My Little Box of Water

[R0B]

Agreed, definitely something different compared to the usual yelloweye kole tang from hawaii. i went with the indian ocean white-spotted variant for the same reason. Ultimately they’re all from the same genus though, and yes they’re very diligent at keeping the algae(especially film algae and diatoms) at bay, are slow growers and don’t grow very large so definitely a great tang for smaller setups.
that said, ime while they don’t bother other tangs at all(i can understand most are concerned about tangs going at each other as a commonality in the hobby), they can for whatever reason get very aggressive towards algae blennies and stuff that resembles those in shape, like gobies. my hawaiian kole tang in my older system back then used to chase the salarias blenny till it disappeared whenever it saw it peep out of the rockwork. it didn’t kill it, but the blenny got considerably skinnier after i introduced the kole tang to my system and it had gotten very comfortable.
in my current 6ft, my indian ocean yelloweye kole tang wore down a lagoon goby i had(by chasing it whenever it came out and essentially caused the goby to starve)and eventually murdered it. they seem to be generally very peaceful around tangs from other genus but from what i’ve seen their aggression is underrated when it comes to harassing other fish that it sees as a threat to its supply of algae(especially rock blennies and fish that resemble them in shape).
 
also if i may, for fish stocking, apart from tangs for their utility, you could consider a pyramid butterfly(Hemitaurichthys polylepis) or 2. or 3.(they school, just like anthias, and aren’t heavy eaters like squirrel/soldierfishes. their diet is more akin to anthias). they are perhaps one of the few truly reef-safe butterflyfish out there and definitely not something you see in most reeftanks cause most will just assume all butterflies aren’t reef-safe. also a good conversation piece when others see it in your tank and immediately recognize that it’s a butterflyfish, but how are you keeping one in a tank full of corals!?
 
 
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That is a great suggestion. Thanks!

I was thinking of getting a Starry Blenny so hopefully Mr/Mrs White Tail will get along.

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[soggycookies]

That is a great suggestion. Thanks!

I was thinking of getting a Starry Blenny so hopefully Mr/Mrs White Tail will get along.

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Probably a good idea to get the blenny in first. just my 2c hahahah. What other tangs are on your list?


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[R0B]

I was thinking of a Tomini. I know it is the law to have either a hippo or a purple tang, but I think these three would make an interesting mix. That said, I have been debating if the Yellow Tang and White Tail is actually enough, and simply fill the tank with other types instead.

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[soggycookies]

I was thinking of a Tomini. I know it is the law to have either a hippo or a purple tang, but I think these three would make an interesting mix. That said, I have been debating if the Yellow Tang and White Tail is actually enough, and simply fill the tank with other types instead.

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The tomini is another one i would put in at the same time as the whitetail bristletooth since they’re both in the same genus. i find zebrasoma and ctenochaetus tangs go after algae the most aggressively so just having the yellow tang and whitetail might be swell too.. less to deal with aggression issues


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[simwj]

Objective 4: Ultra Low Nutrients (part 2)

5. FLOW: in my view one of the most important parts of a low nutrient system. I plan on having a lot of flow in the right place.

Consistent flow into the tank is achieved via two return pumps that are connected to flow meters. The flow meters allow you to see not only the volume but also to detect any slowing over time. Is amazing that my old 6000 L/Hr pump on full blast only gives me 1020 L/HR at the return nozzle! Head pressure and restrictions are clearly something you need to consider when you buy a pump for your tank.


The flow meters are great tools, as they allow me to monitor any reduction in flow overtime, thus, indicating when I need to maintain the pump. I simply place alarms on the system to indicate if the flow is too low. The GHL flow meters have no moving parts unlike their Apex equivalent so they don't deteriorate overtime, nor need their own maintenance to ensure accurate measurement. The plan is to get the control system to make adjustments to the pumps automatically to maintain flow (however I don't think I can do that with the pumps I have.... hmmmm maybe time to get a M3 when it comes out hehehe). I also flush the lines into the tank, simply by switching off the return on a regular basis. The backward pressure helps keeps the return lines clearer.

The flow I have is aimed at maintaining a 4x turnover in the sump and 100x flow within the tank. The Tank flow is served by 2x MP40s on each side of the tank, along with 2xSLW20's which are placed on the back wall (which I will move to MP10's in the future... I here there are new MP's coming out soon!). I will also add a Gyre shortly, most likely to the back wall aswell given the depth of the tank, and as such I am thinking about the new Red Sea 45 simply as they are easy to maintain.

6. ZEOVIT REACTOR: The skimz zeovit reactor has auto flushing capability making it ideal for my low maintenance objectives. Use smaller model as it covers the flow rate needed upto 900L tank. Love this little toy.


7. BIO MEDIA: Installing bio media is beneficial, however it needs to be placed in flow areas that allows for the water to be in contact with beneficial bacteria. Placing the media in low flow areas is doing little more than producing a nitrate magnet. As I built a section of the sump to house the media (as well as having bio bricks in other areas)


8. SKIMMER: You may wonder why this is lower down on my list of essential tools for combating nitrites. Well, on my system this is because of the roller mat, refugium and ATS. Given the bioload actually reaching the skimmer there was not enough organics for the bubbles to properly hold their form, as such i had loads of micro-bubbles and hardly any skimmate irrespective of how I control the air flow, water input and water height. The skimmer I had was rated for a tank upto 1500L so much bigger then my system, reducing it down to a skimmer that is rated for my system has improved the skimmers performance. One of the only cases in the hobby where bigger equipment is worse haha. I currently have a tiny Curve 5, which I have to say that it is cracking good skimmer. It has a air hose leading outside to a carbon filter.

The filter is made out of a simple DI replacement canister and was placed on the end of the air tube to reduce any impact of pollution such as when they fog for mosquitos and I forget to disconnect the hose inside.

