Phosphate Elimination Products

[woonming]

AT

Perhaps you are getting a little excited over Max's ardent support for Rowaphos vs your Contraphos K.

This "intellectual" debate is purely between you fellows and I do not have the time to engage in it. I just step in to make a quick CLARIFICATION that WE are not distributor of Rowaphos, despite how reliable your sources are, which makes me wonder, are your sources trying to spread rumours without concrete evidence?

"BULLSHIT" is Max's unique style of expression, don't get offended.

Leave EAN out of this. Thanks.

PEACE

Edmund

Not going to be drag into this , but i am confirmed that Maxima is not the distributor for ROWA products.

[lightningstrike]

i agree with roidan, max might be 2 strong for his words, but he meant well....... both max and AT stand by their relentless support of the products they believe in. at the end of the day, i believe both products r equally good. prices do differ, but not by a far fetch.

what end consumers want is always value for monies.

juz me 2 cents.

[chanbi]

Roidan, although we have never meet up before, i respect u for what u said not just for this one but in many other threads as well! Btw, you have speak for my mind too..

[robe]

Hi MAx,

I guess whether you are the distributor or not for a product, a product review that cast aspersions on other brands efficacy will have to substantiated with proofs. Right? It would be an eye opener for the folks here.

Since you have vested interest in EAN so I assumed that you are speaking in behalf of the products that EAN is selling. That will be the most logical assumption that any person will think of. Whether it is Delteq, Aquamedic or Rowaphos or any other brands claims must be substantiated otherwise most of us will think that it is a blatant from of marketing denigrating rival brands.

A straight product review would have been more appropriate with no comparisons with other brands. Then it would be treated as a personal opinion based on experience.

Since you have stated your claims in this forum the onus of proof is on you. Whether AT is business rival or not denigration of other products based on conjecture and not backed by evidence is not too ethical due to your own vested interest in a commercial venture.

Robe

[roidan]

Roidan, although we have never meet up before, i respect u for what u said not just for this one but in many other threads as well!    Btw, you have speak for my mind too..

er...thank you also

most of the time i am just *farting* around...

pooot pooot

just trying to defuse a potential explosive thread

[Maxima]

Hi MAx,

I guess whether you are the distributor or not for a product, a product review that cast aspersions on other brands efficacy will have to substantiated with proofs. Right? It would be an eye opener for the folks here.

Since you have vested interest in EAN so I assumed that you are speaking in behalf of the products that EAN is selling. That will be the most logical assumption that any person will think of. Whether it is Delteq, Aquamedic or Rowaphos or any other brands claims must be substantiated otherwise most of us will think that it is a blatant from of marketing denigrating rival brands.

A straight product review would have been more appropriate with no comparisons with other brands. Then it would be treated as a personal opinion based on experience.

Since you have stated your claims in this forum the onus of proof is on you. Whether AT is business rival or not denigration of other products based on conjecture and not backed by evidence is not too ethical due to your own vested interest in a commercial venture.

Robe

Robe & Roidan,

Make good unbiased points. Since I'm too direct in most times.......my 7years in R&D make my character lah! I'm not related to any of the Rowaphos or equivalent products as stated earlier.

If I'm the Rowaphos agent(the fact is I'm not) I wouldn;t mind runing a test against all the products out there with Phosphate Solution and throw in a Merc Test kit. No point for me to do that as I'm not the agent.

I just want to make sure everyone understand that I don't condemn on products that has industrial proof and certifications. I'll get sue for it. Other than that, any white bottle that stated this and that won't buy me off.

But I want AT to understand that the tabulation is this

Contraphos 1L =$98

Rowaohos(AT stated the $) = $148 (I do not know the local price as I order my Rowaphos in qties from overseas)

No matter if Contraphos add a 10~20% enahncer that is not Rowahos, it is still much cheaper than Rowa

This is a very objective statement.

Why is he upset...........come on man. Your product still damn cheap

I just want to close this case and as advse by my friend ->"Max, why you so stupid, you know ok liao why share and get hit"

Max

[Achilles Tang]

Hmmm... the plot thickens.

I got word from the Rowa distributor himself that you said so or had the intention to. Did he tell me it was a secret, he didn't. Is he wrong? Did you retract in the end? I have no idea. Are you parallel importing... not my problem. Perhaps he was wrong and passed wrong info to me.

