact on humans?

Since cyanide poisons all reef animals, the practice of cyanide fishing is disastrous to the health of coral ecosystems. Cyanide fishing is also inefficient because less than half of the fish poisoned with cyanide survive long enough to reach pet shops, and cyanide-caught fish have a reputation for surviving poorly in home aquariums.

How can you tell?

Generally, fish caught with cyanide look as normal as the others. But try to look closer and observe their movement. Two signs: "Erratic looping movements or continuous, repetitive nervous circling and secondly, a suppressed appetite. This is in fact their temporary reprieve; which is why it is important to only purchase full-bellied fish which are accepting food. Often it is the cyanide caught fish's first meal that triggers their ultimate demise. Their damaged kidneys and liver are unable to perform detoxification and the fish is poisoned by it's own wastes."

Another sign would be the surprisingly low price of the fish. "If a fish is being sold at a bargain price, and the store isn't running a sale, then the fish probably isn't a bargain at all. So it pays to always question the health of an unusually inexpensive specimen.

In any case, I see hobbyist driving 20km to another FS that sells the same fish at a $1 cheaper not knowing he already spend $5 on petrol!

If you want to talk about cyanide, let's talk about hobbyist behaviour & education first. Without buyers for net-caught fish, there's "NO" market except for cheap fish on the go

Max

[Vinoth]

On the other day there was a documentary regarding the marine aquarium trading in geographic or discovery..i cant remember. Most of the divers in philliphines use cynaide to catch the fishes. They also shown how its being done. Now they form an association to promote net catching as well as to protect the reef. Cynaide not only affect the fishes but also the corals and others things in the surrounding.

[blackpuma]

I have to agree to a certain extent that the pricing of the fish will be ONE of the many indictaion if it's clean or cynide caught.

OTOH, the variation in prices of the same species could also mean that different LFS has different profit margins. Also they have to recover costs for DOA fish.

In short there is really no sure fire way to tell if the fish is clean or cynide caught by pricing alone. Priing is just ONE of the indication among many others.

There is a certain shop that I visit which sells fishes at rock bottom prices from Indonesia and I could not see any of the cynide caught behavior described here.

I think the question here is how MUCH cynide they are exposed to. If the fish receives enough just to stun them, they will recover and do well in the tank. Fishes that are overdosed with cynide will eventually perish.

My 2c worth

[patrick123]

IMA testing of 48,000 fish in the Philippines shows that 25% of aquarium fish destined for the US and Europe, and 44% of live groupers and humphead wrasse going to Hong Kong were caught using cyanide.

If u take this numbers & compare to Indonesia's trade.................I better keep my mouth shut

Have u think about live groupers at our seafood restaurant...... talk about longterm impact on humans?

Since cyanide poisons all reef animals, the practice of cyanide fishing is disastrous to the health of coral ecosystems. Cyanide fishing is also inefficient because less than half of the fish poisoned with cyanide survive long enough to reach pet shops, and cyanide-caught fish have a reputation for surviving poorly in home aquariums.

How can you tell?

Generally, fish caught with cyanide look as normal as the others. But try to look closer and observe their movement. Two signs: "Erratic looping movements or continuous, repetitive nervous circling and secondly, a suppressed appetite. This is in fact their temporary reprieve; which is why it is important to only purchase full-bellied fish which are accepting food. Often it is the cyanide caught fish's first meal that triggers their ultimate demise. Their damaged kidneys and liver are unable to perform detoxification and the fish is poisoned by it's own wastes."

Another sign would be the surprisingly low price of the fish. "If a fish is being sold at a bargain price, and the store isn't running a sale, then the fish probably isn't a bargain at all. So it pays to always question the health of an unusually inexpensive specimen.

In any case, I see hobbyist driving 20km to another FS that sells the same fish at a $1 cheaper not knowing he already spend $5 on petrol!

If you want to talk about cyanide, let's talk about hobbyist behaviour & education first. Without buyers for net-caught fish, there's "NO" market except for cheap fish on the go

Max

Max,

Well said and I fully agree with you. Personally, I would rather pay a few more bulks to get quality fish, than to get cheap bargain which will die in a few days/weeks.

BTW, since you posted this, can we also assume that fish stock in your shop are all hand caught? If that's the case, I will have to pay more visit to your shop.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Maxima]

Fellow Reefers,

I face the same problems as rest of the supplier faces. If u ask any collector, they will tell u it is net caught......and who knows? It is over time then can anyone determine who the genuine collectors that uses net.............price is another issue. The only way to detect cyanide caught fish is by cross examination on fish internal organs, so to us, there's no way to prove if the collector is using cyanide or not. Another problem with net caught fish is damaged fins, asked any reefer who want to pay premium for a damaged fin fish specimen?

I think net collection is getting common, especially with very rare specimen that can fetch high price. Even with net caught fish, it can die of stress.

Honestly, if you been to Indonesia and see how these collectors work, u sort of pity them, especially being expose to cyanide everyday.................not too sure if they live past 50?

Max

[patrick123]

So the more they should be educated properly so that they don't harm the environment and themselves.

Personally, damaged fin can heal back if the water condition is good. So I have no issue buying a damaged fin fish, provided there is no injury on the body and I know the fish is hand caught.

[blackpuma]

Hi All,

Like most reefers here, I am all for clean caught fishes. I do not mind paying a premium for garunteed clean caugth fishes.

Take the regal angel for example, a species know notoriously for feeding problems in captivity. I beleive it all boils down to the collecting methods. I have kept one for 5 years in the past, surfacing happily everyday to makan flake food. Why is it eating? perhaps I was one of the lucky one that bought a "almost clean" specimen.

With forums like this and many other online resources, keeping marine fishes in no more an art and I beleive it has evolved into a more sciencetific level. Gone were the days when one has to scratch his head and ponder about fish death and nuisance algae.

Regards,

Blackpuma

[FuEl]

Hmm..it's a common misconception that cyanide and anaesthetics are mostly used to catch bigger fish like angelfish, etc. I initially thought that smaller fishes like gobies etc, would be spared being drugged to be captured. I was disappointed to watch a documentary filmed somewhere in the carribean on divers using anaesthetics to catch a burrowing fish. It's not only S.E.A. It's a global problem. Anaesthetics are used mostly to collect expensive or rare specimens that might otherwise be injured using nets. Little do they know anaesthetics have side effects too even though the mortality rates are lower compared to cyanide.