There are a still a few more tools available to help reduce nitrates and phosphates so will cover the final ones next post.

Until then, happy reefing!

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1) Yep my sump which is on industrial rollers. I just have to undo a few unions and I can roll it out. I have a limiting screw that means it cannot come out too far and place too much streemss on the rollers (or tip over!). There is a handle under the front. However, it moves surprisingly easily. I have on occasion found myself grabbing the actual glass sump and pulling, but then I need to remind myself that that probably isn't the smartest move. I have been thinking of moving it via an actuator, but that is a future project.

2) Why multiple sources of nitrate removal? That is a good question. Plenty of fish but not too many. My objective was to have an overlapping controllable set of tools which need little maintenance. I think the key is to use the tools as needed, not necessarily all at same time. Another key element was to size the tools to solve the problem at hand. Each of the tools, refugium, ats and zeovit can be dialed up or down to meet my needs. My objective was a system capable of zero NO3 and PO4, allowing me to feed aggressively (Heavy in, heavy out), the combination of the tools certainly allows me to do that,but going too low can also cause issues. The zeovit captures the ammonia and produces bacteria. The refugium strips out any remaining nitrates and acts as a filter, it also is a safe place to grow Copepods as food source for the fish (I want a dragonette). The macroalgea will only grow as a function of the available nutrients, so is kind of self limiting. I see that the ATS is a fine tuning device (as i can control size of mesh, lighting schedule and water flow) and will be activated as and when needed. Typically I find an ATS works very well in first year of a tank.

3) Multiple dosers why? I intend to dose calcium chloride, sodium bicarbonate and trace elements. Basically the Tropic Marin balling solutions ABC. Why so many dosing pumps? Well the GHL KH director and ION directors (still on order) are automated testing and control tools. Between them they will automatically test KH, Nitrate, Calcium and Magnesium (as well as sodium and potassium). The GHL systems basically require a dosing unit each to operate; pulling and dispelling water samples, adding reagents or reference liquids. The remaining dosing unit will take the information from the Directors and adjust up or down the necessary dosing amounts of the alk, calcium, magnesium and trace elements.

4) Alkatronic vs KH director? Well I have no first hand experience of the alkatronic, but i hear good things about it (bar its a little noisy). I understand you can connect an alkatronic to an APEX controller via a module in the same way I can connect the KH director to the profilux. Both systems can also be used stand alone. Both the alkatronic and the KH director have dosing pumps that not only draw reagent and sample water but also can be used to add Alk to the tank, controlling the level of dkh if it drops below a certain threshold. They both use reagents in the form of acids that they titrate in sample water until it meets a particular ph, so you need to buy these reagents ongoing. Both have their issues (bubbles in tubes is common issue but both companies say have fixed) and both require a little configuration to get going. Alkatronic needs you to mix its reagent (which to me adds more uncertainty). But overall with regular calibration they do the job if monitoring dkh and keeping it in check.

5) Why not use bigger CR? Calcium and alk demands go up and down. The calcium reactor will do the heavy lifting of adding calcium, alkalinity and trace elements and will be controlled via a continuous dosing pump pulling effluent (with ph set). However, to cope with the increasing or decreasing needs the ION director will control this via direct dosing. Combining the two tools should produce much more stability. For this to work I have to dial back the CR effluent to give me enough room to potentially decrease the amount needed to dose. If I see a trend I can simply turn up or down the amount of effluent out of the CR.

6) QT. Thanks. Yes, If you have bigger fish then yes bigger tanks may be needed. My fish tend to be small juveniles, as I tend to pick fish that look at the correct scale to the DT and my DT isnt huge. But my Tangs all been through it and they are all good. Treating fish prohyliactically allows you to ensure any internal issues are sorted. I think QT is also an art, and I am not skilled enough to spot all potential issues in observation. I try to treat for the most common issues. Does it stress the fish? actually I have not lost a single fish in QT since I started doing this, which I hope means they don't get too stressed. As far as how many I can add. Well this is theoretical as I find I cannot get the fish I want and have to wait to get them into Singapote (anyone have a white tail bristletooth tang?). But I would tend to add slowly and yes typically only add one or two in a batch. But I dont have a fixed number. I think more about how many extra cubes of food I would be adding to the DT and dont want to do more then half a cube at a time.

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Hi there, I've been on this hobby for only 6 months and hit by ich twice heavily. Once hippo tangs (I know.. Sigh) and then an Atlantic blue tang. Been trying to set up a qt procedure since..

However, I've had hit and miss with quarrwntine, with mostly deaths.. I employ a hyposalinity method with tank transfer from pail to pail. Just air-stone in it, 1 seasoned maxspect sphere and I try to do tank transfer every 12 hours.. I employ meds like MB, Prazi gold, paraguard and Ruby rally+kick ich.

Any suggestions/improvements I can do?

I actually do have a 2ft cycled qt tank. My concern is the use of meds in the 2ft..

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[R0B]

Hi there, I've been on this hobby for only 6 months and hit by ich twice heavily. Once hippo tangs (I know.. Sigh) and then an Atlantic blue tang. Been trying to set up a qt procedure since..

However, I've had hit and miss with quarrwntine, with mostly deaths.. I employ a hyposalinity method with tank transfer from pail to pail. Just air-stone in it, 1 seasoned maxspect sphere and I try to do tank transfer every 12 hours.. I employ meds like MB, Prazi gold, paraguard and Ruby rally+kick ich.

Any suggestions/improvements I can do?

I actually do have a 2ft cycled qt tank. My concern is the use of meds in the 2ft..