Since you have clarified so hard on THIS fact, then kudos to you for washing your hands off that you have no commercial intent. But do you intend to sell Rowaphos in your shop? How about Contra K?

Regardless who sells what... let's go back to the central plot of this story.... Maxima says everything else is bullshit except for Rowaphos.

His statements need to be clarified, justified and backed up with hard proof.

The lab test results SHOULD provide the answers, and I really hope it doesn't say the word 'bullshit' next to all the analysis made for everything except Rowaphos. Coz if it doesn't, Max, don't run away until you back up everything you said. I don't mind reading 20 pages of links to 200 pages of information out there supporting what you say.

Because I am no lab tech or scientist or chemist, I am just a layman and rely on information that I read to make my own perceptions. Maxima probably does the same. The only diff is how both of us do our product reviews.

And just to clarify what I feel about Rowaphos (you can do a search on my posts)... it's the bomb man!! Love it! Rowa rocks!

... and now that there's products out there from the same manufacturer.... even better man!! Bullshit?

[Achilles Tang]

Hi MAx,

I guess whether you are the distributor or not for a product, a product review that cast aspersions on other brands efficacy will have to substantiated with proofs. Right? It would be an eye opener for the folks here.

Since you have vested interest in EAN so I assumed that you are speaking in behalf of the products that EAN is selling. That will be the most logical assumption that any person will think of. Whether it is Delteq, Aquamedic or Rowaphos or any other brands claims must be substantiated otherwise most of us will think that it is a blatant from of marketing denigrating  rival brands.

A straight product review would have been more appropriate with no comparisons with other brands. Then it would be treated as a personal opinion based on experience.

Since you have stated your claims in this forum the onus of proof is on you. Whether AT is business rival or not denigration of other products based on conjecture and not backed by evidence is not too ethical due to your own vested interest in a commercial venture.

Robe

Maxima and Edmund has already clarified that they are NOT having any commercial biasness towards Rowaphos. Let's all not hover over this issue again.

As a hobbyist, I WANT to KNOW the TRUTH OUT THERE. Like Agent Mulder, seeing is believing? I want to learn more about the facts. IF there is solid evidence out there... it must be revealed.

If Rowa is 100% better then all the other products out there and the price justifies the kudos, I'll glad part with my moolah the way I have done so in the past.

If a bullshit product is 99% of the effectiveness of Rowa, and the price justifies the hard facts, I'll have to decide if that 1% difference is worth the $$$.

Max, leaving aside the agent allegations, if I inconvenienced you, I apologize.

Let's go back to your product review... will you provide us all the evidence and proof about what you strongly stated? For the advancement of the hobby! Or are you just going to stop halfway again?

AT

[Maxima]

Maxima and Edmund has already clarified that they are NOT having any commercial biasness towards Rowaphos. Let's all not hover over this issue again.

As a hobbyist, I WANT to KNOW the TRUTH OUT THERE. Like Agent Mulder, seeing is believing? I want to learn more about the facts. IF there is solid evidence out there... it must be revealed.

If Rowa is 100% better then all the other products out there and the price justifies the kudos, I'll glad part with my moolah the way I have done so in the past.

If a bullshit product is 99% of the effectiveness of Rowa, and the price justifies the hard facts, I'll have to decide if that 1% difference is worth the $$$.

Max, leaving aside the agent allegations, if I inconvenienced you, I apologize.

Let's go back to your product review... will you provide us all the evidence and proof about what you strongly stated? For the advancement of the hobby! Or are you just going to stop halfway again?

AT

Don't worry AT, my mouth big, heart also big today is today and tomorrow is another day A good cross fire provide the excitment in SRC and this is not a bullshit forum....THE REAL STUFF So come to SRC or miss out the good stuff

Max

[Achilles Tang]

A meeting of great minds, the company of these I seek.

Truly priceless are the gems of wisdom they bring.

Just a moment of enlightenment, just an ounce of doubt removed,

A meeting of great minds is what we plebeians need.

- Anonymous.

[LinkinPark]

I enjoy factual discussion (even though I don't understand every technical details) and I hope that this thread will not stop so abruptly.

I would like to summarise the thread into the following & hope that the comparison tests among various brands can be done (as Robe's suggestion).

If the physical comparison could not proceed as it is not practical, I hope that Max can share the basis of his statement with facts, figures, test, research etc to substantiate the review.

In this way, the product review will be more robust & objective for the readers.

