Are this ICH/HLLE?

[aong]

Hi all,

Wonder if anyone can help confirm if this is ICH or HLLE in my tangs, pls? Thanks!

Pic 1. This got HLLE?

Full Sized Pic 1 here.

Pic2. HLLE + Ich?

Full Sized Pic 2 here.

Pic 3. Ideas?

Full Sized Pic 3 here.

Sorry if the pics are a tad small or big (depends on how u look at it ) ...

So is it as bad as I'd feared?

[Godzilla]

from d photos..its ich

[aong]

Yea.. i suspected it's ich... hmm been feeding them w/ garlic-added flakes (formula 2, i think) and they're eating healthily... except the blue tang -- guy's quite picky (prolly coz it's newest to the tank)... rest of the tangs ard 1++ mth 'old'...

So fixable? How abt the lil "line" from head to tail?

[Godzilla]

Yea.. i suspected it's ich... hmm been feeding them w/ garlic-added flakes (formula 2, i think) and they're eating healthily... except the blue tang -- guy's quite picky (prolly coz it's newest to the tank)... rest of the tangs ard 1++ mth 'old'...

So fixable? How abt the lil "line" from head to tail?

if they're eating should have a high chance of recovering, maybe u can try n find out wats stressing them??

think the line is natural??

[vicky]

ich . better becareful. it already spreading. if yours is a coral one, no hyposalinity, only garlic feed will do. medicine wisely maybe can.

[aong]

From what I see ard, it seems that ich's like the end of lifespan for the fishes unless pro-active measures (drastic?) are taken huh?

Does guys like cleaner wrasse, cleaner shrimp, etc help in this sense?

[Marineman]

If you have cleaners shrimp, they should pluck the ich out.

How long have you got all the three fishes or it is as a rsult of a new addition, BT and PBT are prone to ich.

[Marineman]

From what I see ard, it seems that ich's like the end of lifespan for the fishes unless pro-active measures (drastic?) are taken huh?

Does guys like cleaner wrasse, cleaner shrimp, etc help in this sense?

Cleaner wrasse helps but more than majority will not survive for long as they live off parasites with the exception of a few lucky reefers whose cleaner wrasse eats other food. Suggest you stay off this wrasse.

[terryansimon]

cleaner shrimp pluck ich out? urh. you sure about that? no offence, but if that was the case, cleaner shrimps instead of octozin or copper will be recommended for ich clearence.

same goes for cleaner wrasse.

[aong]

Ahh, dun worry, won't be getting a cleaner wrasse -- would a neon blue goby do the job as well? *hopeful*.. gotten one.. anyway it's already eating flakes and all... just hope it's having a sufficient diet.

The 3 fishes are together for quite a short while ... 2 weeks or so?

How abt the line? Hmm, sure hope Godzilla's right w/ it being natural... it kinda look like a scar to me ;(

Even my PBT also got it somehow ;(

[aong]

terryansimon,

perhaps cleaning crew helps on those parasites on the LS itself... but doesn't eradicate the whole problem (ie, tank wide population of parasites)?

[Marineman]

cleaner shrimp pluck ich out? urh. you sure about that? no offence, but if that was the case, cleaner shrimps instead of octozin or copper will be recommended for ich clearence.

same goes for cleaner wrasse.

Mine does pick on them though, the white spots (not ich?).

Do not use copper if you ahve a reef tank, will kill your corals and shrimps.

[terryansimon]

I highly doubt they help eradicate ich. they only clean surface layer parasites.

for if they do, you'll see hospital tanks having ten or more cleaner shrimps instead of copper.

and besides, like I said, if they do clear ich, they'll be well sought after instead of octozin and copper.

my two cents. (=

[aong]

Hmm, doesn't ich start off as surface layer parasites first ah?

Of course, if it 'sinks' deeper.. then.. urm... i also

well, how abt this HLLE thingy? anyone got a pic of how a HLLE victim looks like?

[terryansimon]

aong...like I said the past two times, even if they did clear ich, octozin and copper wouldn't be used. right?

Head Line Lateral something? wild guess?

I suppose you're talking about the yellow tang? doubt it has it. (=

ich looks like its amongst your other tangs. but if they are feeding, you have a chance. keep your waters pristine and try not to agitate your fishes unnecessarily.