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Happy to help but there are many good reefers here on the forum so do post openly. I am no quarantine expert, just learning a new side of the hobby. Good news is that there are lots of good information out there. Google Humblefish on reef2reef for expert help. Either way, well done on setting up a QT that is a great first step!! I dont know many people who have a QT let alone someone who has been in hobby just 6m. Wow. I am Impressed.

As you have been hit twice in six months (assume in your DT?) I would suspect that ICH is now in your system and if you dont want to see more fish death then you should go Fallow. No fish in system for 72-96 days. Some people say ICH is manageable and inevitable so why bother. But, the day your tank has an incident that stresses the fish and Poof!! the ICH will come back with evengence. Note. If you do have ICH then moving bio blocks into QT may be an issue not a solution, so keep your QT completely seperate.

You say 'hit and miss' with quarantine. You need to be very regimented with your QT schedule and system. So keeping it stable temp and ph is also important, as well as following set timing. So let's look a little closer...

First off let's look at what you treat with... Hyposalinity, there is some (arguably a lot) of evidence to suggest that this is fairly ineffective on mature ICH. As the ich within gils and borrows beyond the slime coat tends to not be impacted too much. So I would fresh water dip for flukes, but personally I would move to a more aggressive copper treatment in the main QT.

Now the Meds...
Prazi is for worms. Methylene Blue is effective against fungal infections. Seachem Paraguard is a non copper based solution that will treat ICH (treat for 14 days). Ruby Reef's Rally and kick ich combo... Are both copper free treatments designed to cover a broad spectrum of illness including (and specifically) ICH.
So a good collection! I would certainly use the non ich treatments as part of the prophylactic treatments so keep them. However I personally would move to the tried and trusted copper treatment (e.g. cupramine) as my main ICH treatment. Obviously only use for fish that can handle it and keep the paraguard and kick ICH for those that cannot handle copper to well. And I would do this post the TTM.

You mentioned 12 hour TTM. I understand that there may be some logic to that as you said you use pails (so water temperature is a consideration). But fish get stressed when you move them and this reduces their ability to fight off disease. As you have to capture them (not pour) fresh water dip (to ensure no flukes and to stop water transfer), then place them in new water this can increase their stress levels. Also If the water is different temp or PH they will stress them out. It is recommended to leave them for 72 hours in one tank before you move to another tank/pail as so to maximise the ICH lifecycle to best effect. You also have to clean, sterilize and dry old tank well, to be ready for it to be used again.

2ft tank. Is good enough. medicine can be scaled to water amount, So dont worry.
Obviously bigger fish would prefer a larger tank to swim in, but real world constraints often apply. Dont over feed in the smaller tank as if you run copper you cannot run carbon. Suggest you get a good waterfall filter (seachem Tidal or fluval c2?)

Overall you are doing really well. Just some small adjustments. Keep up the good work!



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[soggycookies]

Hi there, I've been on this hobby for only 6 months and hit by ich twice heavily. Once hippo tangs (I know.. Sigh) and then an Atlantic blue tang. Been trying to set up a qt procedure since.. However, I've had hit and miss with quarrwntine, with mostly deaths.. I employ a hyposalinity method with tank transfer from pail to pail. Just air-stone in it, 1 seasoned maxspect sphere and I try to do tank transfer every 12 hours.. I employ meds like MB, Prazi gold, paraguard and Ruby rally+kick ich.  Any suggestions/improvements I can do? I actually do have a 2ft cycled qt tank. My concern is the use of meds in the 2ft.. Sent from Singapore Reef Club mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Just to add on, IME hyposalinity is great for treating ich without using copper and so is ttm, but like Rob said, it stresses the fish out a great deal, especially if you’re doing hyposalinity in conjunction with ttm. it’s great that you have a cycled qt. one thing you could do is dedicate all the media in it as one that will only ever be used for that fish-only QT. most medications like this won’t kill all the beneficial bacteria in the system, mostly just the ones in the water column and not the ones that have already colonized the media(which is where most of them are anyway).  Also ime it’s not a good idea to add that many different meds at once, as the chemicals in each of them may not be compatible with each other and will probably end up stressing the fish further. one example is when cupramine/copper is used together with something like seachem prime, reacting and creating unsuitable water conditions for the fish. 

personally, i find the least hassle-free/stressful method for the fish in qt is to do something like this over the course of 1 month:

 

day 1-3: observe the fish in qt without adding any meds. start feeding sparingly on day 2.

week 1: if fish starts eating, slowly add copper treatment in low doses(brands like seachem instruct for half dosage in first 2 days before going full strength; i typically do this over a 3-4day period gradually before maintaining the recommended dosage instead)

week 2 & 3: leave fish in treated water(copper at 0.3~0.5 mg/l3 and prazi can be used together but i would stay away from adding other meds at the same time) and observe their habits. best results if the fish is quarantined alone, and you can get it used to the foods you feed it too.

week 4: do a water change and make the qt’s parameters(especially salinity, pH and temperature) as close to the display tank’s before adding in after the 1mth of quarantine.

 

i’ve tried hyposalinity, ttm and a steady 1mth qt with copper treatment and imo the last one is the most effective. plus if the fish happens to have velvet(god forbid), you essentially save its life if you immediately start treating with copper in a qt- something hyposalinity is ineffective at treating.

since you already have a cycled qt, you could dedicate it as a hospital tank too, and avoid the need to set one up everytime you run into an issue. the main challenge to this is you probably need to keep it running most of the time, but as long as you keep a steady salinity for it, the bacteria colony in it should survive(of course, the more media in it the better).

 

that said, i wouldn’t expect it to be able to handle the bioload of multiple fish or larger fish(5-6inches and above) in a 2ft system, but if it’s only 1 fish or 2 smaller fish, it should be fine. i would still rely on water changes every few days or so to manage nutrient levels, but also remember to maintain the treatment dosage levels if you’re doing this (cause water changes will no doubt dilute the concentration rendering it less effective or not at all). If your cycled qt has a significant bacteria population or if the bioload is low, this might not even be necessary. depends on the fish you’re qt-ing as well.