My summary (ie the extraction of this thread) as follows:

-------------------------- From Max --------------------------------------------

I'm only compiling base on Lab test done in German & UK. This is test base on Media type PO4 Absorbing products. Bacteria & other type not tested.

The truth that Rowaphos is patent product by Weil Industry(Rowa).

Only Rowaphos work ahead of the competition. It will reduce PO4 and Silicates.

Only Rowaphos is tested to lower Seawater lower than 0.08ppm PO4.

Non of the products can do that. - Don't believe? Use a Merc Lab test kit - U can get it at eAquanature for $250/kit

To give you an idea. 200g of Rowa outperform 1kg of item 8.

So what's the only solution? RowaPhos.

Rowa is OEM and market under different name? Not too sure.

As AT stated that the Contraphos Concentrate is the same OEM by Rowa. I'm not too sure any other new brands that is OEM by Rowa beside Rowaphos & Contraphos & 2 other brands {W%% & A%%%)? Maybe somone who knows can share?

How to know you are buying your money($) worth of Rowa base OEM products regardless of brand

Check the moisture- Rowaphos claim to have the lowest moisture. They claim other brand name add a cup of water to their products So when you buy 1L, maybe 50g are water

Don't be CON by those bullshit that the color looks different because they add enhancer Rowa is patented and has the highest rate of absorbing PO4 & silicates. So what enhancer you need? So the trick here is to mix 70~80% real Rowa and 20~30% normal coal and stated it as a enhancer

There's a review in Europe and report can be purchased at a minimal fees - NO BULLSHIT

1 Aqualine Antiphos

2 JBL PhosEx

3 Amtra Phosphat reduct

4 Rowa Rowaphos

5 Aquaconnect Contraphos

6 Seachem PhosGuard

7 Tropic Marin Elimi-Phos

8. PhosBan

9. Aquaconnect Contraphos Concentrate

10. BioPhos

11. Phos Away

Max

----------------------------From ROBE -------------------------------------------------

Hi MAx,

I guess whether you are the distributor or not for a product, a product review that cast aspersions on other brands efficacy will have to substantiated with proofs. Right? It would be an eye opener for the folks here.

Since you have vested interest in EAN so I assumed that you are speaking in behalf of the products that EAN is selling. That will be the most logical assumption that any person will think of. Whether it is Delteq, Aquamedic or Rowaphos or any other brands claims must be substantiated otherwise most of us will think that it is a blatant from of marketing denigrating rival brands.

A straight product review would have been more appropriate with no comparisons with other brands. Then it would be treated as a personal opinion based on experience.

Since you have stated your claims in this forum the onus of proof is on you. Whether AT is business rival or not denigration of other products based on conjecture and not backed by evidence is not too ethical due to your own vested interest in a commercial venture.

Robe

-----------------------------From ROBE-------------------------------------------------

Again I'm intrigued by all this review and I guess I don't have experience in using any of the phosphate eliminators or comparing them against each other. I don't test phosphates anyway...... (all I do is look at my SPS whether they are doing well or not, growing or retarded)

Max, since you have daringly put yourself in the line to preach Rowaphos why not post the test results online and let the reefers judge for themselves on the test results or better yet why not conduct a test scientifically here in Singapore.

How it may be done:

1. Create a phosphate laden container of water and have it tested by a laboratory for phosphate content

2. Measure equal volumes of the water in containers

3. Measure equal weight of phosphate remover (from the various brands available in singapore - note that the sample should be based on weight not volume)

4. Put the phospate remover media into a glass cylinder or pipe or any material that is know to be inert and does not leach phospate . The container should be equal in diameter and lenght. The bottom should have a sieve to prevent the media from dropping

5 Pour the water into the column holding the phospate remover. Please note the phospate content should be higher that what the remover can absorb for the given volume of water. ( the remover should be activated by pouring only hot deionised water - again no gas stoves should be used to heat the water)

6. The water poured through the media should be collected in a glass container again ) container must be cleaned prior to test to remove residue from surface (no detergent to be used to clean any of the containers- detergent contains organo phospates)

7. The water collected from each brand of remover should then be analysed for phosphate content.

8. the water sample that has the least amount of phospate is the winner...

Since this involve some cost, maybe the various LFS touting their products can defray the costs of the test as well as provide the sample for testing. (All media remover sample should come from a previously unopened off the shelf stock)

Robe

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Achilles Tang]

Mr Peter Peh,

I would like to stated the facts:

1.  I stated that Rowaphos is not represent by me and if you stated in your earlier message that you are getting the agent right, isn't you happy that I just reveal the truth of a good product?