[bum]

aong Posted on May 21 2004, 12:01 AM

  Hmm, doesn't ich start off as surface layer parasites first ah?

Of course, if it 'sinks' deeper.. then.. urm... i also 

well, how abt this HLLE thingy? anyone got a pic of how a HLLE victim looks like? 

read up all you need to know about ich here

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm

my atlantic blue had ich when i added some LR a while back,

i used waterlife's myxazin,

next day,

he's back to eating like a pig, now he's ich free.

you might want to try it.

i got mine from ML.

[Marineman]

I highly doubt they help eradicate ich. they only clean surface layer parasites.

It works for me many times.

for if they do, you'll see hospital tanks having ten or more cleaner shrimps instead of copper.

No doubt cooper is the most effective treatment, but how are you going to net the fish out without taking out the rocks for a reef tank. If it is a FOWLR tank go for copper as the shrimps will get eaten any way (assuming FOWLR tanks has shrimp eating fishes as most cases do). Sometimes when there is an outbreak of diseases, if you can allow natural biological system to handle itself the better, of course this may not be always possible.

When I introduced my BT and PT on two separate occasions, both of them have 2 occurence of white spots, I left them alone knowing and actually seeing the tangs being cleaned, after a few days all white spots are gone. I have witnessed not one, twice, thrice but five times.

and besides, like I said, if they do clear ich, they'll be well sought after instead of octozin and copper.

This is not true, there are many methods to cure diseases, if you have a fever, you have a few options, paracetomol, asprin, tiger balm, herbal drink, use of ice packs etc. The shrimps are well sought after for many reasons not specifically for curing white spots only.

[terryansimon]

urh. like I said, if that was the case, people would get shrimps instead. its the most natural method, if it does work. compared to dosing foreign medication.

like I said, I doubt they do clean ich. its quite well documented that they don't. but if yours do, then maybe yours is a unique case of sorts.

and yes I know there are many ways to solve a problem. black or white cat, as long as it catches a rat, is still a cat. the same thing for this case. but like I said in the first paragraph. why resort to dosing something that is foreign and potentiall devastating instead of using shrimps the natural means, if it does work in the first place?

my two cents.

[terryansimon]

for reference...

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/mini3.htm

and

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2004/mini4.htm

extract taken of from mini4.htm

While cleaners will exhibit their instinctual "cleaning" behaviors, do not assume that they eat trophonts, or eat them in sufficient numbers to affect a cure.

there you go.

[Marineman]

"Also continous copper treatment is not good as it affects the tangs digestive system microfauba and chronic copper treatment or toxicity has account for many analomous losses of tangs by disrupting these microfauna. Better first employing a quarantine or dip and second by treatment in a separate vessel. In very large systems, the use of facultative biological cleaner gobies and shrimps."

Above extracted from Robert fenner's book, "The Conscientious marine Aquarist"

My $100 worth.

[RAV-65]

IMHO, the cleaner shrimps dun work all the time... i got a Emperor Juv. some time ago and the cleaner shrimp cleans it all the time until the Emperor like faded in colour and yet still got white spots....

Vincent Ho

[Marineman]

IMHO, the cleaner shrimps dun work all the time... i got a Emperor Juv. some time ago and the cleaner shrimp cleans it all the time until the Emperor like faded in colour and yet still got white spots....

Vincent Ho

I remember you said that before, not all shrimps are congruent. Just like Flame angels, some are reef safe some are not, there you go.

[terryansimon]

its very well known that sources can give wrong and misleading information. I or you may be wrong, we'll never know.

in fact, the links I included even mentioned the use of using anti-malaria medication.

if you want, you can also do a search on this forum. this issue has been discussed again and again and the same conclusion has been reached in all discussions.

regards.

[AlfaRomeo]

Let me try to be adventurous in logic (or maybe hopeful thinking)

Cleaner shrimps / Wrasses has been known not to eat the actual parasites that causes Ich.

Maybe they help in another way/angle. Maybe they eat the parasites which are harming or stressing the fishes while lead to ICH taking a foothold on the stressed fishes?

Thus, when the cleaner shrimps/wrasses eat away the other parasites which is causing the fish stress, the fish will recover and with a healthy immune system will stand a chance at fighing off the ICH or developing immunity to the ICH.

Possible?

[timzhiquan]

so do neon gobies actually eat the ich parasites off the fish?