 

the most impt(and difficult) thing about qt imo is the patience and diligence to monitor it as much as possible, cause the bottomline is: water quality in a qt is always going to be less stable than that in a main system, meaning more frequent monitoring is to be expected.

 

hope this helps, and best of luck!

and apologies if I’m hijacking your thread[mention=25915]R0B[/mention] :x

 

 

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[R0B]

OBJECTIVE 4: Ultra Low Nutrients (part 3)

9. PHOSPHATE REMOVER: Some phosphate products remove ALL the phosphate, this is not ideal. (WWC actually runs at 0.1). I plan to use of Fauna Marin's Phos 0.04 product. This will allow for a minimal (yet essential) level of phospate irrespective how much of the remover you use. This ideal as I can place in a reactor and replace only when needed (so low maintence).

10. CARBON: A stable water polishing tool for removing particulates, oders, colour pigments, organics and contaminants. It also removes toxins that corals emit as they fight one another. The debate is whether to have it running 24/7 or to use it more sparingly. I would like to think I will use it sparingly, but reality is I am unlikely to change it out oroffstream on a super regular basis.

11. UV: I also plan to use two UV systems running at completely different flow rates and connected to differing parts of the system to keep the tank and fish is good running order. Whilst people debate over UV's it is becoming clearer that there are multiple use cases, and the size and way they are installed makes a big difference to their effectiveness.

The aim is to have One UV in a semi closed loop configuration with the main display (I tried to design the plumbing to do this, but it's not perfect. Looking for a secondhand Deltec 39w which is a long tube thus has a good dwell time). Whilst a second UV will run more typically, taking water from a manifold, and returning it back into the sump. This UV setup is set up for a lower flow rate. Hmmm maybe the larger UV should be used for a slower flow to tackle parasites, and the smaller UV tone used in a fast flow for algea control. Suggestions please!




12. CLEAN SUMP: All sump sections to have a wavemaker (SOW-15) installed so that for 10mins each hour there is agitation. This will keep help keep the sump clean removing detritus buildup.

13. BUBBLE SCRUBBING (optional): Install an air stone in/next to the mouth of the return pump. Switch this on for a few hours at night. Will experiment with timing duration and weekly schedule. Bubble scrubbing allows you to extract toxins, degass co2, slime, algea. Again this is a marginal tool, with some people swearing by it. Will experiment with it and learn accordingly. Everyone's tank is different so it may work well... or may not hahaha


14. OZONE (optional): To get crystal clear water (increases the PAR and Redux), thus reducing organic content. Plan is to use this sparingly. Tie it to my Redox count to keep the water clear. My plan is to switch on for just weekend at the start. It is mainly for astethical reasons to be honest. Does anyone else run ozone??


So these are the main systems I have in place. The next few posts will focus on the tank build...

Until then Happy Reefing!

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[R0B]

 Just to add on, IME hyposalinity is great for treating ich without using copper and so is ttm, but like Rob said, it stresses the fish out a great deal, especially if you’re doing hyposalinity in conjunction with ttm. it’s great that you have a cycled qt. one thing you could do is dedicate all the media in it as one that will only ever be used for that fish-only QT. most medications like this won’t kill all the beneficial bacteria in the system, mostly just the ones in the water column and not the ones that have already colonized the media(which is where most of them are anyway).  Also ime it’s not a good idea to add that many different meds at once, as the chemicals in each of them may not be compatible with each other and will probably end up stressing the fish further. one example is when cupramine/copper is used together with something like seachem prime, reacting and creating unsuitable water conditions for the fish. personally, i find the least hassle-free/stressful method for the fish in qt is to do something like this over the course of 1 month:
 
day 1-3: observe the fish in qt without adding any meds. start feeding sparingly on day 2.
week 1: if fish starts eating, slowly add copper treatment in low doses(brands like seachem instruct for half dosage in first 2 days before going full strength; i typically do this over a 3-4day period gradually before maintaining the recommended dosage instead)
week 2 & 3: leave fish in treated water(copper at 0.3~0.5 mg/l3 and prazi can be used together but i would stay away from adding other meds at the same time) and observe their habits. best results if the fish is quarantined alone, and you can get it used to the foods you feed it too.
week 4: do a water change and make the qt’s parameters(especially salinity, pH and temperature) as close to the display tank’s before adding in after the 1mth of quarantine.
 
i’ve tried hyposalinity, ttm and a steady 1mth qt with copper treatment and imo the last one is the most effective. plus if the fish happens to have velvet(god forbid), you essentially save its life if you immediately start treating with copper in a qt- something hyposalinity is ineffective at treating.
since you already have a cycled qt, you could dedicate it as a hospital tank too, and avoid the need to set one up everytime you run into an issue. the main challenge to this is you probably need to keep it running most of the time, but as long as you keep a steady salinity for it, the bacteria colony in it should survive(of course, the more media in it the better).
 
that said, i wouldn’t expect it to be able to handle the bioload of multiple fish or larger fish(5-6inches and above) in a 2ft system, but if it’s only 1 fish or 2 smaller fish, it should be fine. i would still rely on water changes every few days or so to manage nutrient levels, but also remember to maintain the treatment dosage levels if you’re doing this (cause water changes will no doubt dilute the concentration rendering it less effective or not at all). If your cycled qt has a significant bacteria population or if the bioload is low, this might not even be necessary. depends on the fish you’re qt-ing as well.
 
the most impt(and difficult) thing about qt imo is the patience and diligence to monitor it as much as possible, cause the bottomline is: water quality in a qt is always going to be less stable than that in a main system, meaning more frequent monitoring is to be expected.
 
hope this helps, and best of luck!
and apologies if I’m hijacking your thread[mention=25915]R0B[/mention] :x
 
 
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No worries. The more the better. Glad for your input!! Contradictions with meds is an important consideration. As is bio load so thanks for raising that. We also need to consider that fish produce stress hormones which causes other fish to freak out too. Haha. So keeping fish volume down is a good idea. Agree copper is best being part two of any treatment mechanism. Thanks for adding in, it's only by more people sharing their experiences do we grow and learn.