?? Sorry... you are saying? Agent right? Who? Huh? Rowa? Good!!! I love it!

2. Your contraphos concentrate is 100% Rowaphos? This is questionabe from my part. You can get Aquaconnect to post their Material Content Specificaions to prove it? Or is it stated in the package - I just saw empty white bottle with no SPECIFICATIONS.

2. It's a valid question coz I was told that is 100% the same as both Rowa Phos and Contraphos gets the same product from the same manufacturer... and I guess I have to trust that my principle is telling the truth then... if they are not... Why don't we just get the lab test results published then? Share, Max, share it.

I think white bottles are the favoured bottles used by Rowa & Contra K. Stick a label on with specification and your 100% faith is there? Well... I guess so.

3. As I stated Rowa is patented and it is more effective than anything to remove PO4 & silicate, you don;t need to mix with other things. Mfgr mix with other stuffs to lower their own costs. Come on AT be objective.

Objective about what? Are you saying that Contraphos Konzentrat is a mixed product like the Contraphos 500ml silver pack? Do you have proof that this mfgr has mixed stuff in it? I really like to see the lab analysis report... share leh, Max.

4. Reports. There is a newer report available thru purchase. The one you posted is old................

Ahh... I see.. so I DID find the 'secret' lab! Then share leh, Max... share!

Anyway say what you want and as always you are right in anything you and

everything...no problem. 

I admit it's my mistake to reveal the truth on products you sell.  

Wah lau... *smash head on wall* ... there you go again... its an intellectual debate... and your 'truths'... you have not EVEN ONCE showed us a single shred of evidence to back up what you say!

IF there is TRUTH not only on Contraphos Konzentrat (pls leave the 500ml version out as we ALL KNOW NOW that it is a mixed product, courtesy of me) and the other phosphate remover brands out there is bullshit... then show us the proof! *Groan*..... so tired of repeating the same thing over and over again.

We hobbyists want to know what we put in our tanks is worth the money!!!! I'll be happy to price Contraphos K at a way lower price IF its really bullshit. % difference to Rowaphos to % $.

[Achilles Tang]

Max thanks for 'clarifying' more stuff...

I just want to make sure everyone understand that I don't condemn on products that has industrial proof and certifications. I'll get sue for it. Other than that, any white bottle that stated this and that won't buy me off.

Errr... 'everything else is bullshit' seems to be how you view the rest of the products based on 'industrial proof and certifications' that only you and you alone have that you won't share with us. If its your personal opinion how you view a certain product, then say so. The way you 'state the facts' seems to be quite the opposite of what you're trying to avoid.

But I want AT to understand that the tabulation is this

Contraphos 1L =$98

Rowaohos(AT stated the $) = $148 (I do not know the local price as I order my Rowaphos in qties from overseas).

The RRP $138 price was the stated price that the current Rowaphos Distributor has faxed to all LFS on Monday... it was recently withdrawn on the day this debate came up, undoubtedly due to the denied claims of you bringing in Rowaphos as a distributor or p. importer and undoubtedly because Contra K is launched into the market with good response. I am sure there will be a price adjustment in the market... and the winners will be the hobbyists!

No matter if Contraphos add a 10~20% enahncer that is not Rowahos, it is still much cheaper than Rowa 

This is a very objective statement.

That is NOT a very objective statement because you simply can't back it up with any evidence of your claims so far. Try to be a bit more objective about this.

Why is he upset...........come on man. Your product still damn cheap 

Duh? I am not upset. There are many other distributors out there that are more upset than me coz you say everything else except Rowaphos is bullshit. Because Contra K is supposedly similar to Rowaphos doesn't make me any less unmoved coz I am a hobbyist too and really want to know what's in every phosphate remover product because its a very vital part of reefkeeping. Cheap is relative... it can be given more value if priced within reason. I WANT to know what's in Contra K!

I just want to close this case and as advse by my friend ->"Max, why you so stupid, you know ok liao why share and get hit"

Max

"You know liao why share?" Because you love the hobby as much as we do and wish to advance the hobby by sharing vital information and knowledge without a commercial intent with fellow SRC reefers?