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[soggycookies]

OBJECTIVE 4: Ultra Low Nutrients (part 3) 9. PHOSPHATE REMOVER: Some phosphate products remove ALL the phosphate, this is not ideal. (WWC actually runs at 0.1). I plan to use of Fauna Marin's Phos 0.04 product. This will allow for a minimal (yet essential) level of phospate irrespective how much of the remover you use. This ideal as I can place in a reactor and replace only when needed (so low maintence).  10. CARBON: A stable water polishing tool for removing particulates, oders, colour pigments, organics and contaminants. It also removes toxins that corals emit as they fight one another. The debate is whether to have it running 24/7 or to use it more sparingly. I would like to think I will use it sparingly, but reality is I am unlikely to change it out oroffstream on a super regular basis.  11. UV: I also plan to use two UV systems running at completely different flow rates and connected to differing parts of the system to keep the tank and fish is good running order. Whilst people debate over UV's it is becoming clearer that there are multiple use cases, and the size and way they are installed makes a big difference to their effectiveness.  The aim is to have One UV in a semi closed loop configuration with the main display (I tried to design the plumbing to do this, but it's not perfect. Looking for a secondhand Deltec 39w which is a long tube thus has a good dwell time). Whilst a second UV will run more typically, taking water from a manifold, and returning it back into the sump. This UV setup is set up for a lower flow rate. Hmmm maybe the larger UV should be used for a slower flow to tackle parasites, and the smaller UV tone used in a fast flow for algea control. Suggestions please!

 

 

12. CLEAN SUMP: All sump sections to have a wavemaker (SOW-15) installed so that for 10mins each hour there is agitation. This will keep help keep the sump clean removing detritus buildup.

 

13. BUBBLE SCRUBBING (optional): Install an air stone in/next to the mouth of the return pump. Switch this on for a few hours at night. Will experiment with timing duration and weekly schedule. Bubble scrubbing allows you to extract toxins, degass co2, slime, algea. Again this is a marginal tool, with some people swearing by it. Will experiment with it and learn accordingly. Everyone's tank is different so it may work well... or may not hahaha

 

14. OZONE (optional): To get crystal clear water (increases the PAR and Redux), thus reducing organic content. Plan is to use this sparingly. Tie it to my Redox count to keep the water clear. My plan is to switch on for just weekend at the start. It is mainly for astethical reasons to be honest. Does anyone else run ozone??

 

So these are the main systems I have in place. The next few posts will focus on the tank build...

 

Until then Happy Reefing!

 

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11. I believe using the larger/more powerful UV with a slower flowrate will definitely be better for parasitic pathogen control, and the faster flowrate on the smaller uv better for algae issues and bacterial blooms. reason being the dwell-time is definitely gonna be longer through a larger/longer unit + with the higher watt output, it’s gonna be able to zap the parasites much more efficiently.  

 

also from what i know the reason most would recommend a high flow through a uv sterilizer for dealing with bacteria blooms is so the unit can process more water more quickly, but it doesn’t take as much power for them to be dealt with as compared to pathogenic parasites, so the dwell time isn’t as pivotal for the former.

 

i’ve never used 2 different uv sterilizers at once before but ime with running the same uv at different flowrates, i’ve found that drastically lowering the flowrate(950 lph on a coralife turbotwist x12) does wonders for pathogenic eradication(visible signs of reduced parasitic infection in all fish like no longer breathing fast, swimming in front of powerheads, scratching or white spots on body) while a faster flowrate(1,800 lph on a coralife turbotwist x12) was effective for algae control and i found myself needing to clean the glass less frequently.

 

based on my observations both low and high flowrates seem to clarify the water and prevent cloudy bacteria blooms the same so i feel the main distinction when installing UV in a system is whether you intend to use it for algae control or parasite control. the toxins and bacteria blooms appear to be the easiest to manage when a UV sterilizer is in the mix

 

just my 2c

 

 

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[R0B]

11. I believe using the larger/more powerful UV with a slower flowrate will definitely be better for parasitic pathogen control, and the faster flowrate on the smaller uv better for algae issues and bacterial blooms. reason being the dwell-time is definitely gonna be longer through a larger/longer unit + with the higher watt output, it’s gonna be able to zap the parasites much more efficiently.   
also from what i know the reason most would recommend a high flow through a uv sterilizer for dealing with bacteria blooms is so the unit can process more water more quickly, but it doesn’t take as much power for them to be dealt with as compared to pathogenic parasites, so the dwell time isn’t as pivotal for the former.
 
i’ve never used 2 different uv sterilizers at once before but ime with running the same uv at different flowrates, i’ve found that drastically lowering the flowrate(950 lph on a coralife turbotwist x12) does wonders for pathogenic eradication(visible signs of reduced parasitic infection in all fish like no longer breathing fast, swimming in front of powerheads, scratching or white spots on body) while a faster flowrate(1,800 lph on a coralife turbotwist x12) was effective for algae control and i found myself needing to clean the glass less frequently.
 
based on my observations both low and high flowrates seem to clarify the water and prevent cloudy bacteria blooms the same so i feel the main distinction when installing UV in a system is whether you intend to use it for algae control or parasite control. the toxins and bacteria blooms appear to be the easiest to manage when a UV sterilizer is in the mix
 
just my 2c
 
 
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Thanks! Good input.

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[R0B]

Objective 4.... I know I said I would go through my tank setup next... but before we get too far, I wanted to reiterate something I said from the start. That being it may not be necessary to use all the tools listed above, or run each tool at 100% to get the job done. The list above is nothing but a series of tools I will implement on my system and have them ready to go as and when I need to use them.

Nothing good happens quickly, and that includes adding a nutrient removal tool or taking a tool away (more so in a mature system). For example Carbon and GFO overuse can easily strip too much out of tank, so you need to be careful to add or remove it. If a coral has spent 6 months getting used to 0.3 phosphate a sudden reduction to 0.00 will certainly cause it stress. So any change needs to be done slowly (if at all. Maybe your tank looks awesome at 0.3 phospates). Whilst I mentioned I will add FM's Phos 0.04 GFO to limit the impact of stripping too much, in the future it may not be even necessary to use a phosphate remover. If I have a thriving refugium I may not need to run an ATS and/or a phosphate remover. However, as my tank is new and as the refugium matures I may discover, via testing regularly, that the refugium is not able to strip-out the nutrients sufficiently, then yes I will add another tool accordingly.

As you add (or remove) a tool the trick is to step lightly and go slowly. Starting off with a quarter of the recommended level of Phosphate remover (for example) is fine. Remember corals need stability more then anything. What you don't want to do is artificially solve a problem too quickly. You need to find a long term solution. And that will depend on your tanks maturity, character and changing needs.

My plan is to use the automated testing in conjunction with these tools to help me get the tank stable and as it grows understand which tools need to be tuned up or down. I would imagine overtime I can slowly peel away each layer, reducing the total number of tool used, but only if the tank allows me to.

I hope that makes some sense.


Do you agree? Be good to hear your views.



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[simwj]

Thank you both! Greatly appreciate it.

I actually have seachem'S cupramine, test kit and cuprasorb available at home. I did set up the qt with intention to do it. But I've not tried it with any fish and ive heard about the horrors of using copper haha.

Any tips of doing so without risking the fish and also the 2ft setup (ie; copper damaging the media and stuff). do you guys use cupramine? If so what levels? Heard fishes like flame angels don't do so well in copper..

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[soggycookies]

Thank you both! Greatly appreciate it. I actually have seachem'S cupramine, test kit and cuprasorb available at home. I did set up the qt with intention to do it. But I've not tried it with any fish and ive heard about the horrors of using copper haha. Any tips of doing so without risking the fish and also the 2ft setup (ie; copper damaging the media and stuff). do you guys use cupramine? If so what levels? Heard fishes like flame angels don't do so well in copper..  Sent from Singapore Reef Club mobile app    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

copper won’t “damage the media” unless you plan on using the same media in a system to house invertebrates like coral etc. it just means you should only use them in fish-only tanks.

 

typically for copper the dose should be 0.3~05 ppm to be effective. often when fish perish in copper-treated tanks it’s likely due to stress and poor acclimation and water quality rather than the copper itself. i’ve quarantined supposedly difficult fish like a regal angel in a copper-treated QT with no issues(see below).

remember to keep your QT well-oxygenated too. i know it’s not recommended to have airstones for saltwater, but qt systems are an exception imo. add a strong bubbler or position a wavemaker at/near the surface to create better surface agitation for better oxygen exchange if necessary.

 

also something to note: the lower the salinity, the more toxic cupramine/copper is to fish. many times the failure comes from trying to combine hyposalinity with copper treatment, in which case a typical dose of 0.5 meant for 1.020~1.026 salinity is possibly twice as strong in the reduced salinity of below 1.015. if you plan to combine the 2 methods(which i don’t recommend), i’d stick to half the cupramine dosage at maximum.

 

hope this helps

 

 

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[simwj]

I'm so sorry to spam this post. Will pm for more info meanwhile, still keeping up with the original post!

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[R0B]

Slowly the tank begins to take shape...

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[Darren Sim]

You really need to have a better camera for such a nice tank build.


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[R0B]

To carry on my build thread. Let's look what is going on under the hood, namely THE SUMP. (Be warned this is a rather long post even by my standards as I try explain why everything is placed where it is.. hopefully its helpful advice)

Do you need a sump for a successful reef tank? Nope, but it certainly makes life easier and it allows you to scale up the quality of your filtration. So when setting up my new tank I decided to make my own sump put of a 67x60cm 6mm glass tank and some 8mm semi transparent acrylic. Key considerations were:

1) Installation of an automated Roller Filter
2) Refugium (Have mechanisms to promote rotation of Cheato. A method to ensure no stray chaeto escapes into next chamber.
3) Biomedia section (ensure doesn't become a detritus trap
4) Skimmer and reactor chamber (with capability to amend water height)
5) Dual return pumps (for redundancy and flow control)
6) Adjustable float switches
7) Probe holder
8) I also have limited space 70cm by 70cm. As I wanted a seperate section for electronics.

So with these needs/constraints in mind... this is what I came up with....


Water drains from the DT into the Roller Filter. I played around with different plumbing methods, but discovered the stock flexible tubing is best. At one point it was hard plumbed with a union and a custom made adaptor, but it was really difficult to unplug for maintence, so I went back to the plumbing the roller filter originally came with.

Now, whilst the Bubble Magus roller filter can hang on the side walls I decided to build some little shelves for it to stand on within the drainage section of the sump. There are two shelves, one towards the bottom of the chamber on which the roller filter sits, and another placed at water level that catches the roller filter lip, evening out the load. That said it's amazing how strong 8mm acrylic is even when acrylic welded in place.