No one hit you what.... its just questions thrown to the proposition... did you ever not take part in the debate team at school? The winning team is the one who can back up all the arguments of a debate topic in an entirely convincing way, in the most clear way and with full logic, supported by facts.

Since you came in here with full guns blazing.... you have intrigued not only me but everyone else... you have certainly made SRC more happening again... just like the good old days.... when intellectual debates and serious discussions rule!!

I have never taken your words personally, Max, and I hope you don't too. We should be matured enough not to get our personal feelings involved since we are talking on an open topic that can be proven by hard facts & data.

Over to you, my dear opponent (debate team speak! )

[Achilles Tang]

er...thank you also

most of the time i am just *farting* around...

pooot pooot

just trying to defuse a potential explosive thread

We appreciate that you guys are concerned that this may become an explosive thread.... but as far as I am concerned, no flaming is being done by Proposition and Opposition (debate team speak)

All are free to contribute and comment, hopefully with facts and figures.

The topic says 'Factual Truth for your $ Worth'... and we are still waiting for Maxima to produce the facts so we can all switch to the best product out there... with a nice price tag of course!

[Chris]

Hey guys,

I have no vested interest in anything shop or anyone.

As a consumer, I can choose any brand for a number of reasons.

Phosguard good for low cash time.

Rowa good for high need time and when gambling luck is there.

Contra K good for its value to weight + try out purpose.

Eventually, it's the choice for consumer whether price or quality is their priority.

For whatsoever reason you guys think certain product is good, just post the findings and let hobbyists read and decide what they want and need.

Please trust that hobbyists can and will make clever decision. It's their money afterall.

[Maxima]

Mr Peter Peh,

?? Sorry... you are saying? Agent right? Who? Huh? Rowa? Good!!! I love it!

2. It's a valid question coz I was told that is 100% the same as both Rowa Phos and Contraphos gets the same product from the same manufacturer... and I guess I have to trust that my principle is telling the truth then... if they are not... Why don't we just get the lab test results published then? Share, Max, share it.

I think white bottles are the favoured bottles used by Rowa & Contra K. Stick a label on with specification and your 100% faith is there? Well... I guess so.

Objective about what? Are you saying that Contraphos Konzentrat is a mixed product like the Contraphos 500ml silver pack? Do you have proof that this mfgr has mixed stuff in it? I really like to see the lab analysis report... share leh, Max.

Ahh... I see.. so I DID find the 'secret' lab! Then share leh, Max... share!

Wah lau... *smash head on wall* ... there you go again... its an intellectual debate... and your 'truths'... you have not EVEN ONCE showed us a single shred of evidence to back up what you say!

IF there is TRUTH not only on Contraphos Konzentrat (pls leave the 500ml version out as we ALL KNOW NOW that it is a mixed product, courtesy of me) and the other phosphate remover brands out there is bullshit... then show us the proof! *Groan*..... so tired of repeating the same thing over and over again.

We hobbyists want to know what we put in our tanks is worth the money!!!! I'll be happy to price Contraphos K at a way lower price IF its really bullshit. % difference to Rowaphos to % $.

I didn't know the modern day selling and buying is base on faith?

I don;t think you have a great reef base on faith?

Everything we did to our reef is base on verification and proven methods. Each of us might use different method and u stated u sell base on fath?

If the arguement here is between a product base on faith? I've nothing to say as faith can be anything. My 1L of silicate sand can be faith to be Rowaphos.

Maybe the next customer that ask me about something, I'll say don't ask, it's faith and plse just buy?

I suggest you show us the specification of the product.

Max

[strat]

Phosguard good for low cash time.

Rowa good for high need time and when gambling luck is there.

Contra K good for its value to weight + try out purpose.

I don't think Phosguard is good even for low cash....use Phosguard migth as well save the $$$$ for something else.

[Maxima]

Hey guys,

I have no vested interest in anything shop or anyone. 

As a consumer, I can choose any brand for a number of reasons. 

Phosguard good for low cash time.

Rowa good for high need time and when gambling luck is there.

Contra K good for its value to weight + try out purpose.

Eventually, it's the choice for consumer whether price or quality is their priority.

For whatsoever reason you guys think certain product is good, just post the findings and let hobbyists read and decide what they want and need.

Please trust that hobbyists can and will make clever decision.  It's their money afterall.

Hi Chris

You can find the Rowaphos Paper Specification in the Container and there'e clear indication on it as well there's a report on the web on Rowaphos effectiveness and you can find faith in Contraphos.