Probes: After a slight misadventure building a probe holding box (works really well but difficult to clean thus I wanted a maintenance free method)
I decided to drill some holes in the shelves holding the roller filter in order to secure the probes. (I have five probes currently). This way the top of each probe would always stay out of the water for longer life, whilst ensuring the probe head is always in a consistent water level. By placing the probes in this first chamber I was hoping to get a more accurate reading of tank conditions. I think alot of sump designs mean that most people place their probes directly in the return section. This is where the water is the cleanest and least representative of what is actually happening in your tank. So without placing the probes directly into the main display, placing them just after the roller filter, and before any dosing occurred felt like the right thing to do. I did some tests on probe placement and it's amazing how they can change depending on where they are placed (will write that up in a future post)

My Second Return Pump: Within the first chamber I have a return pump (skimz QP12.0 running at 30w) which powers a manifold covering my carbon reactor, UV and chiller before going back into the DT. I decided to place the second return pump here for a few reasons. Firstly I have arranged my plumbing sp that either return pump can feed my chiller and go to the DT, so if one broke down then the essentials were covered. Secondly I thought it doesn't make sense to power the manifold from the main return line once the water has been polished already. It made more sense to take the more 'dirty' water - which has only gone through the 20micron roller filter to remove the larger detritus And then feed that water through the carbon filter and the UV. I suppose it may make my carbon deplete quicker but it seems ok. The chamber also has a wave maker installed (a Jebao SW15) which helps keep the water churning away, making sure detritus doesn't settle. It switches on for 10-15 mins each hour. The SW15 is big enough to really move the water at a reasonable cost.

Water exits the first chamber via some directional outlet holes that I placed in the bottom of the wall adjoining the refugium.
I 3D printed them and thought this was a great idea to have fins move the water in a set direction, thus, promoting rhe macroalgea to rotate. Honestly I am not sure if they are very effective. I placed bubbles into the chamber and the flow was rather dismal, so I decided to add a wavemaker. I found that positioning the wavemaker near the top and pointing it downwars towards the rear wall works best (as the cheato doesn't get tangled in the blades). To help the wavemaker along I also 3D printed some curved wedges which sit either side of the refugium at the bottom, these do a good job of directing the water rotationally. Note the Refugium is/was lit by a Kessil H380 providing amble light (which stopped working... #verysad). Talking of lighting I am tempted (given the refugium is positioned towards the very end of the sump) to also light the refugium from the side. This way I won't suffer from the Cheato acting as a light barrier as it forms into a tight ball preventing the light getting into the middle (risking die off). Thinking out aloud, by simply placing a mirror on inside of the stand to bounce light into the side of the refugium could work as I could attack the cheato from both angles with just one light. hmmmm still pondering that idea, Let me know what you think?

Water builds up in the refugium (which is about 40L in Capacity) before it is eventually skimed off and cascades through a custom 3D printed filter comb into the biomedia chamber.
As the water comes through the comb, it pours onto a polyester filter pad, which catches all the detritus from the refugium. I change this pad about once every week. One bonus is that the water is aerated (degassing co2) as it falls silently on to the bio media. Note that the bio media water level is same as the skimmer section. The media is made up of 2kg of stacked maxspect biospheres. Whilst the chamber is walled it actually houses a removable acrylic box, very similar to the media caddies you get in back of IOS tanks, just a little larger. This was done to aid maintenance although I think I made it fit a little too snug as it's a fight to get it out (ooops). The box has a removable shelf at the top where the filter pad sits. It also has a removable viewing window towards the front, which not only makes sure all the water flows down through the structure but mainly is there to stop the media falling out when you remove the box.

Water then proceeds out the bottom of this box, through a hole in the bottom of the chamber wall and into the main skimmer compartment. This third chamber is where I keep my zeovit reactor, carbon reactor (fed by overhead manifold) and Skimmer. Again I have another SW15 wavemaker in the skimmer section which is used for water flow. By placing the wavemaker directly opposite of the exit from the bio chamber (all be it on the other side of the compartment, I can create some backpresure and produce a little swell within the biomedia chamber, effectively cleaning the biomedia. It acts just like a zeovit reactor, pumping water in raises and lowers the water level removing any detritus / mulm. It is great to watch the water rise up and down in the biomedia chamber knowing it is giving the media a good wash. (FYI I have the wavemakers set on random flow, at about 80% capacity and they are controlled by my GHL system, which will switch then on for 10-15mins each hour)
...Thinking of it maybe i didn't need the zeovit reactor afterall. I could just have placed the zeovit in this section instead dialed up the wavemaker to 100% and made myself a mini reactor. That said I can control flow far better with the Skimz reactor... plus the skimz zeovit reactor is so awesome I wouldn't go without it!

The water now enters the main reactor/skimmer section, my main concern was being able to get the correct water height. To control this I built my own control gate.
The gate can be lowered or raised accordingly in super fine increments. Here I can set from a min 7inch height through to a max 9.75 inches, this gives me loads of control (it is currently set at arlund 8.1 inches). In order to build this I got a replacement skimz threaded handle from one of their skimmers and used it along with a glued in threaded nut as the main means of adjustment. (Hopefully the pic allows you to see how this works)

Water flows over the adjustable gate into a bubble trap, which again uses the polyester filter pad to catch any detritus. Water goes into the bubble trap and is forced first down onto the filter pad (removing any more detritus) then it flows under a baffle before flowing up over another removable baffle. By changing water direction you remove micro bubbles. (To be fair getting correctly sized skimmer will help reduce your chances of getting micro bubbles). The water is now within the main return section.

Within the return section I have an old Jebao 6000 return pump, along with a Rossmont mover wavemaker and a maxspect bio brick I also built some adjustable water level sensor holders.
Here I have three sensors that sit attached to an acrylic rod. One sensor is used to control low water, this switches off the return pump and creates an alarm. Just above this is the second sensor that drives the ATO (which feeds into this chamber). Above this is the third high level water sensor, which switches off the skimmer (Used when you switch off the return). These were fairly easy to make and super easy to adjust.

Having both low and high water sensors will allow me to use GHL's auto water change functionality (once I update the firmware ... a future project I have planned).

As we are at the return section I thought I would mention about the return pump. As mentioned I have water flow sensors (placed just before the return nozzles at the back of the DT). I was amazed that my Jebao 6000Lhr pump gives me just 1000L out of the return nozzle. So maybe in the future I will get something a little stronger (anybody have an Abyzz 200 they dont want? Haha). So one consideration is making sure your sump has sufficient water flow through each section to cope with a bigger pump.

#Fail: So despite my efforts my sump still sucks in several ways.... Firstly because my tank is fairly deep (back to front) my sump is also reasonably deep (around 70cm), and because of all the chambers I put in, getting my hands into the back chamber is really really very hard. And unless I disconnect the return and drainage lines and pull the sump out (it does fit on rails afterall) it is only with alot of sweat and bad language that am I able to maintain those sections. It is the price you have to pay I guess. I also have had a flood, as I didn't reconnect my return to the union correctly. As mentioned (and as from the photos) my sump pulls out from the stand. So in order for this to happen the union have to sit above the height of the sump, any leak then fell onto the skirting of the sump and dripped onto the subfloor where it spread everywhere, eek!! So whilst it seemed a good idea at the time. Unions may not be the best idea. Oh well lessons learnt for the future dream build.

Anyway hope that helps.
(Next time I will get into my electrics section)

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[R0B]

Carrying on the build thread...

So with the circuit breaker behind us, and now I have some extra time on my hands (anybody hiring??) I have been busy finishing off projects on the tank. Just completed my electronics section...



Basically with some peg board from ikea, a few magnetic door clasps, and spray paint. I am hopeful that I have managed to hide the power bars and inevitable rats nest of cables in a suitably usable and accessible manner. A $15 monitor from cash converters and a $28 amazon fire tablet provide me with constant dashboards and a place to programme the GHL. Whilst some 3D printed brackets hold all the controllers.

In hindsight I would have taken a seperate cupboard and placed all my electronics there. Maybe I will move the electronics one day, until then I am hopeful this configuration will work out - would be interesting to hear your views?!

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[Darren Sim]

Very very nice and impressive! Especially with the pc monitor!


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[subxero]

Very neat setup..

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[PhytoNerd]

Very nice and impressive setup


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[R0B]

(Continuing the build series...) Keeping it all very chill.

I think one of the questions I have answered most on this forum is 'do I need a chiller?' In trying to remain positive and not add too much expense I typically advise that it's not absolutely necessary to have a chiller and there are other ways to get by. But in all honesty the truth is that you really need one. As we live on the equator unless your ambient room temperature is 27 you need one.

I also have learnt that a chiller is something that you should never undersize. A poor undersized chiller will be on literally all the time generating more and more heat as it is fights valiantly yet unsuccessfully to keep your display cool. So in having a modest 500L system I went with the Healia HS-66a which is rated upto 800L.

The chiller is placed outside of the house on a small balcony. If possible this is a good idea as all the heat the chiller generates is dispensed outside. The chiller comes on every three/four hours during the daytime and then only for no more then 20mins. (And note this is to chill a tank which sits in a room which has literally no AC). The point is the thermal mass of the water stays relatively constant and so it doesn't need much to nudge it in the right direction.

I plumbed the chiller in such a way that my little 40L salt water mixing barrel/ATO can also use the same chiller.

I simply turn the two (blue) valves which switches the tank input (to the chiller) and output (from the chiller) OFF, and then I open the two corresponding (red) valves that connect the mixing barrel to the chiller and switch on the pump in the barrel. This allows me to chill the water prior to mixing in the salt. (Tip: It is best to mix salt at cooler temps unless you want a dirty mix as the chemicals can perciperate). I ask ALEXA to set a reminder for 30 mins and also have an inkbird controller that sounds an alarm if the Main Display water temp gets too high, incase I forget to switch back to allow the tank to chill.

Within the barrel there is a 'strong' (4m head pressure) 4000L/hr pump inside (I picked up second hand for just $8). Within the barrel there is a T plumbed off the pump, one side goes to the chiller and the other acts as a closed loop within the barrel, circulating the barrels contents. On this leg of the plumbing there is another ball valve that effectively creates additional head pressure as needed, and in doing so forces more of the the water into the chiller. This comes super handy when mixing up salt.


When preparing for a water change I chill the water (typically of an evening) down to 25 and throw in a set weight of salt to get the salinity to 1.026. I leave this to mix over night and chill it once again in the morning and double check the salinity. For water changes I simply drain 40L from the main system and then orientate the valves so that the input to the chiller from my barrel is open, along with the output from the chiller to the main display. All other valves are closed. This basically pumps the water from the mixing barrel through the chiller and into my main display. Once the barrel is empty, it gets a quick clean and refilled with RODI as it serves as my ATO reservoir during the rest of the week.

For major maintenance I disconnect the chiller from the tank and run RODI with Vinegar OR citric acid through the chiller via the mixing barrel and pump. You'll be amazed how dirty things can get in the chiller. Once done I drain everything in the barrel and rinse the chiller through with a small amount of rodi before reconnecting.

I am planning in the near future to get the GHL system to control automatic water changes. Whilst I don't think I need to do too many water changes overall, i still intend to have a regular water change even if it's just amounts to 20% a month after all water changes typically solve 80% of your reefing problems. So I do intend to keep them going all be it 'little and often'. The latest GHL firmwear comes with a some auto water change options that I need to explore ... no doubt this will make for a new future project!

Until then hope this helps and happy reefing!

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[vikneshrajoo]

Super impressive build. Cant walt to see the full setup once it's up n running!

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