________________________________________________________________

Chris's quote:

Please trust that hobbyists can and will make clever decision. It's their money afterall.

________________________________________________________________

Chris you have a very good point , too bad the seller of "faith" just get so upset. Show the specification to clear the air that's it. Beat around the bush with personal attack................

Max

[KingFish]

This thread started off as what seems to be a prequel to an actual Product Review but which has since retrograded into a slug-fest.

This thread will be closed for the time being.

PM me for clarifications.

[Achilles Tang]

Thread reopened.

Someone has something to say and I expect it to be honest, detailed, open and SIMILAR to the conversation that just took place. Over to you. And you better not disappoint me this time, Max.

Still... its good for me to address these points you made earlier:

Chris you have a very good point , too bad the seller of "faith" just get so upset. Show the specification to clear the air that's it. Beat around the bush with personal attack................

Max

Beating around the bush. It seems you're the one who's doing it.

Personal attack? everyone has eyes to read what words have been used and who said what.

I didn't know the modern day selling and buying is base on faith?

Yes and No....

No, I think a lot of people will spend days reading up to understand how a toothbrush from Colgate will work better than a toothbrush from ###### B. The design of each bristle and its tartar sweeping potential has been properly measured in a lab and computer simulated against other brands and then by actual experiments, before a spectrometer analysis of the nylon bristle is examined to determine the erosion and failure rates. People waiting for the movie to start are now given a thick document to read in place of an advertisement featuring a boy and a monster with many mouths interrupted by his mum who screams in terror... that they are using an inferior toothbrush.

Faith and Trust go together. So we are all expected to TRUST you that Rowaphos is the world's best phosphate removal product and the rest are bullshit? We are expected to TRUST you that Deltec skimmers are the best in the world and the rest are bullshit? We have to TRUST your words inspite of ZERO EVIDENCE? Do you need to be pointed out this fact point blank?

I don;t think you have a great reef base on faith?

Pretty much. I have to have faith that I will make the best decisions for my reef.

Everything we did to our reef is base on verification and proven methods. Each of us might use different method and u stated u sell base on fath?

If the arguement here is between a product base on faith? I've nothing to say as faith can be anything. My 1L of silicate sand can be faith to be Rowaphos.

Maybe the next customer that ask me about something, I'll say don't ask, it's faith and plse just buy?

Ask everyone here watching at the sidelines and involved in this thread if the one who should be providing evidence about all the allegations YOU made should be you or us. And whether you have PROVEN that you are 100% right by you PROVIDING all the facts, data and evidence. If not, DON'T ASK FOR PEOPLE'S FAITH IN YOU TO BE AUTOMATICALLY GIVEN.

I suggest you show us the specification of the product.

Max

Interesting... since you claim to have the data results already. SHOW US LAH!

There is already a test in Germany that states that Rowa/Contra is the same product and based the test results alone on the Contra sample being given. Read backwards... it has been posted up before.

Since you supposedly have another 'secret' test results that proved it otherwise... SHOW IT!!

Simply put... sarcasm in the face of people who just want you to back up your massively unsubstantiated statements won't prove anything except you have no answers & no proof.

Faith goes both ways, dude.

Anyway... going back to the subject matter.... Maxima, your words to me tonight are expected to repeated here and I will consider the matter closed once I hear it in full with sincerity. If you really mean it. What's at stake here is more important to you than to me.

[ReDDeviLs]

this thread sounds interesting,rowa or contraphos..

like AT mentioned,show us the test results.. everyone will be more than happy and thank you for the result.

Everyone knows this hobby is expensive and everyone try to get stuffs that are more value for money right?

let us see if we have spend the money on the correct stuffs bro!

[Maxima]

Thread reopened.

Someone has something to say and I expect it to be honest, detailed, open and SIMILAR to the conversation that just took place. Over to you. And you better not disappoint me this time, Max.

Still... its good for me to address these points you made earlier:

Beating around the bush. It seems you're the one who's doing it.

Personal attack? everyone has eyes to read what words have been used and who said what.

Yes and No....

No, I think a lot of people will spend days reading up to understand how a toothbrush from Colgate will work better than a toothbrush from ###### B. The design of each bristle and its tartar sweeping potential has been properly measured in a lab and computer simulated against other brands and then by actual experiments, before a spectrometer analysis of the nylon bristle is examined to determine the erosion and failure rates. People waiting for the movie to start are now given a thick document to read in place of an advertisement featuring a boy and a monster with many mouths interrupted by his mum who screams in terror... that they are using an inferior toothbrush.

Faith and Trust go together. So we are all expected to TRUST you that Rowaphos is the world's best phosphate removal product and the rest are bullshit? We are expected to TRUST you that Deltec skimmers are the best in the world and the rest are bullshit? We have to TRUST your words inspite of ZERO EVIDENCE? Do you need to be pointed out this fact point blank?

Pretty much. I have to have faith that I will make the best decisions for my reef.

Ask everyone here watching at the sidelines and involved in this thread if the one who should be providing evidence about all the allegations YOU made should be you or us. And whether you have PROVEN that you are 100% right by you PROVIDING all the facts, data and evidence. If not, DON'T ASK FOR PEOPLE'S FAITH IN YOU TO BE AUTOMATICALLY GIVEN.

Interesting... since you claim to have the data results already. SHOW US LAH!

There is already a test in Germany that states that Rowa/Contra is the same product and based the test results alone on the Contra sample being given. Read backwards... it has been posted up before.

Since you supposedly have another 'secret' test results that proved it otherwise... SHOW IT!!

Simply put... sarcasm in the face of people who just want you to back up your massively unsubstantiated statements won't prove anything except you have no answers & no proof.

Faith goes both ways, dude.

Anyway... going back to the subject matter.... Maxima, your words to me tonight are expected to repeated here and I will consider the matter closed once I hear it in full with sincerity. If you really mean it. What's at stake here is more important to you than to me.

As I stated, I buy products and test it base on specifications. After all, I'm not the Rowaphos Agent and I do not see any more value both personal or financial going on to prove that Rowaphos = Contraphos -grams to grams - content to content nor do I've the fincancial means to do a Lab Report otherwise. Let's consider this commend closed and take it as my personal "faith" base on performance & specification I tested and tried.

Max

[robe]

HI Max,

Before you tell evrybody that the case is closed and that it is personal opinion. PLease review your original post below and look closely at what you said or have written. It does not seem to be a personal review but rather an attack against other brands and allegations that has not been proven so far.

This is the post that started the issue and you might want to lay it to rest either by retracting your statements or proving it. IT is as simple as that. It is more of product preaching than an objective review.

If you need to close this thread then close it properly by addressing the issues at hand. No personal or other non relevant matters just the heart of the issue.

Robe

Original Post:

I'm only compiling base on Lab test done in German & UK. This is test base on Media type PO4 Absorbing products. Bacteria & other type not tested.

The truth that Rowaphos is patent product by Weil Industry(Rowa).

Only Rowaphos work ahead of the competition. It will reduce PO4 and Silicates.

Only Rowaphos is tested to lower Seawater lower than 0.08ppm PO4.

Non of the products can do that. - Don't believe? Use a Merc Lab test kit - U can get it at eAquanature for $250/kit

To give you an idea. 200g of Rowa outperform 1kg of item 8.

So what's the only solution? RowaPhos.

Rowa is OEM and market under different name? Not too sure.

As AT stated that the Contraphos Concentrate is the same OEM by Rowa. I'm not too sure any other new brands that is OEM by Rowa beside Rowaphos & Contraphos & 2 other brands {W%% & A%%%)? Maybe somone who knows can share?

How to know you are buying your money($) worth of Rowa base OEM products regardless of brand

Check the moisture- Rowaphos claim to have the lowest moisture. They claim other brand name add a cup of water to their products  So when you buy 1L, maybe 50g are water 

Don't be CON  by those bullshit that the color looks different because they add enhancer  Rowa is patented and has the highest rate of absorbing PO4 & silicates. So what enhancer you need?  So the trick here is to mix 70~80% real Rowa and 20~30% normal coal and stated it as a enhancer 

There's a review in Europe and report can be purchased at a minimal fees - NO BULLSHIT 

1 Aqualine Antiphos

2 JBL PhosEx

3 Amtra Phosphat reduct

4 Rowa Rowaphos

5 Aquaconnect Contraphos

6 Seachem PhosGuard

7 Tropic Marin Elimi-Phos

8. PhosBan

9. Aquaconnect Contraphos Concentrate

10. BioPhos

11. Phos Away

[Achilles Tang]

sigh.

[ReDDeviLs]

great,now we know more about some fellow reefers